F-18 Advanced Super Hornet

[Immanuel]

F18 hornet first flight was in 1978. The super hornet first flight was in 1995. But, the design and airframe was of 1970s itself. The airframe is metallic. The plane is a contemporary of F16 and F15 in terms of design generation.

It is better to use Su30 MKI than F18SH. The F18 is anyways incapable of taking flight from a STOBAR carrier of India. There is no point using it as IAF plane when we have Su30MKI which is made in India

Even the old F-18 Hornet has 40% of the surface area covered with grapite epoxy composite materials which is about 9.9% of the weight, this amount increased significantly in the SH. While I do agree that Rafale, EF, Gripen have more percent of the aircraft in composites. It shouldn't be that hard to have even more composites on the SH during MLU. Current oldest SH's which will begin undergoing SLEP to 10000hr are also expected to recieve newer materials since now Boeing knows exactly how the airframe wears over 6000hrs of gruelling operations over a fleet of more than 500 hrs.

The SH is a massive evolution over the Hornet, there are significant design differences. The airframe is 25% larger, range is over 35% more, useful load is significantly higher. They are quite different aircraft.

As for ability to take off from STOBAR, well Boeing has recieved the RFP and they have done many simulations of take offs and landing on STOBAR, they seem to be confident to able to do it. Only trials will tell. For the IN between Rafale and SH, SH is a better fit since wings can fold, the aircraft is proven to be cheaper to operate than any other TE aircraft and comes ready with proven sensors and weapons.

 

[Immanuel]

WHy would you choose between F16 and F18? Aren't you supposed to choose between F18 and Su30 MKI? F18 has MToW of 30-31T whereas F16 has MToW of 19T. Su30 has MToW of 38T. Also, F18 is not suitable for STOBAR carrier. For India, choice is between Su30 MKI which is made in India and F18 which is made in India with an assembly offer

Why would you choose between an MKI or SH, MKI production is coming to an end, all that remains for that program is a comprehensive overhaul and MLU upgrade program.

F-18 SH is in contention for IN's 57 aircraft requirement and they may participate in the IAF's contest and it should. MKI is not going to fly off any STOBARs.

 

[Kshithij]

Even the old F-18 Hornet has 40% of the surface area covered with grapite epoxy composite materials which is about 9.9% of the weight, this amount increased significantly in the SH. While I do agree that Rafale, EF, Gripen have more percent of the aircraft in composites. It shouldn't be that hard to have even more composites on the SH during MLU. Current oldest SH's which will begin undergoing SLEP to 10000hr are also expected to recieve newer materials since now Boeing knows exactly how the airframe wears over 6000hrs of gruelling operations over a fleet of more than 500 hrs.

The SH is a massive evolution over the Hornet, there are significant design differences. The airframe is 25% larger, range is over 35% more, useful load is significantly higher. They are quite different aircraft.

As for ability to take off from STOBAR, well Boeing has recieved the RFP and they have done many simulations of take offs and landing on STOBAR, they seem to be confident to able to do it. Only trials will tell. For the IN between Rafale and SH, SH is a better fit since wings can fold, the aircraft is proven to be cheaper to operate than any other TE aircraft and comes ready with proven sensors and weapons.

Why would you choose between an MKI or SH, MKI production is coming to an end, all that remains for that program is a comprehensive overhaul and MLU upgrade program.

F-18 SH is in contention for IN's 57 aircraft requirement and they may participate in the IAF's contest and it should. MKI is not going to fly off any STOBARs.

F18 has only 10% composite which can't cover 40% of area unless it is just a coating like RAM. It is not that RAM coating can make even MiG21 a stealth fighter.

Next, F18 can't fly from a STOBAR and hence it is only being advertised for MMRCA 2 deal of 110 planes. So, Su30 is a perfect contender and a challenger to F18, F15. There is no reason to reject Su30 to buy F18.

Until, F18 has been proven to fly from a 200m STOBAR with sufficient load, I would not call it fit. Till that time, I would consider it impossible for F18 to fly from STOBAR. So, I won't accept that it can be used in Navy's carriers

 

[Immanuel]

F18 has only 10% composite which can't cover 40% of area unless it is just a coating like RAM. It is not that RAM coating can make even MiG21 a stealth fighter.

Next, F18 can't fly from a STOBAR and hence it is only being advertised for MMRCA 2 deal of 110 planes. So, Su30 is a perfect contender and a challenger to F18, F15. There is no reason to reject Su30 to buy F18.

Until, F18 has been proven to fly from a 200m STOBAR with sufficient load, I would not call it fit. Till that time, I would consider it impossible for F18 to fly from STOBAR. So, I won't accept that it can be used in Navy's carriers

SH has 19% in composites and they use it as a protective layer in the Block 2, Block 3 SH will have more.
The SH as per Boeing can take off from our STOBAR, it is upto them to prove so during trials and AFAIK IN knows what it wants, as said only trials will tell. Boeing won't waste time and money, sunk costs in a deal where they can't even do the basics during trials. Rafale can't fly from STOBAR either, we assume it can but it has never shown this ability so save your nonsense for after trials.

https://www.livemint.com/Companies/...s-Super-Hornet-in-latest-twist-to-air-fo.html
That jet is a finalist for the Indian navy’s $8 billion to $9 billion contract for 57 fighters.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...compatible-with-indian-navy-ski-jump-carriers
As per Boeing, even a Block 2 as is today can operate from IN's carriers, we obviously have Block 3 on offer with all the airframe, avionics & engine upgrades.

F-18SH is fully particpating in the IN's deal for 57 aircraft, what are you on about? They will throw in the hat for IAF's deal as well, why shouldn't they when they have a great reliable product with a massive user base and great combat proven avionics. A combined IAF, IN order and engine commonality with Tejas MK-2 alone would save billions in costs over a life time.

 

[Kshithij]

SH has 19% in composites and they use it as a protective layer in the Block 2, Block 3 SH will have more.
The SH as per Boeing can take off from our STOBAR, it is upto them to prove so during trials and AFAIK IN knows what it wants, as said only trials will tell. Boeing won't waste time and money, sunk costs in a deal where they can't even do the basics during trials. Rafale can't fly from STOBAR either, we assume it can but it has never shown this ability so save your nonsense for after trials.

https://www.livemint.com/Companies/...s-Super-Hornet-in-latest-twist-to-air-fo.html
That jet is a finalist for the Indian navy’s $8 billion to $9 billion contract for 57 fighters.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...compatible-with-indian-navy-ski-jump-carriers
As per Boeing, even a Block 2 as is today can operate from IN's carriers, we obviously have Block 3 on offer with all the airframe, avionics & engine upgrades.

F-18SH is fully particpating in the IN's deal for 57 aircraft, what are you on about? They will throw in the hat for IAF's deal as well, why shouldn't they when they have a great reliable product with a massive user base and great combat proven avionics. A combined IAF, IN order and engine commonality with Tejas MK-2 alone would save billions in costs over a life time.

The IN 57 aircraft is likely to be Mig29K or MiG35. I won't speak more about F18 taking off from STOBAR as I am convinced that it needs 400m runway and that 200m of Indian carriers are not enough. Until, it is proven, I won't agree anything else.

About IAF, there is no point contending with Su30 which is made in India and India has all the needed manufacturing inhouse

 

[asianobserve]

Superhornet maneuverability demo with 6,500 lbs. loadout

 

[Kshithij]

Superhornet maneuverability demo with 6,500 lbs. loadout

Hiw much internal fuel was filled? F18 has 6.5ton fuel capacity. The empty weight is 14.5tons with 2 F414 engines. So, if the fuel was full 6.5tons and there was 3 ton of extra loadout, the weight totaling 24tons, then this is something to speak of. IfIf internal fuel is not full, then this is no big feat.

 

[asianobserve]

Nice loadout - 10 x 1,000 lbs + 2 AIM9x + 412 20mm rounds + 480 gallon centerline tank. But only feasible on a CATOBAR carrier and land based take off.

 

[asianobserve]

Hiw much internal fuel was filled? F18 has 6.5ton fuel capacity. The empty weight is 14.5tons with 2 F414 engines. So, if the fuel was full 6.5tons and there was 3 ton of extra loadout, the weight totaling 24tons, then this is something to speak of. IfIf internal fuel is not full, then this is no big feat.

It would be safe to assume that the superhornet had 50% fuel for that demo both internal and external.

 

[Kshithij]

It would be safe to assume that the superhornet had 50% fuel for that demo both internal and external.

Then it is no big deal. The twin 98kN engines, totaling 196kN is more than enough to make 20ton plane maneuver well. Tejas with single 85kN engine and full fuel weighs over 9tons and maneuvers well.

 

[BON PLAN]

The airframe is 25% larger, range is over 35% more,

Yes for the bigger airframe.

The second affirmation is doubtfull.
+35% was the initial requirement, but SH suffer a lot of aerodynamic problems during the dev. phase (see for exemple the external charges already in a "V" shape : more drag. It was the sole solution to prevent unanticipated problem of stores releases). Finally the real range is smaller than the initial goal.

The SH was seen by the designers as a "simple" and quite easy extrapolation of F18, but it didn't work so easily.

 

[BON PLAN]

The IN 57 aircraft is likely to be Mig29K or MiG35.

LOL

 

[Kshithij]

LOL

Why the evil laugh?

 

[BON PLAN]

Why the evil laugh?

Because nor the Mig29 nor the Mig35 will be chosed.

 

[Sancho]

Kuwait finalise Block 3 order

 

[WolfPack86]

Sancho what is the cost of each F-18 Advanced Super Hornet which is Kuwait procuring?.

 

[Sancho]

Sancho what is the cost of each F-18 Advanced Super Hornet which is Kuwait procuring?.

=>

Boeing awarded $1.5B contract for Super Hornet aircraft for Kuwait

Boeing has been awarded a $1.5 billion contract by the U.S. Navy for the production and delivery of 22 F/A-18E and six F/A-18F Super Hornets for the government of Kuwait.

The deal, announced Wednesday by the Department of Defense, comes under the terms of a fixed-price-incentive-firm contract...

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/20...net-aircraft-for-Kuwait/4401530191737/?spt=su

 

[Kshithij]

=>


https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/20...net-aircraft-for-Kuwait/4401530191737/?spt=su

Less than $70 million per plane is a surprise.

 

[Sancho]

Less than $70 million per plane is a surprise.

That are the known costs so far, but the "fixed-price-incentive-firm contract" might suggest some concessions.

 

[BON PLAN]

Less than $70 million per plane is a surprise.

That are the known costs so far, but the "fixed-price-incentive-firm contract" might suggest some concessions.

It's a contrat from US navy, not from Kuwait.
So it's possible this amount is only for the long lead time items (engines, radars, landing gear...).