Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Damian

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Regarding Up-coming FSAPDS Round..





Though the round is for T-90S, But its possiable the Rod will be used for 120mm Arjun ammo, Further 600mm @2000ms is in devlopment..
In theory you can adapt any sort of penetrator to any sort of gun by just changing penetrators sabot and propelant case. But this is theory, what about practice, I think Kunal that from most people here you know the best that in case of ammunition, especially caseless ammunition, everything can be ----ed up nicely if qialuty standards are not keept, last year we discussed the issues with that ammunition, manufactured by OFP I think that needed to be destroyed.

Hopefully OFB improved quality control and someone is thinking about increasing firepower by using what they have untill completely new ammunition won't be ready.
 

Dejawolf

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Regarding Up-coming FSAPDS Round..





Though the round is for T-90S, But its possiable the Rod will be used for 120mm Arjun ammo, Further 600mm @2000ms is in devlopment..
the penetrator can be re-used yes, but the sabots will have to be redesigned. also 125mm sabots for 2-piece ammunition are not optimized for 120mm 1-piece ammunition either. the reason western ammunition are able to obtain such massive penetration, is because the penetrator is nearly the length of the whole ammunition casing.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Actually it was not about quality, It was about using new generation ammunition from Old Guns ( T-72M1 ), Which resulted in blast..

The ammo used in T-90S tanks, And 3BM42 also used by both T-72M1 And T-90S..

===============================================================

If you look at the poster, You will notice Arjun Ammo is also optimized for T-Series tanks..

If that is done, Visa versa is possible..

what about practice, I think Kunal that from most people here you know the best that in case of ammunition, especially caseless ammunition, everything can be ----ed up nicely if quality standards are not keeps, last year we discussed the issues with that ammunition, manufactured by OFP I think that needed to be destroyed.
the penetrator can be re-used yes, but the sabots will have to be redesigned. .
 

Kunal Biswas

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Btw, I am looking forward to new AP rounds, The above is my theory but lets see what ARDE have for us..
 

Damian

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Actually it was not about quality, It was about using new generation ammunition from Old Guns ( T-72M1 ), Which resulted in blast..

The ammo used in T-90S tanks, And 3BM42 also used by both T-72M1 And T-90S..

===============================================================

If you look at the poster, You will notice Arjun Ammo is also optimized for T-Series tanks..

If that is done, Visa versa is possible..
Well if your theory about using existing penetrators from different ammunition will be truth, then kudos to the guy who started such initiative.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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I think arde should aim for 750-800mm@2km(like german dm-53) for improved ammunition for arjun mk2,for which we need to go for much bigger KE rounds (about 1m in size).There is at least 2-3 years before arjun mk2 is operationalised in the army(hopefully in a larger number) so it is a project worth undertaking.
 

Kunal Biswas

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IMHO, We should replace Rifle 120mm Gun with Smooth-bore 120mm Gun of same dimention and same design, Not because of 120mm Rifled is outdated or so which i dont agree with But to have NATO superior Rounds,

Arjun enjoy superiority over all other T-series and Type-series tanks is it can have longer penetrator like most Western MBTs, We should understand this Advantage and use it for our benefit..

By doing so, We can also learn about NATO penetrators via legal means ( Tot ) that will help us making our own, Hope someone else thinking the same..
 

Akim

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Films on Discovery - more information than scientific. They are good for familiarization and raise Patriotic spirit. In principle, this is a correct.. They are designed for a mass audience, not to the "narrow circle" of specialists.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Though Still some of the things we were debating is now more clear, thnx to the direct words from the makers involved through Film..
 

shuvo@y2k10

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I don't think we should switch to 120mm smoothbore for arjun mk3.This is because the original arde l52 gun created in early 90's had a muzzle velocity of 1650m/s.Since then a lot of technological improvement is done to it to make it more versatile,higher barrel life and higher barrel velocity.This is done as a result of partnership of arde and dmrl hence there is improved material(titanium and nickel cadmium alloys) in the inner barrel coating and better rifling techniques.The rifled arjun main gun can fire hesh round which is a vital requirement of the original army's psqr way back in 1985.The hesh round is higly effective for against enemy structures like hardened bunkers and concrete buildings as well as exposed enemy personnel.Also there is no technological barrier for arjun to switch to smoothbore if need arises since arde has already manufactured an indegeneous 125mm smothbore for licence production of t-90s bhisma tank(as russian has refused to provide tot for t-90s main gun and era).What we need in arjun mk2 is a bigger and better apfsds round on the lines of dm-53, a good heat round(packed with cl-20),clgm,a good aps and tusk upgrades.For arjun mk3 if army finally decides to go for a smoothbore then we can move for a higher caliber than 120mm say 140mm/152mm/155mm since russian are already placing a 152mm smoothbore on armata mbt and nato and chinese will follow.Also for arjun mk3 we need a better indegeneous 1500hp/1800hp engine.
 

Damian

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I don't think we should switch to 120mm smoothbore for arjun mk3.This is because the original arde l52 gun created in early 90's had a muzzle velocity of 1650m/s.Since then a lot of technological improvement is done to it to make it more versatile,higher barrel life and higher barrel velocity.This is done as a result of partnership of arde and dmrl hence there is improved material(titanium and nickel cadmium alloys) in the inner barrel coating and better rifling techniques.The rifled arjun main gun can fire hesh round which is a vital requirement of the original army's psqr way back in 1985.The hesh round is higly effective for against enemy structures like hardened bunkers and concrete buildings as well as exposed enemy personnel.Also there is no technological barrier for arjun to switch to smoothbore if need arises since arde has already manufactured an indegeneous 125mm smothbore for licence production of t-90s bhisma tank(as russian has refused to provide tot for t-90s main gun and era).What we need in arjun mk2 is a bigger and better apfsds round on the lines of dm-53, a good heat round(packed with cl-20),clgm,a good aps and tusk upgrades.For arjun mk3 if army finally decides to go for a smoothbore then we can move for a higher caliber than 120mm say 140mm/152mm/155mm since russian are already placing a 152mm smoothbore on armata mbt and nato and chinese will follow.Also for arjun mk3 we need a better indegeneous 1500hp/1800hp engine.
Sorry, but if you will stick with rifled gun, you loose two important opportunities, first is capability to test and purchase more types of ammunition. Second you loose on foreing markets because world wide, rifled guns are not used anymore, especially in 120mm calliber.

As for HESH, HESH is also considered as obsolete type of ammunition world wide. I explained so many times why due to it's working mechanism, it is very simple to make HESH ineffective even against structures like bunkers. It is also cheap to make so.

As for "Armata" MBT, it will use new type of 125mm smoothbore gun the 2A82, but designers will also provide capability to rearm for 152mm 2A83.

NATO have several developed and tested 140mm guns, the US XM291, German NKPz-140 and also their French, British and Swiss analogs. So it is possible to start manufacturing of them, but a bit longer would take to actually design new ammunition for them. Also allready existing MBT's would need adaptation for these guns, as ar as I know only Swiss gun and US XM291 were ok to be installed in existing turrets, however at leas Americans and Germans designed new turrets for M1 and Leopard 2 to better fit 140mm in to them, I also know a French concept drawing of improved Leclerc with 140mm.
 

militarysta

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BTW: against Type-59 and BMP hesh is still quite effective but any tank whit space armour or multilayerd armour (np Al-ZALZAR, Al Chalid, M1, Leo-2, T-90S) is immune against HEASH rounds.
 
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Punjab canal bridges too fragile for Arjun tank : DRDO Chief

Punjab canal bridges too fragile for Arjun tank

According to Defence Research Development Organization (DRDO), during trials the heavyweight Arjun tank was found unsuitable for Punjab terrain as there are chances that the bridges over canals in the state may collapse with the tank's weight. It was revealed by director general, DRDO, V K Saraswat on Friday during his visit to DRDO's Terminal Ballistics Research Laboratory (TBRL) near Chandigarh. In reply to a question related to shortcomings of Arjun tank, Saraswat said that during trials the tank was found better in mobility and accuracy in comparison to Army's mainstay T-90 tanks. "During the trials it was found that canal bridges in Punjab were incapable of carrying its weight," he said.
Punjab canal bridges too fragile for Arjun tank : DRDO Chief | idrw.org
 

Daredevil

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Re: Punjab canal bridges too fragile for Arjun tank : DRDO Chief

Of course, canal bridges in 60s/70s are not constructed with Arjun in mind. Either they need to be strengthened or new bridges be constructed. Otherwise use it mainly in Rajasthan.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Apparently Not only Arjun But T-90S and T-72M1 too cannot cross those selected Canals, They cannot take more than 40tons at best..

The once over highway NH, Are capable of taking 80-90tons of weight..
 

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