Indian nuclear submarines

[tharun]

What do you think the Arihant is? For India to take its place among the defence producers of the world it must replace someone in the current order of producers. To compete against the likes of the US and France is not the place you start, knocking out Russia and China from the competition is where India can poach orders by offering low cost and reliable platforms. Once India breaks the billion dollar barrier of defence exports per year, you will see Russia and Chinese exports being taken over by India who will work their way up the value chain.

Problem is the back stabbing done by government in terms of industrial licence.
If Russia thinks indian companies can hurt their exports they will use bureaucracy to hurt companies.


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[tharun]

India already builds nuclear submarines. Leasing them from Russia at 3X the cost of a new one and to only get it for 10 years??? Any why is India buying Talwar frigates at 3X the original cost when they already make better frigates? The Gorshkov should have been the biggest scandal in India's history but no one went after it. When it comes to obvious graft Russian deals get swept under the rug but when there is no graft France gets attacked endlessly.

No one in india questions that including opposition parties because ruskies hold their dirty secrets.

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[Slevin]

India is building a deadly force of nuclear missile submarines

 

[Prashant12]

Work begins on India’s next gen nuclear-powered submarines

The INS Arihant and Chakra – on lease from Russia - are the two nuclear-powered submarines currently in service with the Navy.

Work has started on the Rs 1 lakh crore project to produce next generation nuclear-powered submarines for the Indian Navy, with a defence public sector unit working on a special alloy for the hull. A scale model is likely to be tested soon as part of the design process.

The project to build advanced nuclear submarines designed for longrange underwater patrols and armed with conventional weapons has been granted over Rs 100 crore seed money by the government for the initial phase with officials predicting a development period that is expected to stretch beyond 2025. The plan to build six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) kicked off in 2015 when the NDA government gave a go ahead to a long-pending project for the Indian Navy. Then Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba confirmed in 2017 that the project is underway.

Sources said considerable progress has been made in the design phase of the new boats with a scale model likely to be fabricated and tested shortly. These scale model tests will be critical to check development, accuracy and quick success would mean that the Directorate of Naval Design (Submarine Design Group) is on the right track.

Defence Public Sector Unit Mishra Dhatu Nigam (MIDHANI) is also working on indigenising a new material for the hull that will be designed to dive to depths much beyond the Arihant class of indigenous nuclear-powered and armed submarines. Details of the new, more powerful nuclear reactor, which is being designed for the programme are not yet known.

Sources explained that while lessons learnt from the Arihant build are being incorporated, a totally new material will be used for the SSN project given the unique requirements of the Navy for depth and speed.

The INS Arihant and Chakra – on lease from Russia - are the two nuclear-powered submarines currently in service with the Navy. The second of the Arihant class was launched in 2017 and is in advanced stage of completion. The Arihant class is armed with nuclear capable missiles and is critical to India’s second strike capability. ET first reported in March that India and Russia signed a $ 3 billion deal to lease an advanced nuclear attack submarine that will be fitted with indigenous communication systems and sensors. The deal for the submarine – being termed as Chakra III after the first two similar vessels India obtained from Russia – would involve an extensive build programme on mothballed hulls at a Russian shipyard that will be supervised by Indian Navy personnel.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...r-powered-submarines/articleshow/69921014.cms

 

[IndianHawk]

Work begins on India’s next gen nuclear-powered submarines

The INS Arihant and Chakra – on lease from Russia - are the two nuclear-powered submarines currently in service with the Navy.

Work has started on the Rs 1 lakh crore project to produce next generation nuclear-powered submarines for the Indian Navy, with a defence public sector unit working on a special alloy for the hull. A scale model is likely to be tested soon as part of the design process.

The project to build advanced nuclear submarines designed for longrange underwater patrols and armed with conventional weapons has been granted over Rs 100 crore seed money by the government for the initial phase with officials predicting a development period that is expected to stretch beyond 2025. The plan to build six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) kicked off in 2015 when the NDA government gave a go ahead to a long-pending project for the Indian Navy. Then Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba confirmed in 2017 that the project is underway.

Sources said considerable progress has been made in the design phase of the new boats with a scale model likely to be fabricated and tested shortly. These scale model tests will be critical to check development, accuracy and quick success would mean that the Directorate of Naval Design (Submarine Design Group) is on the right track.

Defence Public Sector Unit Mishra Dhatu Nigam (MIDHANI) is also working on indigenising a new material for the hull that will be designed to dive to depths much beyond the Arihant class of indigenous nuclear-powered and armed submarines. Details of the new, more powerful nuclear reactor, which is being designed for the programme are not yet known.

Sources explained that while lessons learnt from the Arihant build are being incorporated, a totally new material will be used for the SSN project given the unique requirements of the Navy for depth and speed.

The INS Arihant and Chakra – on lease from Russia - are the two nuclear-powered submarines currently in service with the Navy. The second of the Arihant class was launched in 2017 and is in advanced stage of completion. The Arihant class is armed with nuclear capable missiles and is critical to India’s second strike capability. ET first reported in March that India and Russia signed a $ 3 billion deal to lease an advanced nuclear attack submarine that will be fitted with indigenous communication systems and sensors. The deal for the submarine – being termed as Chakra III after the first two similar vessels India obtained from Russia – would involve an extensive build programme on mothballed hulls at a Russian shipyard that will be supervised by Indian Navy personnel.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...r-powered-submarines/articleshow/69921014.cms

Hmm so indegenios equipment will already be implemented and tested on akula III.

More powerful reactor than Arihant could that mean bigger size or just more power at same size.

6 SSBN + 6SSN is a very powerful combo.


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[WolfPack86]

Russia: An all weather defence partner
In March 2019, India signed an Intergovernmental Agreement (IGA) with Russia to lease another of its Akula-Class attack nuclear submarines (SSN). The nuclear submarine will join the Indian Navy in 2025, after a major refit of the hull in Russia’s Arctic port of Severodvinsk.

India had earlier leased an Akula-class SSBN from Moscow in 2012. Rechristened as Chakra in the Indian fleet, it will continue to serve the Indian Navy until the commissioning of the new Akula submarine, most likely by 2025.

The agreement has invited serious concern from Washington over New Delhi’s defence relationship with Moscow. Estranged democracies during the Cold War, Indo-US relations have strengthened significantly in the last quarter of a century. Washington has also made significant inroads into India’s defence market which was once an exclusive preserve of the Russian defence industry.



Market competition notwithstanding, the rising tensions between Washington and Moscow have pushed New Delhi into a corner. As Washington attempts to punish Russia through sanctions, it has increasingly become intolerant of India’s arms deals with Moscow. The US’ disapproval, however, will only marginally affect India’s decision-making. Indo-Russian defence cooperation, especially in the naval nuclear domain, will continue to prosper irrespective of US concerns.

In early 1966, India’s Atomic Energy Establishment started a feasibility programme on naval nuclear propulsion. Homi Bhabha initiated the programme on the expectation that the US Atomic Energy Commission (USAEC) would assist in India’s quest to develop marine propulsion. Marine propulsion, as Bhabha told USAEC officials during a February 1965 visit to Washington DC, “would demonstrate India’s impressive capabilities in the field of nuclear energy.”

Bhabha’s request was however denied by President Johnson’s Office of Science and Technology mainly on account of Admiral Rickover’s unhappiness in sharing naval reactor technology with other states. Washington’s non-proliferation policy was an additional factor. Thereupon, the programme languished for almost 15 years as India’s nuclear scientists and the Indian Naval engineers struggled to design and develop a viable reactor system for naval propulsion.


Nuclear path ::

Notwithstanding the severe shortcomings of India’s atomic energy establishment, the sanctions regime imposed after the 1974 Peaceful Nuclear Explosion made the job equally tricky. As the indigenous effort hit a technological bump by late 1970s, the Indian government turned to Moscow for assistance. In the early 1980s, Moscow agreed to help India’s indigenous nuclear submarine programme. It also acquiesced to leasing India its first nuclear submarine. It led to the beginning of Indo-Russian cooperation in naval nuclear submarines. As the fate would have it, the idea and inspiration for naval nuclear propulsion for the Indian Navy did come from technological strides made by the US; its implementation, however, was done with the help of Moscow.

Washington was never happy with the collaboration between Moscow and New Delhi on nuclear submarines. As the Indian Navy prepared to take over its first nuclear submarine from the Soviet Union in 1987, the US put immense pressure upon Moscow to defer the lease. In September 1987, the Indian naval crew arrived in the port of Vladivostok to take command of a Soviet Charlie-class nuclear submarine.

In November 1987, even when the process of transfer of the boat was almost complete, Soviet naval high command barred the Indian crew from boarding the submarine and even ordered the crew to go back. It resulted in a major diplomatic standoff between New Delhi and Moscow. TN Kaul, India’s then-Ambassador to Moscow, told Soviet Premier Ryzhkov that the “return of 100 of our personnel would not remain hidden” and this would be “injurious for Indo-Soviet relations.”

Moscow relented only after Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi’s direct intervention. However, the effect of American opposition on Soviet policy was palpable. Soon after, President Gorbachev retracted from his earlier promise to provide technical assistance to India’s indigenous nuclear submarine programme. The Charlie-class nuclear submarine was returned to the Soviet Union in early 1991 even when the Indian Navy wanted to retain the boat.

However, the US’ disapproval of the Indo-Russian nuclear submarine cooperation during the Cold War was based upon its broader policy of nuclear non-proliferation and arms control, and the need to maintain a strategic balance in South Asia. As Indo-US relations entered into a period of strategic embrace after the end of the Cold War, Washington DC largely ignored the technological partnership between New Delhi and Moscow.

In fact, during the Indo-US nuclear deal, India’s nuclear submarine programme and its relationship with Russia did not appear to have figured into American decision-making at all.

More so, because there was also a realisation in Washington DC that if it cannot provide India with such technological wherewithal, New Delhi had legitimate reasons to find other avenues.


US pressure ::

America’s current concerns are, therefore, merely a spillover of its fractured domestic debate over Russia. Even when this puts New Delhi into an awkward position, it is unlikely to give in to the US demands for revising its defense relationship with Moscow especially in the domain of naval nuclear propulsion. Continued Russian assistance is vital to India’s indigenous nuclear submarine programme. Leasing Russian nuclear submarines not only ascertain continuous technological assistance from Moscow but also provides the Indian Navy necessary operational experience.

India also has a more considerable geostrategic interest in the fray. Relentless US pressure on Russia may lead her to enter into an entente with Beijing. An independent Moscow is essential to keep Asia’s geopolitics in balance. American pressure has forced Russia to seek some alignment with China. If India gives in to American demand, it will further push the Russians into Beijing’s lap.
http://defencenews.in/article/Russia-An-all-weather-defence-partner-585608

 

[WolfPack86]

The French are likely to offer partnership in designing and building these submarines in India. France's Naval Group is currently building the Barracuda class SSNs for the French Navy

 

[ForigenSanghi]

Hmm so indegenios equipment will already be implemented and tested on akula III.

More powerful reactor than Arihant could that mean bigger size or just more power at same size.

6 SSBN + 6SSN is a very powerful combo.


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The plan is to have 4 large SSBNs (called the S5 class for now) with displacement of 13000-15000 tonnes. These would carry 12 K6 MIRV missiles with range of 8000 kms.

The arahant is like a proof of concept given that it can carry only 4 single warhead K15 missiles with range of 1600kms. It may be fine for a second strike on porks but its not really a deterrent for the chinks or others.

 

[IndianHawk]

The plan is to have 4 large SSBNs (called the S5 class for now) with displacement of 13000-15000 tonnes. These would carry 12 K6 MIRV missiles with range of 8000 kms.

The arahant is like a proof of concept given that it can carry only 4 single warhead K15 missiles with range of 1600kms. It may be fine for a second strike on porks but its not really a deterrent for the chinks or others.

K5 has range of 3500km . Arihant can carry 4 k5 .

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[Jameson Emoni]

K5 has range of 3500km . Arihant can carry 4 k5 .

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K5 has range of 5000km. It is K4 which has range of 3500km.

 

[Gessler]

The only future SLBM project beyond K4 (with MIRV & everything) that DRDO is pursuing has a planned range of 6,000+ km.

Not 5k, definitely not 3.5k

This SLBM (we can call it K5 for convenience though AFAIK it has no official name) will share a lot of tech & components with the land-based Agni 6.

 

[Armand2REP]

The French are likely to offer partnership in designing and building these submarines in India. France's Naval Group is currently building the Barracuda class SSNs for the French Navy

The offer is a nuclear Shorftin Barracuda using low enriched uranium.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

K5 has range of 3500km . Arihant can carry 4 k5 .

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Imfact, the range of k4 will be Much
higher than the range of 3500. It is for the payload of almost 2000 kg. It can travel much longer with lesser payload.

 

[Gessler]

The offer is a nuclear Shorftin Barracuda using low enriched uranium.

...you just described the Suffren-class.

On topic, as far as I know, the French cooperation in the IN SSN program will be in terms of tech, mainly these three areas:

> Sonar (spherical bow array, flank arrays, perhaps towed array)
> On-board electronics (electro-optic masts aka photonics mast mainly, could include others)
> Pumpjet propulsor (will depend on whether IN adopts it or not, if you ask me they certainly should)

I don't see much happening in the way of reactor cooperation considering the French use LEU as you said, whereas IN afaik is intent on HEU...the reactor will have to come from BARC/DAE which means it will inevitably build off of the tech absorbed from Russia for the current generation of PWRs.

 

[IndianHawk]

...you just described the Suffren-class.

On topic, as far as I know, the French cooperation in the IN SSN program will be in terms of tech, mainly these three areas:

> Sonar (spherical bow array, flank arrays, perhaps towed array)
> On-board electronics (electro-optic masts aka photonics mast mainly, could include others)
> Pumpjet propulsor (will depend on whether IN adopts it or not, if you ask me they certainly should)

I don't see much happening in the way of reactor cooperation considering the French use LEU as you said, whereas IN afaik is intent on HEU...the reactor will have to come from BARC/DAE which means it will inevitably build off of the tech absorbed from Russia for the current generation of PWRs.

The French cooperation for nuclear submarine is mere speculation. We have developed reactor for Arihant and develop one for next class ourselves.

Regarding everything else look at where we are with french help for Kaveri engine. It's a lot off air with no substance. No actual outcome.

Same way this cooperation is a hook to secure 75i project for french. In reality no actual tech will be transferred. Period.

French are good for what they sell outright. Just buy and use. Tech transfer of any kind is simply a bluff which should be called out.

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[Gessler]

The French cooperation for nuclear submarine is mere speculation.

It's a lot more than that trust me. You will see.

We have developed reactor for Arihant and develop one for next class ourselves.

The Arihant PWR would have been impossible to develop without Russian assistance, or at least would have taken much, much longer. Even the boat itself was realized thanks to Russian know-how.

India has nil knowledge base when it comes to construction of conventional double-hulled submarines (Kilos weren't built in India)...let alone nuclear ones.

Regarding everything else look at where we are with french help for Kaveri engine. It's a lot off air with no substance. No actual outcome.

Same way this cooperation is a hook to secure 75i project for french. In reality no actual tech will be transferred. Period.

Let's get the facts straight. The Kaveri JV was dropped due to one reason and one reason only - eventhough on the face of it we wish to be self-sufficient in whatever areas possible, we rarely come up with the funds necessary to back up that notion.

We wanted to be self-sufficient in a field where even China, which spends billions & billions in this field for R&D, is struggling. But India could not spare 500 million Euros to do so. We wished for the whole project to be done within the budgets earmarked for the off-sets clause - however once a project like this begins, one needs to be prepared for cost overruns if we deem the tech to be of strategic importance (which we claim it is).

In short, the Kaveri turned out to be more expensive that we could afford. And we didn't consider it important enough to release additional funds, indirectly signalling that we'd rather pay full price to import every single engine our aircraft need from abroad. That shows our priorities.

French obviously are still obligated to execute the offsets, they'll find another way to do so.

French are good for what they sell outright. Just buy and use. Tech transfer of any kind is simply a bluff which should be called out.

We're all proud of where ISRO has gotten right? And the Vikas liquid engine has been instrumental in that journey, without which PSLV, GSLV & even the current GSLV Mk-3 core stage wouldn't have been possible to build in the timeframes that we managed to develop them.

Subtract the Vikas engine from ISRO's story and see where we'd be. Now find out where Vikas' design & tech came from.

Technology transfer agreements from France have been indispensable as the most reliable (if not the only) access India gets to the cutting-edge of Western tech. Closing our eyes to these realities or acting like because we chose to not spend more money on Kaveri it is somehow France's fault isn't helping.

Yet when Russians convey to us that the agreed-on money isn't enough to execute a project (like Vikramaditya for example), we are ready to turn what was initially meant to be a $970 million acquisition into a $2.2 billion acquisition without question - and all for a rustbucket of a ship, and that too at a time when India's own carrier was already well underway in construction and another could have been ordered just as easily.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

It's a lot more than that trust me. You will see.



The Arihant PWR would have been impossible to develop without Russian assistance, or at least would have taken much, much longer. Even the boat itself was realized thanks to Russian know-how.

India has nil knowledge base when it comes to construction of conventional double-hulled submarines (Kilos weren't built in India)...let alone nuclear ones.



Let's get the facts straight. The Kaveri JV was dropped due to one reason and one reason only - eventhough on the face of it we wish to be self-sufficient in whatever areas possible, we rarely come up with the funds necessary to back up that notion.

We wanted to be self-sufficient in a field where even China, which spends billions & billions in this field for R&D, is struggling. But India could not spare 500 million Euros to do so. We wished for the whole project to be done within the budgets earmarked for the off-sets clause - however once a project like this begins, one needs to be prepared for cost overruns if we deem the tech to be of strategic importance (which we claim it is).

In short, the Kaveri turned out to be more expensive that we could afford. And we didn't consider it important enough to release additional funds, indirectly signalling that we'd rather pay full price to import every single engine our aircraft need from abroad. That shows our priorities.

French obviously are still obligated to execute the offsets, they'll find another way to do so.



We're all proud of where ISRO has gotten right? And the Vikas liquid engine has been instrumental in that journey, without which PSLV, GSLV & even the current GSLV Mk-3 core stage wouldn't have been possible to build in the timeframes that we managed to develop them.

Subtract the Vikas engine from ISRO's story and see where we'd be. Now find out where Vikas' design & tech came from.

Technology transfer agreements from France have been indispensable as the most reliable (if not the only) access India gets to the cutting-edge of Western tech. Closing our eyes to these realities or acting like because we chose to not spend more money on Kaveri it is somehow France's fault isn't helping.

Yet when Russians convey to us that the agreed-on money isn't enough to execute a project (like Vikramaditya for example), we are ready to turn what was initially meant to be a $970 million acquisition into a $2.2 billion acquisition without question - and all for a rustbucket of a ship, and that too at a time when India's own carrier was already well underway in construction and another could have been ordered just as easily.

Everything what you said was right but regarding ins vikramaditya, I think that ship is practically a new ship today and can serve for more than twenty years.
That ship is now in Ocean, so I will not say it is junk ship.

 

[Kshithij]

The Arihant PWR would have been impossible to develop without Russian assistance, or at least would have taken much, much longer. Even the boat itself was realized thanks to Russian know-how.

Are you sure? How long did it take for the first country to develop PWR? Now considering India already had PHWR,how long will it take to miniaturise? Arihant started in 1998. It launched in 2016. Is this short? Don't exaggerate.

India has nil knowledge base when it comes to construction of conventional double-hulled submarines (Kilos weren't built in India)...let alone nuclear ones.

Are you saying India can't reverse engineer Kilo class hull and learn? Again, you are arbitrarily undermining Indian minds. FYI, India already has ability to overhaul and refurbish Kilo class submarine.

Kaveri JV was dropped due to one reason and one reason only - eventhough on the face of it we wish to be self-sufficient in whatever areas possible, we rarely come up with the funds necessary to back up that notion.

Nonsensical. India has paid several billions for trivial things like Apache helicopters and paying that for Kaveri was difficult? This is illogical argument.

Subtract the Vikas engine from ISRO's story and see where we'd be. Now find out where Vikas' design & tech came from.

Vikas engine was made originally from French engine. But it was just learning from it. There is a reason why India made this agreement with France in 1970 but was able to launch only 80kg satellites in 1980s. India launched real satellite in 1994. 24 years to learn from technology transfer is too much. So, think again about foreign assistance in Vikas engine. India developed the high power engine capable of carrying large satellites indigenously. Cryogenic engine was however, obtained from Russia

Everything what you said was right but regarding ins vikramaditya, I think that ship is practically a new ship today and can serve for more than twenty years.
That ship is now in Ocean, so I will not say it is junk ship.

Everything he said is right? Look at the loopholes I pointed out.

I won't reply unless my questions are answered consistently. I am exiling myself from this forum and will only lurk here reading posts. I will only comment to point out loopholes when someone speaks glaring fake news in overconfident tone. See ya

 

[Gessler]

Are you sure? How long did it take for the first country to develop PWR? Now considering India already had PHWR,how long will it take to miniaturise? Arihant started in 1998. It launched in 2016. Is this short? Don't exaggerate.

You appear misinformed regarding the reactor story. Please read in full:

https://www.rbth.com/blogs/stranger...usia-helped-deliver-indias-baby-boomer_533849

Additionally, none of the data regarding timeline of Arihant in public domain is accurate for obvious reasons.

Are you saying India can't reverse engineer Kilo class hull and learn?

We aren't China.

For obvious reasons we will not do anything that violates end-user agreements between buyer & seller unless in extraordinary circumstances.

Again, you are arbitrarily undermining Indian minds. FYI, India already has ability to overhaul and refurbish Kilo class submarine.

FYI, India sends the Kilos to Russia for refits....after HSL decided to cut open INS Sindhukirti, screwed around for NINE YEARS with the sub in dock because they couldn't figure it out, and finally gave up and asked Russians to send workers here to finish the work.

Since then, lesson learnt, IN sends all its Kilo-class boats to Russia for their refits, which when done with the proper procedure (which Russians haven't shared with us), is usually done in a period of 2-3 years maximum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Sindhukirti_(S61)

https://www.rbth.com/economics/defe...n-shipyard-repairs-indian-sub-in-india_582423

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...lass-submarine-refit/articleshow/49425464.cms

Nonsensical. India has paid several billions for trivial things like Apache helicopters and paying that for Kaveri was difficult? This is illogical argument.

It is the fact:

"....ET has learnt that DRDO did not find this price reasonable and is no longer considering the upgraded Kaveri engine for the next batch of 83 LCAs to be made in India or the Mark-2 version of the jet planned in the near future. "

Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/70684809.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

If you don't wish to believe it, that's your problem.

Vikas engine was made originally from French engine. But it was just learning from it. There is a reason why India made this agreement with France in 1970 but was able to launch only 80kg satellites in 1980s.

A rocket is more than a engine.

India developed the high power engine capable of carrying large satellites indigenously. Cryogenic engine was however, obtained from Russia

All the non-cryogenic liquid motors used by ISRO on all existing launch vehicles...

> PSLV 2nd stage
> GSLV Mk-II 2nd stage
> GSLV Mk-III core stage (2 x engines)

...are all powered by Vikas derivatives. I don't know which other imaginary non-cryogenic liquid engine developed indigenously you're talking about.

To be noted is the fact that nowhere I have stated India could not have developed these engines by ourselves if given enough time (like we did with the cryogenic engines), but that doing things this way will take much, much longer than developing off of foreign assistance wherever available.

 

[IndianHawk]

It's a lot more than that trust me. You will see.



The Arihant PWR would have been impossible to develop without Russian assistance, or at least would have taken much, much longer. Even the boat itself was realized thanks to Russian know-how.

India has nil knowledge base when it comes to construction of conventional double-hulled submarines (Kilos weren't built in India)...let alone nuclear ones.



Let's get the facts straight. The Kaveri JV was dropped due to one reason and one reason only - eventhough on the face of it we wish to be self-sufficient in whatever areas possible, we rarely come up with the funds necessary to back up that notion.

We wanted to be self-sufficient in a field where even China, which spends billions & billions in this field for R&D, is struggling. But India could not spare 500 million Euros to do so. We wished for the whole project to be done within the budgets earmarked for the off-sets clause - however once a project like this begins, one needs to be prepared for cost overruns if we deem the tech to be of strategic importance (which we claim it is).

In short, the Kaveri turned out to be more expensive that we could afford. And we didn't consider it important enough to release additional funds, indirectly signalling that we'd rather pay full price to import every single engine our aircraft need from abroad. That shows our priorities.

French obviously are still obligated to execute the offsets, they'll find another way to do so.



We're all proud of where ISRO has gotten right? And the Vikas liquid engine has been instrumental in that journey, without which PSLV, GSLV & even the current GSLV Mk-3 core stage wouldn't have been possible to build in the timeframes that we managed to develop them.

Subtract the Vikas engine from ISRO's story and see where we'd be. Now find out where Vikas' design & tech came from.

Technology transfer agreements from France have been indispensable as the most reliable (if not the only) access India gets to the cutting-edge of Western tech. Closing our eyes to these realities or acting like because we chose to not spend more money on Kaveri it is somehow France's fault isn't helping.

Yet when Russians convey to us that the agreed-on money isn't enough to execute a project (like Vikramaditya for example), we are ready to turn what was initially meant to be a $970 million acquisition into a $2.2 billion acquisition without question - and all for a rustbucket of a ship, and that too at a time when India's own carrier was already well underway in construction and another could have been ordered just as easily.

France sold tot for basic rocket engine outright as others ( Ukraine , Russia )were ready to do the same and it wasn't that difficult to develop .

France has never provided any tech for which there was no alternative provider or was not within our grasp.

Case in example french didn't gave cryogenics.
Neither they were ready to help in nuke submarine reactor design or supersonic missile.
French only offer tot for what is already in the world market.

Russian helped us with submarine design. they were the consultant . But once we have made Arihant reactor we can scale it up on our own. Just like all major nuclear powers have done .



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