Indian Army Artillery

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Today's Times of India mentions that Arty trials of OFB 155mm setback due to "barrel burst"

> 155mm barrel have been made as spares for years by OFB.

This points to Quality Control at OFB not being upto the mark. Arty trials can please continue with new barrel and breech block, and Quality Passed by Competent Authority.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

I read an old article of US up gunning M102 Howitzer from 105mm to 155mm.

> 39 Cal barrel
> Same carriage and breech block
> Same prime mover
> Range obviously increased but gun cant be used at higher angles.

Got me thinking wrt our context. Feasible?

If interested I can mail the same to one of the admins, not able to upload.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I read an old article of US up gunning M102 Howitzer from 105mm to 155mm.

> 39 Cal barrel
> Same carriage and breech block
> Same prime mover
> Range obviously increased but gun cant be used at higher angles.

Got me thinking wrt our context. Feasible?

If interested I can mail the same to one of the admins, not able to upload.

Only relevant article I found had this statement:

When emplaced, the [Towed Howitzer (105 mm) M102] high volume of fire compensates in large measure for the lower explosive weight of the projectile compared to the 155mm howitzers.

Towed Howitzer (105 mm) M102 Fact File for the United States Army

 

[wild goose]

BAE May Have to Suspend M777 Production in Barrow

BAE Systems will suspend production of the M777 howitzer unless it can quickly secure a long-talked about order from India for the lightweight 155mm weapon.

BAE May Have to Suspend M777 Production in Barrow | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Rohan Nautiyal]

How do I upload pics?? Need your help.............

 

[W.G.Ewald]

If India can buy 155mm artillery from BAE Systems bcz of US Government's FMS deal .

Than why can't they try Government to Government deal with Sweden ( BAE-Bofors ) and France ( Caesar ) .

I watched a video just now about Caesar on Military History channel.

Caesar 155mm Artillery System - Army Technology

 

[ladder]

Desi Bofors to be pitched on the field again

NAGPUR: After an accident during trials in August shattered expectations, the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) is planning to make one more attempt with the indigenous Bofors type gun that it designed recently. Sources involved in the project say another 155m cannon prototype will be put up for winter trials with the army in December.

The summer trials were held in mid-August when, after firing quite a few rounds, the barrel of the gun came off. The howitzers were designed at Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), Jabalpur. The officials here say the accident took place due to a defective shell, which prematurely burst damaging the entire barrel. However, there is another theory of a likely design problem in the howitzer due to which the accident took place. The matter is being investigated.


A source said the initial probe has revealed no explosive was found within damaged parts of the barrel. In that case, it suggest the shell may have not burst within the barrel itself. Those linked with the project counter this and say, the full report has not been put up yet. "The damaged gun is still under examination by the investigation team. No initial report has mentioned explosive not being found," the official said.

In December, a fresh piece will be used for test. Even in the August trials only a single howitzer was put up, said a source. So far, OFB has made five units with plans to make 10 in all for testing.

The original Bofors guns was of 155x39 mm caliber but the ordnance factory has upgraded it to 155x45 mm. These are the measurements of the barrel's length. The new version has a longer barrel, which increases the range. But certain changes from original version were made to gain accuracy in hitting the target.

The GCF at Jabalpur got the designs along with the original guns purchased in the 1980s. However, the work to design indigenously only began over a couple of years ago. The project was taken up when kickback controversies hit the efforts to acquire howitzers from international market. Ordnance factory sources say initial hiccups are normal for a new system. It began with gradual upgradations in the original gun leading to a new piece altogether.

Desi Bofors to be pitched on the field again - Times Of India

 

[arnabmit]

Since US is in such an accommodating mood towards India currently, and since M777 line has started shutting down, Would US allow India to buy the M777 line from BAE?

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

130mm Arjun based SP Catapult Gun seen on CVRDE website

http://i.imgur.com/qYNGOEn.png

This is a good development, Jugaad tech. In future, it is easier to upgun to 155mm than procure a new 155mm. And with desi FCS, the end product may be quite good, actually.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun 130 mm gun: DRDO tastes success

Feasibility study of mounting 130 mm Catapult Gun on Arjun Chassis Mk-I was carried out in May- June 2012. The technical study concluded that upgradation of the existing Catapult on the chassis could be carried out in a very short time and the equipment capabilities increased.

A date in the month of November, 2012 was fixed by the DG (artillery) for the first field trial. The CVRDE, Avadi, took up the challenge after they were given a spare gun system to mount on the Arjun, Mk I in July, 2012. The trials were held between 27 November to 3 December 2012. The Arjun mounted chassis outmatched Vijayanta by a large margin, also in the test for stability, while firing charged rounds.

The developmental trials were held between 31 July to 13 August, 2013 during the summer. Arjun Catapult was fitted with two sets of Goegraphical Positioning System and one Gyro used in Arjun Mk-I during these trials. Driver's Night Vision Device (DNS) and Commanders' night sight (HHTI) were also successfully tested. It was also provided with fire fighting system based on Instant Fire Detection Suppression System as existing in Arjun Mk-I tanks.

The Arjun Catapult was run for about 500 kms during this trial and subjected to maximum intense and sustained firings.

'The firings and mobility trials were absolutely smooth which gave full confidence to the users as well as the development agency, that the requirement of Arjun Catapult of artillery would soon be a reality. It is expected that the user trials based on General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR) would be held in November-December 2013, and 40 Catapult Guns would be inducted by the army,' a senior DRDO official stated.

Source : Arjun 130 mm gun: DRDO tastes success | Millennium Post

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

I remember that the Vijayant based Catapult had a range of about 25 km. The Arjun based 130mm version is likely to be similar. As far as the competition is concerned - Chinese 122mm SPGs and M109s from Pakistan, range is quite competitive. The concern here is that M109s have a 155mm shell which outmatches the 130mm in effectiveness. Also, the Pakis have 200 + M109s, while we have far fewer. This is a weak link in the chain, especially for armoured thrusts. Rumour has it that we have Russian 152mm SPGs in some units, but no sources confirm this.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

130mm M46 range is 40km with bleed base rounds, Same as most 155mm of 45 & 52cal, the difference is accuracy and explosive quantity in shells ...

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Desi Bofors named "Dhanush"; 5th Prototype successfully tested at Balasore in Orissa by GCF, Jabalpur. More than 100 rounds fired and ranges of upto 38 km was achieved. Issues of Auto Loading has been resolved, and adequate precautions taken due to previous barrel burst incident. Winter Trials by Indian Army are next.Link is given below (in Hindi):

Clipping of Patrika Bhopal, 06-12-2013 :readwhere

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

While Gen. VK Singh remains a controversial figure, one of his main achievements, IMHO, are his contributions to indegenisation.

Tatra: The Tatra is a reliable and robust platform, technically complex and subjected to heavy load cycles.Previous Officers had not put any stoppages to its procurement, but VKS questioned its high cost mark-up, lack of localization by BEML for many years , and deficiencies like Air Cooled engine, left hand drive in Indian context, etc. This resulted in TATA and Ashok Leyland fielding trucks with better features and more horsepower. Justifying imports for this category has become more difficult.

Note: Engineering Books mention Air-cooled engines are used by military vehicles in desert conditions, where water is scarce.However, efficiency is low, and engine size required is huge. Modern NATO armies use water cooled engines, with high reliability and good results.

Bofors 155mm Artillery: VKS had wanted to know why 155mm Artillery procurement had become a bottle neck, and a search into the matter was started. Then, somebody discovered that the original Bofors deal had included complete Transfer of Technology.GCF, Jabalpur, admitted that engineering blueprints were available (26 years after the deal was made), and the Army raised an indent for an initial order of 114 nos. of 155mm guns (I am unsure whether 39 or 45 Caliber has been ordered). If this goes through, the IA immediately gets about 5-6 additional Medium Artillery Regiments.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun catapult doing good over thar, More than 100 will be ordered ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Beautiful Name, Summer trails are successful winter trails will be conducted in Jan of 2014 ..

Desi Bofors named "Dhanush"; 5th Prototype successfully tested at Balasore in Orissa by GCF, Jabalpur. More than 100 rounds fired and ranges of upto 38 km was achieved. Issues of Auto Loading has been resolved, and adequate precautions taken due to previous barrel burst incident. Winter Trials by Indian Army are next.Link is given below (in Hindi):

Clipping of Patrika Bhopal, 06-12-2013 :readwhere

 

[Kunal Biswas]

How the Artillery procurement system works:-

Six months later, the CBI filed an FIR against Choudhrie, which provides an account of how he successfully won the contract in the face of blatant irregularities in the process. The details are bland, but they give a pretty good sense of how a powerful middleman could then bend the system to his liking.

At the end of that year, the Israeli company Soltam—whose directors included Choudhrie, according to the CBI—sent an unsolicited offer to the MoD for the contract, even though India had not yet formulated the required SQR or issued a request for proposals. Though "a proper analysis of the Soltam proposal was not done", the MoD asked Soltam to send their gun for trials; they sent a gun that they had not yet tested themselves, which the FIR calls "an untested and unproven prototype".

The gun performed poorly, and "various wings of Army including DRDO raised serious objections", which were "deliberately suppressed and ignored", while a faulty evaluation report favouring Soltam was prepared.

Over the next several years, competing proposals at lower or comparable prices, from Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Finland, South Africa and India's own Ordnance Factory Board were rejected "on one pretext or another ... No effort was made to shortlist the various possible sources and a single vendor situation was deliberately created." Finally, a false report was prepared to secure the approval of the Cabinet Committee on Security, while frequent meetings were held between representatives of Soltam and army and MoD officials, "in gross violation of the DPP." According to the CBI, Choudhrie received a payment of $156,940 (equivalent to Rs. 1.3 crore today) from Soltam in March 2000 as commission in the deal

Source : Boomtown

 

[arnabmit]

Let me re-phrase the question:

Since BAE is basically an UK company, can MoD ask BAE directly to purchase the technology and production line of M777?

Since US is in such an accommodating mood towards India currently, and since M777 line has started shutting down, would US allow India to buy the M777 line from BAE?

 

[hitesh]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Which one is this ?