China vetoes Indias loan application at the ADB

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Yusuf, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    8,708
    Likes Received:
    18,314
    China rebukes ADB over India fund

    China has rebuked the Asian Development Bank (ADB) for funding a project in the disputed Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh, which is claimed by Beijing.

    The Chinese government said the bank had "tarnished" its name with the move.

    A bank spokesperson told the AFP news agency that it was not taking sides in the territorial dispute.

    The north-eastern state of Arunachal Pradesh is at the centre of a long-standing border dispute, which Beijing claims as its own territory.

    The $60m (£36.5m) loan is for a flood-management programme in Arunachal Pradesh and is part of a three-year lending programme for India from the ADB worth a total $2.9bn. (£1.7bn)

    "China has expressed strong discontent. The action can neither change the fact that China and India have a huge territorial controversy, nor China's fundamental position on the border issues between China and India," a foreign ministry spokesman told a news conference on Thursday.

    The ADB said that the organisation's charter stated that only economic considerations - and not political affairs - should be relevant to its decisions, the AFP news agency reported.

    Ties between China and India - who fought a brief border war in 1962 - have improved lately, with both sides saying that they are eager to expand trade.
    BBC NEWS/south Asia/19-June-2009

    Now china will dictate free business institutions how to work.
    This is so pathetic. Chines mentality to think that world is like a public swimming pool where balder control is optional; is going to be a big misadventure for long run.
     
  2. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    8,708
    Likes Received:
    18,314
    To Khoji:India is a democracy and opinions here can change after 5 year. India is ruled by Indians not by indian govt. If china will remain stubborn on this issue then it wont take long for Indians to change govt., opinions and so called affirmations to guard their own interest. At that time it would be chines call to stick with its day dream or to face ever growing India.
    Regards
     
  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,292
    Likes Received:
    11,500
    Location:
    BANGalore
    No OT discussions here please. If people want to discuss Tibet, then there is a separate thread for it. Any further violation of rules will result in this thread being closed permanently.
     
  4. RPK

    RPK Indyakudimahan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,931
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    13° 4'60.00"N 80°16'60.00"E
    Arunachal asks New Delhi to firm up stand against Chinese claims

    Arunachal asks New Delhi to firm up stand against Chinese claims - India - NEWS - The Times of India

    ITANAGAR: The government in the frontier state of Arunachal Pradesh on Tuesday urged New Delhi to act tough on Chinese claims over the state and
    snub Beijing's opposition to Dalai Lama's proposed visit to the region.

    "Chinese claims over Arunachal Pradesh are simply baseless and not correct. Arunachal Pradesh is an integral part of India and would continue to do so," Arunachal Pradesh chief minister Dorjee Khandu said.

    Beijing in 2003 gave up its territorial claim over the Indian state of Sikkim but still holds on to its stand that nearly all of Arunachal Pradesh belongs to it.

    The mountainous state of Arunachal Pradesh shares a 1,030 km unfenced border with China.

    "The government of India should be more assertive and make its stand on Arunachal Pradesh very clear to China. New Delhi needs to make a bold statement about frequent Chinese claims," Takam Sanjay, a ruling Congress party MP from Arunachal Pradesh, said.

    The reaction of Arunachal Pradesh lawmakers comes at a time when there are allegations of a Chinese intrusion in Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir, besides similar apprehensions from the chief minister of Uttarakhand state that shares a border with China.

    China last week raked up a controversy asking India not to allow Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama to visit Arunachal Pradesh in November.

    Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Jiang Yu said: "We firmly oppose Dalai visiting the so-called 'Arunachal Pradesh'."

    The Dalai Lama is scheduled to visit the Tawang monastery in Arunachal Pradesh, bordering China, besides capital Itanagar.

    "China has no business to interfere with the Dalai Lama's proposed visit to Arunachal Pradesh. We welcome the Dalai Lama's visit and will ensure that his trip is successful," Sanjay said.

    "Let it be known to Beijing that Dalai Lama is a spiritual leader of the world and can visit any part of the world without Beijing's nod."

    It is through Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh that in 1959 the Dalai Lama escaped the Chinese to enter India.

    The India-China border along Arunachal Pradesh is separated by the McMahon Line, an imaginary border now known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC).

    India and China fought a border war in 1962, with Chinese troops advancing deep into Arunachal Pradesh and inflicting heavy casualties on Indian troops.

    The border dispute with China was inherited by India from British colonial rulers, who hosted a 1914 conference with the Tibetan and Chinese governments that set the border in what is now Arunachal Pradesh.

    China has never recognised the 1914 McMahon Line and claims 90,000 sq km, nearly all of Arunachal Pradesh. India also accuses China of occupying 8,000 sq km in Kashmir.

    After 1962, tensions flared again in 1986 with Indian and Chinese forces clashing in Sumdorong Chu valley of Arunachal. Chinese troops reportedly built a helipad in the valley leading to fresh skirmishes along the borders.
     
  5. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    8,708
    Likes Received:
    18,314
    China strikes back on Arunachal:(:)(:)(:)((
    Barely weeks after it failed in its attempt to block Asian Development Bank (ADB) funds to a project in Arunachal Pradesh, China has successfully struck back.

    Last month, in a development New Delhi has been quiet about, China won a vote on a “disclosure agreement,” which prevents ADB from formally acknowledging Arunachal Pradesh as part of India. (A disclosure agreement is a formal notification of a project once it’s approved by the ADB Board).

    On June 16, India had successfully isolated China — the entire ADB Board except Beijing had voted in India’s favour — and secured approval for its $2.9-billion country plan. China had raised objections to the plan because it included $60-million projects in Arunachal Pradesh. It argued that ADB cannot fund projects in “disputed areas” like Arunachal Pradesh.
    Clearly, China did not give up after that defeat and the reversal is symptomatic of its growing clout. It’s learnt that India lost the vote despite US and most of the Western bloc voting in India’s favour. In what was relatively a narrow margin, the scales were tilted in China’s favour by Japan, Australia and a group of other South East Asian countries. Despite US support, India was also surprised by the fact that Australia chose to go with China. Pakistan, of course, also went with China.

    In particular, sources said, the role of Japan has come as a shock to India. Being the current chair of the ADB board, Japan allowed the matter to be put to vote.



    Once that happened, Japan backed China indicating a shift in its political approach.

    It now transpires that since the first vote where China was humiliated, it left no stone unturned in increasing pressure on South East Asian countries, and Japan and South Korea.

    The defeat has caused considerable concern in official circles here. One view is that India should not take the $60 million meant for projects in Arunachal Pradesh. It’s quite possible that India will not use ADB funding for the state. In future, sources said, India will also have to be careful when it lists projects in “sensitive areas” for external funding.

    The more serious ramification is diplomatic. There is a view that after the June 16 victory, India didn’t anticipate the Chinese response and so did not plan its lobbying as well as it did the first time. Incidentally, before the June vote, India had sent demarches to all 66 countries represented at the ADB.

    China strikes back on Arunachal

    when these fat @$$ Indian politician snakes will wake up.
    I think foreign affair minister should resign and India should call back its ambassadors from all these countries. We should consider this action of china as clear hostility against Indian sovereignty.
    I will raise my voice and(already channelised) demand clarification on this per my Right of information on this particular Foreign policy failure.
     
  6. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    28
    i think India has accepted the defeat.
    China Plays Hardball as ADB/India Loan Row Continues | 2point6billion.com - Foreign Direct Investment in Asia
    In response, India has stated that it will no longer seek international financing for the development of sensitive border areas and will finance from internal resources. “There is always an element of uncertainty in international funding, whereas there is certainty with internal funding, External Affairs Minister S.M Krishna stated. “It is now a conscious decision by India to raise funds internally in sensitive areas via internal means.”
    ---------------------
    India has to put efforts to block the chinese development of dam in POK. if Arunchal is claimed by China then POK is claimed by India. China should not intefere in a disputed territory between India & Pakistan.
     
  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,931
    Likes Received:
    14,646
    Ajay India has not made the claim on POK,a tit for tat with Pakistan may also result in further humiliation with China backing Pakistan.
     
  8. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    8,708
    Likes Received:
    18,314
    what a pity on Idiot FA minister how dare he can talk like this. The nations supporting china are telling us that AP is not integral part of India. Its not about international funding or money. We have sufficient money to develop AP it was all about world's perception on what we claim about AP and this Govt. has done the shit three times within 3 months. 1. Baluchistan dossier. 2. Postponing meeting yesterday on chines incursion 3. above posted.

    This govt was very proactive when elections were near, now they just want to play safe and enjoy the next 3-4 years of their rule in luxury.
    It was this buffoon FA minister's call to postpone that meeting where all three generals where supposed to chair for the same.
     
  9. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    28
    India objects to Pak’s dam plan in PoK
    India objects to Pak?s dam plan in PoK- Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times
    It has to be openly discussed with chinese. if ADB cannot fund in disputed regions then why China is building dam in POK.
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,931
    Likes Received:
    14,646
    China maybe doing it thru soft loans just to spite India.
     
  11. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    28
    the best way to show middle finger to China is get funding from western countries. Its not about the money but its about the recognition. force US to provide funding to the Arunachal project. let India pay as much as interest rate as US asks for but it doesn't matter.
     
  12. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    8,708
    Likes Received:
    18,314
    ^^^ protest with Pakistan???, this what Indians can do. Pakistani ears are functionally deaf for Indian protests.
     
  13. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    28
    very much possible. it would difficult that Pakistan can get any easy long term funding considering their situation right now. China or western govts would be their only option. if world bank is funding the project then it gives india a chance to get support and block the loan.
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,931
    Likes Received:
    14,646
    USA may not want to upset China since they are a large US debt holder, and Obama administration is not the type of administration to make any bold moves.
     
  15. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,931
    Likes Received:
    14,646
    funding dosen't seem to be an issue at all for Pakistan they are more or less ready to go
     
  16. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,418
    Likes Received:
    979
    What a gaffe this is! Do we lack such moral spine, such basic foresight? If we could get our way the first time by lobbying other countries via demarches, we could get our way the second.


    Incidentally, this leaves no doubt as to Chinese intentions on Arunachal Pradesh.


    The news appears to have been disclosed on Aug 24th. But a perusal of all the other major Indian, Chinese and ADB-related news websites reveals nothing. There also seems to be no official act from diplomatic sources that would indicate a translation of this statement to foreign policy. And I'm solicitous about trusting one source entirely that is "a news and commentary forum" "run by a corporate foreign investment and tax firm".
     
  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,931
    Likes Received:
    14,646
    of all these scenarios you presented Indian scenario has the least leverage.
     
  18. Koji

    Koji New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    1
    There you go, Japan and China cooperate one more issues than most issues believe.
     
  19. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,418
    Likes Received:
    979
    Note also that this marks the first time that China has sought to influence the territorial dispute through a multilateral institution. A newfangled flexing of muscles by China calls for a renewed flexing of muscles on our part. The loan is only partially destined for development work in Arunachal Pradesh, the balance of the 2.9 billion $ being destined for development work elsewhere.

    From the military aspect, however we seem to be taking no chances: Tawang has been declared an integral part of India, and a huge military buildup is underway. From eyewitness accounts: "Army trucks have been hauling howitzers along rutted mountain roads. Soldiers drill in muddy fields. Military bases appear every half-mile in the countryside, with watchtowers rising behind concertina wire".

    Note now the irony of the Chinese claim to Arun'aachal Pradesh: the Chinese are claiming Tawang on behalf of the Tibetan people- as an 'annex' of the 'South Tibetan plateau', and "that since the sixth Dalai Lama was born in Tawang and is dear to the sentiments of the Tibetans, Tawang must be incorporated into Tibet". Note also the Chinese vacillation and the creation of new claims over 'disputed territory' - fallacious claims based on nothing more than 'geographic contiguity' and rendered specious and laid bare by the fact that Tibetan monks, members of the Buddhist clergy, and aides closest to the Dalai Lama have every single one of them denied this as a fake empiricist argument.

    A brief history lesson for all the Chinese, China-sympathizers, and Japanese-'disguised' Chinese: In 2003, the Chinese indicated that if India fully recognized Tibet as part of China, the latter would accord recognition to India's sovereignty over Sikkim. Throughout history. the Chinese have made a pretense of the impression that "if India made concessions on the western sector, they would make concessions on the eastern front". That has been proven casuistic and demonstrated for what is when India signed on the Tibet issue, but China did not honour its end of the bargain on Sikkim.

    The Dalai Lama and the official Government of Tibet in exile have officially declared Tawang to be a part of India, rendering null and void any claims to sovereignty on their behalf or on behalf of the Tibetan people to that end.

    The 2005 Indo-China agreement on 'Modalities to Resolve the boundary dispute' has a clause that "settled populations would not be disturbed". Although the agreement was jointly formulated, the Chinese are reneging on the clause by claiming Tawang: Tawang is a settled-area, is non-negotiable and non-disputable just as the rest of the state is, and is an integral part of India that will be defended at all costs. Unlike in 1962, the Indian Air Force will now also join the action if Chinese troops move into Indian Territory. The Chinese Air Force is not ready for combat along the borders.

    China however plans to extend the Tibet railway to the Indian border in the Eastern sector at Xigatse, which will greatly help troop mobilization. One can imagine the Indo-Himalayan belt being pushed southward, according to Beijing's 'forward defence' doctrine. The Chinese design is to fight "local wars" in the future which may not lead to the snapping of diplomatic relations. Military preparedness for India is the only insurance against a Chinese attack, and as I said, we have not been sleeping dead.

    Beijing is seeking to open new pockets of contention, pockets of contention that can threaten to spiral out of control because we are just as irredentist a state as they are. The shrimp are trying to play with fire, but those who play with fire will eventually get burnt.

    Don't play with fire Chinamen. This time the media, civil society, as well as private lobby groups, the Army and the Air Force will ensure that our government doesn't let us down.


    * I thank Bhaskar Roy for his input on this post.
     
  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    22,931
    Likes Received:
    14,646
    Isn't Tibet also a disputed territory?? How has China been able to build there? Tibet was an independent nation which was annexed by China.
     

Share This Page