Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

This is good for amateurs like you. In reality top manufacturers make their ammunition and armor capabilities classified, so you can dellusion yourself, but the reality is that statements you use as a "source" are only advertisements.

As for your beliefs, I treat the same as people beliefs in god or gods, this is same BS as relligion of any sort.

You don't know anything about technical drawing and dimensions,

So you can relieve yourself of the burdens of a tank professional and just post as ordinary mortal with some credible source.

True professionals never blurt out off the cuff remarks about the product designed by another set of through professionals without even setting their eyes on it.


rest of your sermons are bullshit,

 

[STGN]

i am posting pictures of front side , you are comparing it with back side.

From the picrures of production lot of ARJUn in 2008 , I see no such curvature on ARJUN turret front side.

Off cause I am comparing it to the back side/top the basic turret structure has stayed the same all(120mm) the time just look at mk2 turret its the same with a few weld on's.
First of all there is a difference between curvature and slope
You are right there is no curvature, the sides are flat. but they are not aligned with the sides of the hull they are at an angle looking from above look at my sketch again you will see the sides are flat but at an angle to the yellow CL. this means that the width of the turret gets smaller as you go forward of the widest part of the turret.
STGN

 

[Damian]

You don't know anything about technical drawing and dimensions,

So you can relieve yourself of the burdens of a tank professional and just post as ordinary mortal with some credible source.

True professionals never blurt out off the cuff remarks about the product designed by another set of through professionals without even setting their eyes on it.


rest of your sermons are bullshit,

Neither you know anything about technical drawings and dimensions, as well as you do not know history of development and service of different tank types, nither history of development of technology that served to create them, as well.

To your information, there is no space over sides and rear of hull as well as sides and rear of turret to place there composite armor, not to mention that placing there such armor, would mean increase in weight to levels beyond any resonable levels.

Of course I understand that fanboys like you would preffer to manufacture and use hilarious and useless designs like P-1000 Ratte to please their ill ego... but hey, it seems that definetely you would be friend with Hitler, he was same megalomaniac.

 

[Dejawolf]

So you call this flawed measurement , the fruit of your 10 years experience,

claiming a straightened shoe will measure close to 300 mm,and a wrist cross section measuring 75 mm

if you do that you will get just 360 mm (just two spur width is there )width besides the turret side on ARJUN hull,

One spur width equals approx 3 wrist widths , it means 3x75 mm=225 mm(one spur width ).

2x225 mm=360 mm(two spur width ).

So 2x450=900 mm(on both sides),
3840-900 mm=2940 mm(turret width).

3120 mm-2100 mm(crew compartment)= close to 1 meter both sides combined.

Instead you are measuring and marking it along an irrelevant axis.

If some one asks what is a height of the triangle , where do you measure ?

will you measure the perpendicular height ,From the center point of the baseline to the triangle's tip at 90 degrees angle ,

or,

from the edge of the base line to the tip along the slanting line of the triangle?

fixed. but it's still incorrect because the wrist of the dude is at an angle. adjusted for angle, wrist is between 7 and 8mm
width of wrist parallell to measurement axis becomes 9mm.

so what did you say again about my measurements? they are in fact spot on.
your measurement is the one that is off
foot is correct length, wrist is correct width, down to the last mm.
i used the width over track of 350cm to make the estimate of 18 cm. 386-350 = 36. 36/2 = 18cm

also, your measures means the side skirts are only 73mm thick, instead of 100mm...

 

[Dejawolf]

Just now it is proved that there is lot of space all around ARJUn with 3 plus meter wide turret and just 2 meter wide inner crew compartment,


BYE

again, how did you make the measure of the inner crew compartment? what method did you use to conclude that the interior is only 2m wide?

NOTHING. you have absolute NOTHING, and that's why you're not replying to this.

on the other hand, based on the assembly drawing of the Arjun, turret ring diameter is 205cm, and the width from wall to wall is.... wider.
i could make estimates but you wouldn't believe them so whats the point.

 

[Shaitan]

 

[Dejawolf]

thanks to the assembly drawing i can make a better prediction of turret interior width.

now time for some math:

multiply armrest by 2
18*2 = 36cm
add turret ring diameter
36+205 = 241cm
subtract from turret width
286-241 = 45cm
divide by 2 to find turret wall + storage box thickness.
21/2 = 22.5cm

 

[STGN]

thanks to the assembly drawing i can make a better prediction of turret interior width.

now time for some math:

multiply armrest by 2
18*2 = 36cm
add turret ring diameter
36+205 = 241cm
subtract from turret width
286-241 = 45cm
divide by 2 to find turret wall + storage box thickness.
21/2 = 22.5cm

22.5? that can't be true at least not while maintaining a 550mm hatch door. just storage box with width on y axis off 22.5 and you are down to 44.3cm width door. Second it prepossess a turret symmetrical around the CL which my picture pretty clearly shows it is not. I know the gun and whole turret on the drawing is offset to the left side but that is not how it looks in reality. So what ever distance is free on the commander side its going to be less on the loaders side ergo more side space for wall+ storage.
STGN

 

[SilentKiller]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

:yield::yield:

 

[Dejawolf]

22.5? that can't be true at least not while maintaining a 550mm hatch door. just storage box with width on y axis off 22.5 and you are down to 44.3cm width door. Second it prepossess a turret symmetrical around the CL which my picture pretty clearly shows it is not. I know the gun and whole turret on the drawing is offset to the left side but that is not how it looks in reality. So what ever distance is free on the commander side its going to be less on the loaders side ergo more side space for wall+ storage.
STGN

yeah...
i went through my measurements.
i forgot to adjust the value of the turret ring in the drawing, which makes the turret ring hole 201cm instead of 205cm. ring overlap is still 4cm.
and the frilled edge of the TC's elbow rest fooled me when i put down the vertical line. i tweaked it a bit, but there's still a bit of uncertainty whether the line is 36 or 39 pixels wide due to the embossing of the plate.

with 36 pixels i get 26cm turret walls,
with 39 pixels i get 27.3cm turret walls.

here's the formula used to determine the width:
(286-(((4./39.)*148.*2)+201))/2

you can put it into google and adjust the numbers if you want double check it, or if you find a better way to determine the width.

 

[Bhadra]

The way this thread runs, Arjun will certainly become the supersonic aeroplane.

Allow people to forget about the tragedy !!

 

[ersakthivel]

Off cause I am comparing it to the back side/top the basic turret structure has stayed the same all(120mm) the time just look at mk2 turret its the same with a few weld on's.
First of all there is a difference between curvature and slope
You are right there is no curvature, the sides are flat. but they are not aligned with the sides of the hull they are at an angle looking from above look at my sketch again you will see the sides are flat but at an angle to the yellow CL. this means that the width of the turret gets smaller as you go forward of the widest part of the turret.
STGN

Even if we accept your argument that the width is just a little bit less at the front,it has no implication for calculating the size of the crew compartment or turret side armor thickness at Tc's seat.

But I seriously doubt whether there is any significant reduction in turret width at the front.

Because the frontal armor block extends close to 1 meter on the turrret side. SO there is a massive amount of side protection in the frontal turret sides, since crew compartments start close to one meter away from the turret front,

 

[Dejawolf]

22.5? that can't be true at least not while maintaining a 550mm hatch door. just storage box with width on y axis off 22.5 and you are down to 44.3cm width door. Second it prepossess a turret symmetrical around the CL which my picture pretty clearly shows it is not. I know the gun and whole turret on the drawing is offset to the left side but that is not how it looks in reality. So what ever distance is free on the commander side its going to be less on the loaders side ergo more side space for wall+ storage.
STGN

this?

hmm... yeah, it could be the turret is assymetrical. the gun needs to be placed in the center of the race ring, or it will pull the turret to the left or right when it's fired.

used the figure from this picture for inner turret wall of 250cm
(250-(((4./36.)*148.*2)+201))/2 = 8cm

 

[ersakthivel]

fixed. but it's still incorrect because the wrist of the dude is at an angle. adjusted for angle, wrist is between 7 and 8mm
width of wrist parallell to measurement axis becomes 9mm.

so what did you say again about my measurements? they are in fact spot on.
your measurement is the one that is off
foot is correct length, wrist is correct width, down to the last mm.
i used the width over track of 350cm to make the estimate of 18 cm. 386-350 = 36. 36/2 = 18cm

also, your measures means the side skirts are only 73mm thick, instead of 100mm...

I meant the wrist of the other guy AJAI shukla , which is perfectly perpendicular to the camera and presents a correct measuring reference,


As I said earlier in my post you are measuring distorted dimension intentionally on the wrong slanting axis,

http://www.math.com/tables/trig/oppadjhyp.htm

You are measuring distance along the hypotenuse axis (marked as hyp on the drawing),

Instead of measuring on the opposite side axis.(marked as opp on the drawing)

adj is the base of the turret side.

If you mark it on the opp side axis , which is right on the spur(just above your stepped red line for marking 18 cm thickness.) which holds the side skirts to the tank hull you will get correct measurement as explained in my previous post.

Instead of the correct measuring axis which is perpendicular to the turret side , right on the spur that holds the side skirts,

if you do that you will get just 360 mmwidth besides the turret side on ARJUN hull,

(just two spur width is there on the photo below where the turret side is shaded in red)

One spur width equals approx 3 wrist widths , it means 3x60 mm=180 mm(one spur width ).

2x180 mm=360 mm(two spur width ).

So 2x360= 720 mm(on both sides),
3840-720 mm=3120 mm(turret width).

3120 mm-2100 mm(crew compartment)= close to 1 meter both sides combined.


if you can not understand what I say , please don't reply,

if you can , and has the capacity to correct it you will automatically arrive at the same length arrived upon by me and STGN ,i.e 3.1 meters plus,

if you don't even know the correct axis along which to measure a dimension , what is the purpose of boasting of 10 years experience? and abusing other guys who measured it on the field .

 

[ersakthivel]

The way this thread runs, Arjun will certainly become the supersonic aeroplane.

Allow people to forget about the tragedy !!

Simply Arjun is a finished product that has reached production stage,nothing more nothing less,

Starting from 40 ton 110mm gun specification of the very old IA GSQR,

to the intermediate 115 mm gun GSQR change ,with ability to fire APFSDS rounds,

to the present 120 mm (90 percent probability of kill at first shot) gun 60 plus ton juggernaut ,


a few dimensionally challenged people , who cannot hold a ruler along the straight line are may whine forever,

it means nothing to the program.

 

[Dejawolf]

I meant the wrist of the other guy AJAI shukla , which is perfectly perpendicular to the camera and presents a correct measuring reference,


As I said earlier in my post you are measuring distorted dimension intentionally on the wrong slanting axis,



Instead of the correct measuring axis which is perpendicular to the turret side , right on the spur that holds the side skirts,

if you do that you will get just 360 mm (just two spur width is there )width besides the turret side on ARJUN hull,

One spur width equals approx 3 wrist widths , it means 3x60 mm=180 mm(one spur width ).

2x180 mm=360 mm(two spur width ).

So 2x360= 720 mm(on both sides),
3840-720 mm=3120 mm(turret width).

3120 mm-2100 mm(crew compartment)= close to 1 meter both sides combined.


if you can not understand what I say , please don't reply,

if you can , and has the capacity to correct it you will automatically arrive at the same length arrived upon by me and STGN ,i.e 3.1 meters plus,

if you don't even know the correct axis along which to measure a dimension , what is the purpose of boasting of 10 years experience? and abusing other guys who measured it on the field .

google "hand" and see what you get. is there any wonder i might have misunderstood? it's intentionally disingenious argumentation like this that makes me completely disregard anything you say as biased trash. STGN backs his shit up with at credible and falsifiable evidence. all you do is move the goalposts, lie, and act obnoxious.

the measures i made matches with the hand, the wrist, the shoe, all of it. you turn up with measurements that would only fit a child of about 12 years old.

 

[Dejawolf]

Simply Arjun is a finished product that has reached production stage,nothing more nothing less,

Starting from 40 ton 110mm gun specification of the very old IA GSQR,

to the intermediate 115 mm gun GSQR change ,with ability to fire APFSDS rounds,

to the present 120 mm (90 percent probability of kill at first shot) gun 60 plus ton juggernaut ,


a few dimensionally challenged people , who cannot hold a ruler along the straight line are may whine forever,

it means nothing to the program.

90% probability of hit is not 90% probability of kill when your round only penetrates 300mm@2km. there was 105mm guns back in 1978 who could penetrate more steel than that. (specifically IMI M111)

the front turret of the Ajeya is impenetrable to the Arjun's 120mm AP round.

 

[ersakthivel]

google "hand" and see what you get. is there any wonder i might have misunderstood? it's intentionally disingenious argumentation like this that makes me completely disregard anything you say as biased trash. STGN backs his shit up with at credible and falsifiable evidence. all you do is move the goalposts, lie, and act obnoxious.

the measures i made matches with the hand, the wrist, the shoe, all of it. you turn up with measurements that would only fit a child of about 12 years old.

Yu have given the width of the spur as 180 mm in your own measurements,

As per the photo below there is only two spur wide space is there on the hull besides the turret,

 

[ersakthivel]

google "hand" and see what you get. is there any wonder i might have misunderstood? it's intentionally disingenious argumentation like this that makes me completely disregard anything you say as biased trash. STGN backs his shit up with at credible and falsifiable evidence. all you do is move the goalposts, lie, and act obnoxious.

the measures i made matches with the hand, the wrist, the shoe, all of it. you turn up with measurements that would only fit a child of about 12 years old.

O.K ,lets leave the whose wrist is what dia argument, and spare your rants about who is disingenious and who back's whose shit with which falsified evidence for the last,

See you yourself has given the spur length as 180 mm in the above measurement,

in the photo below(the turret side shaded in red) you can clearly see there is only two spur length wide space is there as per my previous post.

So automatically its just 360 mm of space beside the turret side on the ARJUn hull,

2x180 mm=360 mm(two spur width ).

So 2x360= 720 mm(on both sides),
3840-720 mm=3120 mm(turret width).

3120 mm-2100 mm(crew compartment)= close to 1 meter both sides combined.

 

[ersakthivel]

90% probability of hit is not 90% probability of kill when your round only penetrates 300mm@2km. there was 105mm guns back in 1978 who could penetrate more steel than that. (specifically IMI M111)

the front turret of the Ajeya is impenetrable to the Arjun's 120mm AP round.

Once ARJUn is inducted in large numbers , I don't think DRDO scientists will waste their time posting bullshit posts like you do,

And they will adopt the latest high penetration rounds for ARJUN,

it is no herculean job for a team that developed a complete weapon system, as per the posts already posted here it is a continuous ongoing process.