Assault Rifle

Discussion in 'Land Forces' started by Vikramaditya, Jul 28, 2009.

?

When picking a gun, what would your primary consideration be?

Poll closed Feb 24, 2013.
  1. Accuracy and Range.

    37.6%
  2. Beauty and Curio value.

    3.5%
  3. Reliability.

    51.8%
  4. Weight and Portability.

    1.2%
  5. Eeek! No guns! Only white pigeons!

    5.9%
  1. ghost

    ghost Senior Member Senior Member

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    So basically the soldier issued with traditional design will keep the traditional design and one issued with bullpup will keep the bullpup.No use of its ability to switch design in service.

    Have you ever handled tar 21 and m4 ,i think they will offer better ergnomics than this.

    It is also not multicalibre,as of now.And if they introduce a different version with 7.62 then also it would not be considered as one.It should be able to fire different calibre from the same rifle with minor adjustment ,just as arx and mciws.

    I was asking for the standard issued barrel,will it be heavy.

    Is there a carbine version of it.

    And you were claiming it to be superior to other assault rifle, but sorry to say :confused:i do not see any thing which makes it better,it is similar or probably inferior to arx,scar,cz bren 805 and ak 12,plus a lot more .I was expecting a lot from it :sad::sad::sad:since you built such a hype around it.But now you say in most of the parameter not worse than any modern assault rifle,i am disappointed.Desert tech rifle offer more than this:scared1:
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  2. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    No, as I said, it depends on customer. Besides this, if a military at some points decide to use only bullpup it does not need to purchase a completely new assault rifle. The only thing they need to purchase are lower receivers.

    I handled M4, nothing better there than in MSBS, besides I am perfectly aware that you are trolling right now.

    Another argument taken out from your ass? The only thing you need to change in MSBS is barrel, bolt carrier group and eventually lower receiver with different magazine well. It is a multicalliber rifle, but as I said, priority have 5,56x45mm variant because this is the basic weapon calliber used by Polish military and this rifle is primary designed for Polish military.

    It depends on customer, how it is that you people are incapable to understand such things? If customer says it's primary barrel type is heavy, then it will be heavy one. This is modularity aspect of a firearm.

    Eh... Yes for ----s sake, how many time I need to repeat that each basic variant in any calliber, will have 4 subvariants, which is standard rifle, carbine, marksman rifle and magazine fed light machine gun.

    Typical troll rubbish who never held that assault rifle and could compare it to others.

    Not to mention that you don't even understand proffesional and scientific terminology.

    If someone says not worse, it means that in worst case performance won't be worse than other types of armaments considered as top line. But it also don't mean it will not be better.

    As far as I can say in terms of ergonomics, MSBS beats hands down any competition, and I hold many AK rifles, AR15's, as well as G36 in my hands. I could also compare other rifles on photos, for example placement of fire selectors, charging handles and so one, other top line assault rifles are not better, and in many ways are archaic compared to MSBS.

    But of course I completely understand that for amateur, a good weapon system need to fire lasers... jeeezz why I even waste my time?
     
  3. ghost

    ghost Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sir,no need to use foul language:namaste:if you still do need to ,please visit me:namaste:


    I have asked you about "standard issued" since you said msbs in service.Being an expert i hope u understand this term.

    I have never said it is a bad rifle,infact it is a good rifle .Preciously because it is a whole range of small arms.But since you had created the hype that it is superior to others ,so my hopes were quite high.I was expecting it to set a new benchmarks in various fields,I apologize my mistake .

    I agree i reacted little abruptly but not trolling,it's just that when you have extremely high expectation from something you tend to get a bit reactive.I think we should wait for some more time and let the details out.

    You said 7.62 variant is in progress,i just replied by saying it is not present as of now.Plus you did not make it clear that will it be a completely new variant or something which can be easily converted with minimal change.So i said as of now it is not completely multicalibre as arx.

    I have just stated a simple question that i think tar and m4 might have a better ergnomics than it,have you handled them?You could have just stated ur opinion instead of getting hyper.

    I said that right now i will put it similar to arx,cz,and scar which are proven platform,and that maybe "maybe" it might be inferior to them,who knows time will tell.There is a difference between comparing and speculating ,what i was doing was "speculating" which is no way" comparing"

    Yes i am amateur ,no one was born expert.You have to take the journey,which i am doing by asking you,but if you are on such a high ground that you look down upon people,then:wave:

    On a lighter note,energy based weapon will be there in future,but maybe you would not.:namaste:
     
  4. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    As I said, it all depends on customer wishesh and concept of use.

    Ok, let's say that Indian Army want a new rifle, Indian Military use both standard and bullpup designs, but need to pay more because they need to purchase different designs from different manufacturers. Now if they would purchase MSBS in all nececary variants, costs go down, simply because in the esence they would purchase a single rifle design from a single manufacturer.

    This is advantage of the MSBS modularity concept, a true modularity compared to other designs.

    But it do, in terms of modularity, ergonomics. But many informations about new design are classified, and rightly so, I am more than sure that some companies allready would want to copy MSBS.

    It will be exactly the same rifle, just with different lower receiver, bolt carrier group and barrel, siply because these parts need to be different for different callibers. If you would look at the ejection port in 5,56x45mm MSBS, you would see it's large enough for different calliber projectile casings. The weapon from the very beggining was designed with different callibers in mind.

    However still I will repeat my self, MSBS is mainly designed for the Polish Military, which need to replace in front line units the AKM, AKMS and also kbk wz96 "Beryl" rifles, so AKM/AKMS goes to a long storage for reserves (some will be sold probably as these are in very good condition), "Beryl" will slowly send for reserve forces, and front line units will slowly convert to MSBS. This is a priority.

    Because standard variants of the 5,56mm version are actually ready for mass production, wiating only for the final state trails, engineers are currently focusing mostly on new variants.

    Our special forces soldiers, that have opportunity to test various rifle designs compared MSBS to ACR, SCAR, HK416, and some other stuff, and as far as I know, they were delighted with MSBS, and this means something.
     
  5. ALBY

    ALBY Elite Member Elite Member

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    Eventhough it was not produced in great numbers nor widely used,It was the favorite of SEALs during vietnam war.
     
  6. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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  7. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  8. militarysta

    militarysta Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Fist:

    promo polish 5,56mm Beryl:




    and very good video:

    this video is showing two small arms factories:

    old in Radom and new open in 2014. Worth to see and...to so how hight quality is proven by polish factory. This is one on sevral answer about polish Beryl cost and it's accuracy and other features :)
     
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  9. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    MSBS do amunicji 7,62 mm x 39 - Altair Agencja Lotnicza

    [​IMG]

    This is a photoshop made photo that demonstrates how or less will look our MSBS rifle converted to 7,62x39mm ammo. The magazine used is a demonstrator of a new magazine for new Beryl variant for the same ammo.

    The article says that yup, FB is working on new export variant of the MSBS for this type of ammunition, however note, the only new components of the rifle, will be lower receiver with new magazine well, new barrel, and new bolt carrier group, all designed for 7,62x39mm ammo.

    There are other interesting news in article. To the end of 2014 the first around 200 rifles of information series for our army, and also to participate in final state trails. Work is also made on a civilian variants for US market, they might be presented on next SHOT show. And also there is very intense work performed on development of different callibers kits for weapon.
     
  10. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    RK 95, Finnish service standard personal weapon. Developed from AK47 together with Israel. One of the last RUS tech weapons in FDF, NATO caliber is a joke in our forests. Finnish military police training voluntary youth for the use of the weapon.

    [​IMG]

    http://sassik.livejournal.com/108866.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
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  11. ALBY

    ALBY Elite Member Elite Member

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    [​IMG]

    Rare piic oof Russian AKM and East german Mpi 72 seen together
     
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  12. ALBY

    ALBY Elite Member Elite Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. ghost

    ghost Senior Member Senior Member

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    AK FAMILY OF RIFLES

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    AK 47

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    AK 47S


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    RPK

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    AKM

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    AKMS

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    RPK 74

    [​IMG]

    AK 74

    [​IMG]

    AK 74S
     
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  14. ghost

    ghost Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

    AK 74U

    [​IMG]

    RPK 74M

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    AK 74M

    [​IMG]

    AK 105

    [​IMG]

    AK 12
     
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  15. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    New Iranian 5.56mm rifle named Fateh:

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. ghost

    ghost Senior Member Senior Member

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  17. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    that look like XCR or ACR rifle? are those copy from that?
     
  18. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Black Rain Ordnance AK-47

    [​IMG]



    - See more at:
    Black Rain Ordnance Freedom Fighter - The Firearm Blog
    Black Rain Ordnance AK-47 PROTOTYPE Rifle – SHOT Show 2013 | HausofGuns.com | Gun and Gear Reviews, Hunting and Outdoor Products, Video
     
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  19. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    They got 'Oil' ..

     
  20. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Not related to AR but still ..

     
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