5 Indian Army soldiers martyred along LoC

Bhadra

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Re: Talk of command failure in army Pakistan intrusion raises questio

Comments from another Forum :

I agree , they need to be far more direct and stick their neck out but they are genuinely worried about the consequences to the army - remember the scathing attacks in part of the media during the pay commission and VKS issues. I don't think there is any sell out...in fact I am sure there isnt. But there is an incapability to come to terms with and deal with the realities outside their professional domain. For example just earlier this evening I was speaking to an ex GoC 21 Corps (strike corps) and he said very similar things. He had also served at AHQ and he said that sometimes it feels the government is not our government but our adversary's. He said lets say the Brigade Commander authorizes a raid. In this day and age people can be court martialed for this and the media will smash the reputation of the army and the govt will wreck whatever is left of our professionalism, discipline and ethos. This is the reality they have to deal with. They can be tried for war crimes and called rogue even if they are doing what would seem sensible in any sane country.

In the same gathering someone else told me that after the last incident the CO 13 RajRif almost revolted with the rest of his troops and insisted he allowed to go in and he was not allowed. A serving CO (third generation) of a unit in the valley told me that his father who had commanded a unit in the same area was shocked at how bad the situation was and said that even in 62 we were not scared of being hauled up for defending ourselves and exercising normal operational latitude. Remember Lt Gen Kapil Vij in Op Parakram. His actions were normal and consistent with the protection of his command in the context of the orders he had been given by the AHQ. And what happened ..he was sacked overnight on the insistence of Brajesh Mishra for doing his job. It was a BJP govt then. Then a Corps Commander could be sacked for doing his job, now a Company Commander can.

These guys can take on physical danger (even the worst of them) and pay the price on the battlefield but they cannot take the ignominy of being branded anti national and take on the mental pain and harassment that will be heaped upon them if they 'dare to question civil authority'.

The Indian Armed Forces will not disregard their political orders. Its just not going to happen.

Having said that we need someone to fall on his sword. We need a Manekshaw, Hanut Singh or SK Sinha but then given the state of our polity I wonder if even they could make a difference. I never thought I would say this but I wish Indira Gandhi was here !
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Ray

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I have stated that the Indian army is aptly carrying out revenge attacks across the LOC. Pakistani soldiers too have been beheaded. Indian Special Forces have carried out forward missions eliminating militant guides across the border. And that to me is perfect revenge. Strike back at the enemy while disallowing unity in that country.

I think what people are suggesting here that the Indian army should not only bite, but India should also drum up and make it a huge fanfare moment that they have bit back! I think that is completely idiotic, as it will only unite the enemy. Right now, TTP are bombing ISI bases every other day, while bomb blasts go off daily in Pakistani cities. The militants waging a war against Pakistani government will quickly turn against India to win over support of the Pakistani masses; so tell me why is it not an idiotic move to lash out at Pakistan overtly, rather than hitting back subtly as is being done now.

Anyone who supports attacking Pakistan at this current stage is arguing for us to help the Pakistani army, which is under siege from militants in that country.
I don't think anyone would say that a war is the only answer.

Anyone in the know of the state of equipment shortages would realise that it is not the answer.

It is another Govt bleat to justify their adamant stand of going through the talks, no matter what. Going to the extreme to fox the people into a scare!

I am not too sure that the Indian Army has beheaded anyone because I wonder they would do so when they are even squeamish about cutting meat on hoof that is supplied in the rations in the forward areas.

It is also news that the SF has undertaken cross border missions. I think if they did so, the Pakistani Govt and media would be shouting itself hoarse so as to prove that it is the Indian Army, which is the one which undertakes cross border missions against Pakistan!

Militants are waging a war against the civil administration of Pakistan and they are engineered by the Pakistan Army to keep a leverage.

n 2009, Pakistani President Asif Zardari admitted at a conference in Islamabad that Pakistan had, in the past created terrorist groups as a tool for its geostrategic agenda.
Pakistani president Asif Zardari admits creating terrorist groups - Telegraph



The Pakistan Army is clear that it will keep its mission to destroy India by a 1000 cuts. Their involvement is a matter of record, not only with the Indians but with the western govts.

Even the brother of Nawaz Sharif is aiding Hafeez Saed

Pak: Hafeez Saeed group gets 61 mn from govt
Pak: Hafeez Saeed group gets 61 mn from govt - Hindustan Times

Therefore, to believe that the militants are acting against the Pak Govt on its own is a moot point.
 

Tronic

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I am not too sure that the Indian Army has beheaded anyone because I wonder they would do so when they are even squeamish about cutting meat on hoof that is supplied in the rations in the forward areas.
Well, 12 beheadings of Pakistani soldiers have been carried out in the last decade across the LoC, and the Paks blame the Indian army for these. Infact, they have reported these to the UN mission there. And it is more than just the Pakistanis who are accusing Indians of beheading their soldiers, but also varying Indian journalists claim to have witnessed a particular incident during the Kargil war.


It is also news that the SF has undertaken cross border missions. I think if they did so, the Pakistani Govt and media would be shouting itself hoarse so as to prove that it is the Indian Army, which is the one which undertakes cross border missions against Pakistan!
They do shout hoarse, but the world doesn't listen, knowing the terrorist infested land it is...

Here's them crying hoarse over it:

Indian troops cross LoC, kidnap 4 Kashmiris
Loc violation : Indian troops 'kidnap villagers' – The Express Tribune

Anyhow, these weren't any innocent "villagers" or "herb collectors" but guides for militants...

Militants are waging a war against the civil administration of Pakistan and they are engineered by the Pakistan Army to keep a leverage.
Who the heck cares?

Suicide bombers target ISI compound in Sukkur - DAWN.COM
Bombers target Pakistan ISI office, 7 dead | GlobalPost
Attack on ISI: Still reeling from shock, injured share first-hand accounts – The Express Tribune

ISI and PA are also being bombed and attacked. Who in their right mind would want to ruin this by escalating hostilities with Pakistan and getting all these militant groups and PA jumping into bed again, against India...

n 2009, Pakistani President Asif Zardari admitted at a conference in Islamabad that Pakistan had, in the past created terrorist groups as a tool for its geostrategic agenda.
Pakistani president Asif Zardari admits creating terrorist groups - Telegraph
Obviously. That's no secret. Even Musharaf has admitted this. Infact, I think the entire Pakistani establishment acknowledges this fact.

The Pakistan Army is clear that it will keep its mission to destroy India by a 1000 cuts. Their involvement is a matter of record, not only with the Indians but with the western govts.

Even the brother of Nawaz Sharif is aiding Hafeez Saed

Pak: Hafeez Saeed group gets 61 mn from govt
Pak: Hafeez Saeed group gets 61 mn from govt - Hindustan Times

Therefore, to believe that the militants are acting against the Pak Govt on its own is a moot point.
Over 5000 Pakistani soldiers have been killed, close to 9000 injured, their naval bases bombed, P-3C Orions destroyed.... without India firing a single shot!

Let them burn in their own fire. Why ruin this by entering into the fray?
 

maomao

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This thread is not about barkha dutt ..
Kunal Sir, apologies, I just replied, had no intensions of arguing about something as worthless as Burkha, but can't resist sorry!
 

pankaj nema

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knowing my countrymen ie Indians very well ; and keenly observing the India Pak equation from 1990
ie when Kashmir erupted ; I know that such Periodic reminders are the ONLY way
of convincing Indians That India and Pakistan are Permanent enemies
and will remain so till the end of this world

Pakistanis will keep Killing Indians at every Opportunity that they get
 
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Kunal Biswas

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pankaj nema

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I have stated that the Indian army is aptly carrying out revenge attacks across the LOC. Pakistani soldiers too have been beheaded. Indian Special Forces have carried out forward missions eliminating militant guides across the border. And that to me is perfect revenge. Strike back at the enemy while disallowing unity in that country.

I think what people are suggesting here that the Indian army should not only bite, but India should also drum up and make it a huge fanfare moment that they have bit back! I think that is completely idiotic, as it will only unite the enemy. Right now, TTP are bombing ISI bases every other day, while bomb blasts go off daily in Pakistani cities. The militants waging a war against Pakistani government will quickly turn against India to win over support of the Pakistani masses; so tell me why is it not an idiotic move to lash out at Pakistan overtly, rather than hitting back subtly as is being done now.

Anyone who supports attacking Pakistan at this current stage is arguing for us to help the Pakistani army, which is under siege from militants in that country.

Excellent post mate exactly what I believe

Unfortunately people in India are NOT aware of the horrible situation Pakistan is in
And the situation is getting worse by the day

In all spheres ie politically ;socially and economically ALL this because of these
Home grown Terrorists who now stand at over ONE Million in number

Attacking Pakistan will help them unite It will solve their problems

Let them destroy their country
 

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Army chief wanted to hit Pak hard, LoC battle rages

Army chief General Bikram Singh has reprimanded his top commanders in Jammu and Kashmir for not launching a massive retaliatory strike against the Pakistani army along the Line Of Control (LoC) after five Indian soldiers were killed in an audacious cross-border strike in Poonch sector on August 6.


General Singh visited the Nagrota-based Headquarters 16 Corps outside Jammu a day later and, according to top sources, asked senior commanders why local commanders along the volatile border did not order artillery and mortar fire on Pakistani posts.

The chief had instructed local commanders on the LoC to retaliate strongly, if provoked, after the January 8 cross-border raid in which Pakistani troops beheaded one Indian soldier and gunned down another 500 metres inside Indian territory in the Mendhar sector.

The border remained tense with Pakistani troops violating the ceasefire yet again early Saturday, firing more than 7,000 rounds of ammunition and mortar shells for almost seven hours at Indian posts in Poonch sector. In retaliation, Indian troops fired 4,595 rounds of ammunition, including mortar shells.

It was the 58th incident of ceasefire violation this year and came just a day after Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif said the neighbours should honour the 2003 ceasefire agreement and not allow the situation to escalate.

A senior army official said there was no ambiguity in the army chief's orders to mount a massive response in case of provocation by the Pakistani army by way of ceasefire violations.

"The first question the chief asked the J&K commanders was what stopped them from retaliating with artillery and mortar fire. His orders for offensive action were clear," he added.

"I expect all my commanders on the LoC to be aggressive and offensive in the face of provocation and fire," General Singh had said after the January attack.

A top government source agreed with the aggressive stance advocated by General Singh, saying India should be able to punish Pakistan or the so-called non-state actors at a threshold below full-scale war.

The use of artillery could escalate tensions along the border, but it is equally critical for the army to take decisive action to punish Pakistan, experts said.

Under pressure over the mishandling of the Poonch attack - defence minister AK Antony first blamed "persons dressed in Pakistani army uniform" and later retracted, saying the intruders were "specialist troops" - the government has finally been able to build political consensus to launch punitive strikes against Pakistan if such cross-border raids are repeated.
Army chief wanted to hit Pak hard, LoC battle rages - Hindustan Times
 

ladder

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LoC attack: army jawans were shot point blank, bulletproof vests didn't work
New Delhi, Aug 11 : As chilling details emerge about the raid by "specialist Pak troops" near Sarla post on the Indian side of Line of Control in Poonch sector, it appears there was failure in command and control both at the unit and brigade levels of the Indian army. Moreover, the bulletproof vests which the martyred jawans were supposed to wear did not work, sources said.

Three of the martyred jawans were shot point blank in their chests. They were either not wearing the standard bulletproof jackets, or the jackets simply did not work, sources revealed.

The fourth jawan was shot between his eyes by Pak attackers. The fifth jawans was shot both in the upper and lower limbs and he died of multiple gunshot wounds.

The lone survivor Sambhaji Kute is still in the ICU, battling for his life, and his statement will be crucial to piece together details on that fateful night near the Rangad da Nallah.

The Rajouri-based 25 Division commander, a two-star general, is conducting the probe.

Sources said, Pakistani special services group assailants probably used silencer-fitted assault weapons to kill the jawans.

Sambhaji Kute was lucky to have escaped with wounds.

The probe will also take into account the possibility of the five jawans on patrol taking a nap at the ambush point, sources said.

Questions are also being raised was to why the local unit commander did not resort to mortar and artillery firing when the killings of five jawans came to notice.

Army chief Gen Bikram Singh had, after the January 8 cross-border raid, in which one jawan was beheaded, had clearly told local commanders to strike back with fury if such raids were repeated, but the local commanders did not.

"What stopped you from retailiating with artillery and mortar fire" was the question posed by the Army Chief when he took a meeting of formation commanders in Nagrota soon after the killings of five army jawans. There was no reasonable answer.
LoC attack: army jawans were shot point blank, bulletproof vests didn't work


Though I am not fond of the source but the information can be true.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Plates used on those jackets are not that good, Jackets lack Kevlar padding and other padding to absorb the shock of bullet impact ..

Three of the martyred jawans were shot point blank in their chests. They were either not wearing the standard bulletproof jackets, or the jackets simply did not work, sources revealed.
======================

Artyllary is not allowed in CT ops, And using motars so close to troops also endanger our troops, As the the motar falls in a wide area of 10ms accuracy..

Precision motar shells are needed in mass, Also Airborne UAV needed too, There are too less Gunships in CT area to provide fire support..

"What stopped you from retailiating with artillery and mortar fire" was the question posed by the Army Chief when he took a meeting of formation commanders in Nagrota soon after the killings of five army jawans
 

Blackwater

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Inside story of India's biggest night vision device scam


By Syed Nazakat

Soon after he took charge as Union home minister in 2008, P. Chidambaram cleared a long-awaited proposal to procure 32,766 telescopic night vision devices (NVDs) for the paramilitary forces. Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), a prestigious public sector undertaking, bagged the contract.

BEL started supplying the NVDs in September 2010. Till March 2011, it supplied 5,000 NVDs, of which 2,000 were tested. Ten per cent of the tested pieces were found to be faulty; the promised life of a piece was 10 years. The remaining 3,000 pieces are stored at depots, as the ministry is wary about deploying them in the field. Regarding the pieces in storage, a senior paramilitary officer said, "[As they were not tested], we will not be in a position to identify defective devices and seek replacement under the one-year warranty cover from BEL." Following complaints, the home ministry has asked the defence ministry to investigate whether proper trial procedures have been followed and whether kickbacks have been paid.

The story began in December 2006, when the home ministry put out a tender for NVDs. The tender stated that the devices were to be compatible with INSAS rifles and light machine guns (LMG) used by the paramilitary forces. For a long time, the ministry was unable to find a supplier. On November 19, 2008, during a target fixation meeting with the ministry, the Ordnance Factory Board said the Ordnance Factory Dehradun was developing an NVD for 5.56mm rifles and LMGs. It offered the device for trial.

On February 23, 2009, Dinesh Batra, senior deputy general manager, BEL, wrote to R.S. Sharma, then director of procurement, home ministry, that it could supply the required device. BEL claimed that it had developed a state-of-the-art NVD based on XD-4 technology, in technical collaboration with Prizmatech, a subsidiary of Star Defence Systems,Israel. The company website claims that "Prizmatech was established as Israel Defence Force's biggest source for night vision devices." In early 2009, a fresh 'request for proposal' was issued, leading to BEL winning the contract.

On June 23, 2009, a trial was conducted at the Border Security Force range in Gurgaon. The trial team consisted of officers of the BSF, Indo-Tibetan Border Police, National Security Guard and Central Reserve Police Force. BEL provided two models for trial—PR-1614 F and BEANS-0802. Ordnance Factory Dehradun also supplied two models—PNS-3X for INSAS and PNS-5.5X for LMG. Both failed the trials. BEANS-0802 failed the trial and the other one scraped through. P.C. Joshi, joint manager, Ordnance Factory Dehradun, declined to talk to THE WEEK about the trial procedure and results. Allegedly, the trial team endorsed BEL's claims without testing the device's magnification, operating temperature, battery life (which should be 15 hours) and resolution. But the trial team insisted that the device should have cheek-rests. But, no cheek-rests have been provided till date. The trial team had also found that the NVDs were not fitting snugly on to the assault rifles as BEL had not integrated the sights with the guns. These issues created a lot of inconvenience to the shooters. So, the trial team strongly recommended that BEL submit the NVD for a retrial after fitting a cheek-rest and solving the slotting issues.

Surprisingly, despite the shortcomings, no second trial or field trial was conducted. Normally, all equipment is trial-evaluated in varying locations and climatic conditions such as summer, winter, high altitude and desert. "That never happened," revealed an officer who was on the board. Lt-Gen. (retd) P.C. Katoch, former director-general (information systems), Indian Army, said that a device being procured after a single trial was unheard of. "It should be tested in the places where it is going to be used," said he. "It should be subjected to battlefield conditions."

Katoch said the four important performance parameters of an NVD are its sound-noise ratio (SNR), resolution, modular transfer function and lifetime (see box). "SNR is by far the most important parameter for an image intensifier tube [II tube]," said Katoch. An II tube is a vacuum tube device for increasing the intensity of available light in an optical system, and it constitutes 70 per cent of the cost of the device. THE WEEK learnt that BEL's NVDs were not tested for SNR. In August 2009, the home ministry cleared the Rs 1,000 crore deal.

On January 7, 2010, S. Chattopadhyaya, inspector-general, BSF, issued a proprietary article certificate in favour of BEL stating that no other Indian firm manufactured passive night vision telescopic sights. "A proprietary article is given if a company develops three parts—casing, optics and II tubes," said an officer who was on the trial team. "BEL developed none of these three critical objects. I am surprised how they were awarded this certificate." The proprietary article certificate was false because the Broadcast Engineering Consultants India Limited (BECIL) and the Ordnance Factory Dehradun have supplied NVDs to paramilitary forces. In 2010, Assam Rifles had procured 2,000 night vision devices from BECIL, of which only five have developed snags. BECIL developed the NVD in collaboration with a Russian firm. The Opto Electronics Factory, also under the Ordnance Factory Board, also makes night vision devices. Ordnance Factory Dehradun has supplied night vision devices to the CRPF in 2000, to Assam Rifles in 2002 and to the ITBP in 2007. On April 25, 2007, the ITBP paid only Rs 1,74,300 per piece to Ordnance Factory Dehradun, while BEL charged the home ministry Rs 3,50,000 per piece.

BEL told THE WEEK that it had been supplying large numbers of binocular and monocular devices to the paramilitary forces over the past five years and that only a few devices had developed faults, which were being attended to. "Regarding supply of weapon sights for INSAS and LMG for paramilitary forces, BEL received the first order and started deliveries from September 2010," BEL said. "Till March 2011, we have supplied close to 5,000 numbers of these night sights. These are currently under deployment and we have not received any complaints from our customers regarding supplies made up to now."

Documents accessed by THE WEEK reveal that BEL did not manufacture the NVDs. It was only sourcing them from Prizmatech in "complete knocked down condition" and assembling them. Prizmatech, in turn, was procuring the II tubes from Photonics, a French company. THE WEEK has with it a letter of intent dated January 26, 2006, reference number CV/CB/150601, signed by Cor Boet, director, Photonics, addressed to Moti Solomon, reportedly a majority shareholder of Prizmatech. The letter proves the Prizmatech-Photonics deal. Interestingly, many of the II tubes do not have the mandatory identification number. Paramilitary officials told THE WEEK that some of the II tubes could have been bought off the grey market. "If a device does not have an identification number, that simply means that it has been taken from the grey market," said Katoch. What created suspicion about the authenticity of the II tubes was its low figure of merit (FOM), which characterises the performance of the tube. The FOM of an II tube is arrived at by multiplying the number of line pairs per millimetre with the tube's signal-to-noise ratio (see box). The BEL equipment's FOM should have been around 1,000, but a senior paramilitary officer said, in field trials, it was less than 750.

The officer also told THE WEEK that when the issue of the unmarked II tubes was raised, BEL temporarily stopped supply. It had reportedly promised to deliver 22,200 devices by March 2011. About the delay in delivery schedule, BEL told THE WEEK that it had not received any request for 22,200 NVDs to be provided before March 2011. The available orders were being executed as per the agreed delivery schedules, BEL said. When THE WEEK inquired with BEL about the missing cheek-rests, its reply was that cheek-rests were not needed, and therefore were not provided. "We have received a complaint about BEL's night vision devices," Home Secretary G.K. Pillai told THE WEEK. "We have asked the defence ministry to inquire about it because BEL works under the defence ministry. We hope to get the report from the defence ministry soon."

According to reliable sources, high on the suspicion list is R.S. Sharma, former director (procurement), home ministry (see box). "We have registered a case against him for allegedly granting undue favours to certain private firms in the procurement of 59,000 bullet-proof jackets," said CBI spokesman R.K. Gaur. "We are also investigating his role and involvement in other procurement deals." Another surprising element of the NVD deal was that there was no commitment from BEL and Prizmatech to provide spare parts. By the end of the trials, it was clear the device, in its current form, was not fit for service. So, the board proposed three options to the ministry. First, if BEL overcomes the shortcomings, the procurement may be made from BEL on nomination basis. Second, the NVDs may be procured through limited tender from PSUs. Third, procurement through a global tender.

"The best option was to go global so that we could have chosen best device at the best cost," said a senior paramilitary officer. Pillai agreed to this view: "Normally, we go for a global tender. It is always good to go for a global tender because you get to know what the competitive cost of equipment is. If we do not have different prize disclosures, then we would not know whether that cost is the best cost for the weapon system." Then why was standard procedure not followed? "We will look into the case and see what went wrong," said Pillai.

The lack of NVDs was felt acutely after the Maoist attack in Dantewada on April 6, 2010, which claimed the lives of 76 CRPF personnel. An internal inquiry report on Dantewada pointed out that the inability to spot the enemy at dawn left the troops at the mercy of well-armed Maoists. "Night vision goggles and gunsights are absolute treasures," said Vijay Raman, former special director-general, CRPF, who was in charge of anti-Maoist operations. "The view through a passive NVD may be 40,000 to 50,000 times brighter than what the unaided eye sees. With them, you own the night. But if the device fails or creates hindrance, then the consequences will be severe. It may take a soldier's life."

With the Indian market for NVDs projected at $1 billion, foreign companies like Prizmatech are bullish onIndia. A defence ministry official said that one of the easy routes for foreign companies to enterIndia's defence and domestic security market is through 'transfer of technology' deals, where they share technology withIndia. In the NVD deal, transfer of technology was allegedly the cover to win the contract. BEL told THE WEEK that initially some NVDs were supplied in fully finished form fromIsrael. "In the second phase, items were supplied in completely knocked-down condition. Assembly and testing was done at BEL before supply," BEL said. For the rest, BEL did what it calls an "in-depth manufacturing of mechanical and optical components". But the question remains: how can Prizmatech transfer technology, when the II tubes were made by Photonics?

In the end, the ultimate benefactor of the deal was Prizmatech, which used BEL as a cover to sell a device they did not even manufacture! The ball is now in the defence ministry's court. If BEL is found guilty of flouting procurement rules and procedures, will the home ministry cancel the deal? In this investigation, the defence ministry may find itself in an awkward situation as the Army has recently signed another contract with BEL for 30,634 third-generation NVDs.

Interview of former DG (information systems), Indian Army, Lt Gen. (retd) P.C. Katoch

"Every soldier must have an NVD"

Lt Gen. (retd) P.C. Katoch is confident that technology will form the backbone of all future wars and conflicts, and that the man on the ground needs to be empowered with the best equipment available. Excerpts from an interview:

How important are nigh vision devices (NVDs) in modern warfare?

Today, most of the fighting happens at night. Whether it is war or fighting insurgency or terrorism, the soldier wants to fight at night. It enables you to surprise your enemy. Therefore, NVDs are critical for operational success. You should be able to see your enemy before he sees you and you should be able to fire at him and fire effectively. Every soldier must have an NVD.

How is the trial of an NVD done?

There should be a comprehensive trial directive. The trial for NVDs must be done in different locations under different weather conditions. It should be exposed to battlefield conditions. In the BEL case, they should have approached the Army for technical support to conduct the trials. The Army has been using NVD-fitted weapons for years.

What are the common problems with NVDs?

A common damage factor is exposure to bright light, rain, fog or even extreme humidity. These may damage NVDs. The battery is another issue. Every day, inKashmiror in the northeast, troops are out on patrolling or search operations. At times it is not easy to recharge the battery. Then the question is whether we have sufficient batteries for the devices. When the handheld thermal imager (HHTIs) were first imported fromIsraelandFrance, only one charger for four HHTIs was procured. That forced the infantry to improvise chargers, which may have caused damage to the equipment. The problem is that our public sector undertakings are way behind in developing NVDs. The NVDs of DRDO and BEL are not good; they are bulky and heavy.

How can we distinguish between real and fake NVDs?

Every part of the device should have an identification number. It is like a passport, it verifies your birthplace. A night vision scope has a set of optics, batteries, transformer, regulators and capacitors and an image intensifier tube. All these must have separate identification numbers. If an II tubes does not have a number, it simply means it was purchased from the grey market.



Inside story of India’s biggest night vision device scam | Syed Nazakat
 

Decklander

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I had earlier also written that it was the Fire Assaults after Kalu Chak that forced PA to ask for Ceasefire and also demand withdrawal of big guns to 30kms behind borders. Now we have krasnapol shells and they shud be used to blast the bunkers of pakis and roast them within those bunkers.
 

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I had earlier also written that it was the Fire Assaults after Kalu Chak that forced PA to ask for Ceasefire and also demand withdrawal of big guns to 30kms behind borders. Now we have krasnapol shells and they shud be used to blast the bunkers of pakis and roast them within those bunkers.
""Fire Assaults "

Sounds good. If fire will not assault then what shall it do ??

Bigger words and less effects.
 

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""Fire Assaults "

Sounds good. If fire will not assault then what shall it do ??

Bigger words and less effects.
Fire assault was the name given to the tactics of firing multiple Arty guns from multiple positions on one single target. That ensures that counter battery fire can't be brought on all the guns and the target is completely destroyed. IA used these tactics to completly destroy the PA posts which used to fire on Indian posts or support induction of terrorists. It was also effective in killing the terrorists in their launch pads close to LOC.
 

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Fresh Cease fire voilation along LoC at Narayanpur post in Samba sector,J&K around 8:00 am this morning.
 

Bhadra

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Fire assault was the name given to the tactics of firing multiple Arty guns from multiple positions on one single target. That ensures that counter battery fire can't be brought on all the guns and the target is completely destroyed. IA used these tactics to completly destroy the PA posts which used to fire on Indian posts or support induction of terrorists. It was also effective in killing the terrorists in their launch pads close to LOC.
For records sake, please name a single Pakistani post that was "completely destroyed" by Artillery fire ? and fire assaults are not only artillery fire !!
 

Decklander

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For records sake, please name a single Pakistani post that was "completely destroyed" by Artillery fire ? and fire assaults are not only artillery fire !!
I do not know the names but It was the tactics which IA used and a lot of PA soldiers died in these fire assaults. Yes, fire assaults are not just arty fire only, we can even use aircraft for this job. I am pretty sure that to give the names of the posts targetted in 2002-2003, we will need an Army officer who was deployed in that area and took part in such assaults or is privy to such info.
 

Dinesh_Kumar

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*****Cross posting from BR Forums - Anjan, posted here in full*****

'PMO to blame for soldier deaths'

[B]Quote:
Senior commanders in the India-Pakistan battlefield say that the rules of engagement enforced by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh are the cause of the multiplying number of deaths of Indian soldiers at the hands of the Pakistan army. According to them, present Chief of Army Staff General Bikram Singh "follows the PMO's directives in practice while publicly talking about a tough response" to Pakistani provocations,

Quote:
They said that scrutiny of postings would show that "those commanders who inflicted a robust response to provocations were quickly moved out of sensitive commands".

Heard the same through the grapevine. What a sad bloody state of affairs. :([/B][/B]
 
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