Arjun vs T90 MBT

[ersakthivel]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

@Ajeesh Kumar S



Arjun is more powerful and it has all the components asked by the IA.
The weight cannot be a issue...
In desert I read some where that the mobility will be compromised because of weight but as we know it exerts the same pressure as teh T(0 or any other tank (actually better than those tin tanks)...

Then what is there that we are missing as weight cannot be a genuiene factor....

Desert terrain test of Arjun were not highlighted to say that tehy have had any issue there..
If it has more weight then As per my knowledge the power is also more in Arjun then the accuracy and various other factors...

If it is not weight... Then is it lack of trust (Not on product but on Manufacturers)?
Or as we have Kunal sir you also pointed out once .... Arm Lobbies????

Arjun was called dessert ferrari by some israleis,

 

[hitesh]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

If Arjuns was called dessert ferrari then T90MS would be desert desert rocket because power to weight ratio goes in favor of T90 . A 1,400 hp 60 ton monster is definitely not a ferrari

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

If Arjuns was called dessert ferrari then T90MS would be desert desert rocket because power to weight ratio goes in favor of T90 . A 1,400 hp 60 ton monster is definitely not a ferrari

First get to know how much power actually comes out from the T-90 in indian desert conditions. Not as much as it is claimed to be.

And crew can not stay inside the T-90 ferrari , because they will faint with heat, not what you expect from ferrari.

It was the army evaluation which fitted Arjun against T-90 in mission mode evaluation and declared that Arjun was the best tank in IA tables.

While Arjun is desert ready right now, the army is still looking for AC solution to the heat problem which impacts the crew and electronics in T-90.

 

[dvdiyen]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

First get to know how much power actually comes out from the T-90 in indian desert conditions. Not as much as it is claimed to be.

And crew can not stay inside the T-90 ferrari , because they will faint with heat, not what you expect from ferrari.

It was the army evaluation which fitted Arjun against T-90 in mission mode evaluation and declared that Arjun was the best tank in IA tables.

While Arjun is desert ready right now, the army is still looking for AC solution to the heat problem which impacts the crew and electronics in T-90.

As I understand Arjun is just called a Ferrari of Tanks (Not exactly desert ferrari). Its simply because of its suspension as well as the stability of turret. The Germans and Israels when they tested the tank praised for its performance. Some of late T-72 were also modified for such suspension. (Basically not for speed)

 

[hitesh]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

First get to know how much power actually comes out from the T-90 in indian desert conditions. Not as much as it is claimed to be.

And crew can not stay inside the T-90 ferrari , because they will faint with heat, not what you expect from ferrari.

It was the army evaluation which fitted Arjun against T-90 in mission mode evaluation and declared that Arjun was the best tank in IA tables.

While Arjun is desert ready right now, the army is still looking for AC solution to the heat problem which impacts the crew and electronics in T-90.

In hot conditions the actual out power will decrease in all tanks not just specific to t90.
T90 has bin in service of desert-countries too & no complaints form them heard ever.
T90MS now comes with auxiliary diesel generator producing a minimum electric power of 7kW for AC to work even when tank engine is switched off.
It has been equipped with RELIKT ERA to survive agtm .

 

[hitesh]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

As I understand Arjun is just called a Ferrari of Tanks (Not exactly desert ferrari). Its simply because of its suspension as well as the stability of turret. The Germans and Israels when they tested the tank praised for its performance. Some of late T-72 were also modified for such suspension. (Basically not for speed)

Wrong, T72 does not have suspension even closer to Arjun . The hydroponic suspension use in arjun is not implemented by Germans in there Leopard tanks

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

In hot conditions the actual out power will decrease in all tanks not just specific to t90.
T90 has bin in service of desert-countries too & no complaints form them heard ever.
T90MS now comes with auxiliary diesel generator producing a minimum electric power of 7kW for AC to work even when tank engine is switched off.
It has been equipped with RELIKT ERA to survive agtm .

It decrease pathetically low in T-90. No complaints, because every one knows it, It is no state secret.
Then why is Army repeatedly tendering Acs?

 

[dvdiyen]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Wrong, T72 does not have suspension even closer to Arjun . The hydroponic suspension use in arjun is not implemented by Germans in there Leopard tanks

I never quoted of German leopards. I said the Germans and Israels tested our tank. By the way as a technology demonstrator few batches of T-72 was modified for such suspension. If needed PM me will give the source of this information from CVRDE.

 

[LastProphet]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

I never quoted of German leopards. I said the Germans and Israels tested our tank. By the way as a technology demonstrator few batches of T-72 was modified for such suspension. If needed PM me will give the source of this information from CVRDE.

When did Germans and isrelies tested our tank....?????

 

[hitesh]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Germans and Israels never tested our tanks they just provided consultation for the component / design there company provided . T72 had just a prototype with modified arjun turret on t72 chassis(karan) but idea was dropped as Russians objected .

 

[ghost]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Germans and Israels never tested our tanks they just provided consultation for the component / design there company provided . T72 had just a prototype with modified arjun turret on t72 chassis(karan) but idea was dropped as Russians objected .

The Army wanted a third party to assess the tanks and called in experts from Israel. They subjected the tanks to more tests at the Mahajan range and were so impressed that they called it "a desert Ferrari".

‘Desert Ferrari' and more

 

[hitesh]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

The Army wanted a third party to assess the tanks and called in experts from Israel. They subjected the tanks to more tests at the Mahajan range and were so impressed that they called it "a desert Ferrari".

'Desert Ferrari' and more

With the current status of Arjun it seems they said "Ferrari in a desert "

 

[SilentKiller]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Ferrari or not, if army should be made to order more Arjun Mk2 tanks then to waste money on T72 upgrades.
plan for govt should be 250 Arjun MK2 by 2018 with firm order of 500 Arjun MK2 to be completed by 2022, 1200 T-90 tanks (upgraded and corrected, so called AC issue which to malfunction of thermal sight..correct me if misstated).
rest required numbers can be filled with T72 with only required upgrades, in this 5-7 year time DRDO must work on next update of Arjun i.e. MK3 and we can order 1000 of them.

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

optimistic deadlines, upgrading t-72s is a logical choice, too many of them in service, cannot be discarded just like that. Not to mention, a properly upgraded t-72 (CIA upgrade is a respectable package in my opinion) is still a respectable adversary in the battlefield.

 

[SilentKiller]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Or T72 can be modified into a Heavy APC??

and around 1000 T72 can be replaced by Arjun Mk2 or mk3 gradually??

 

[Dazzler]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Or T72 can be modified into a Heavy APC??

and around 1000 T72 can be replaced by Arjun Mk2 or mk3 gradually??

Modifying t-72 into an APC would not be feasible, would be costlier than upgrading the tank itself.

The latter would also be a costly affair as a single Arjun xx variant should fill the space of multiple t-72s in terms of capability, firepower, mobility and reliability. A one on one replacement may not be necessary.

 

[SilentKiller]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Modifying t-72 into an APC would not be feasible, would be costlier than upgrading the tank itself.

The latter would also be a costly affair as a single Arjun xx variant should fill the space of multiple t-72s in terms of capability, firepower, mobility and reliability. A one on one replacement may not be necessary.

That's why only 1000 T-72's can be replaced with Arjun variants, only 500 so can be converted to HAPC's.
i believe its quite cheaper option then to keep them in stores, only 500 can be kept in stores.

India needs 300-4000 tanks in its arsenal.

Israelis are known to have done so of converting tanks to HAPC's...

 

[Shaitan]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Or T72 can be modified into a Heavy APC??

and around 1000 T72 can be replaced by Arjun Mk2 or mk3 gradually??

Waste of time.

Better to put money into these or which ever wheeled/tracked FICV design wins.


Maybe tank recovery vehicle?

 

[Zebra]

India Gives In to Russia's Terms For High-Priced Tank Ammunition | Defense News | defensenews.com

Oct. 21, 2014 - 08:55AM |
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI

NEW DELHI — The Indian Defence Ministry — faced with a shortage of ammunition for its Russian-made T-90 tanks, coupled with an inability to produce ammunition at home — has no choice but to give in to Russian terms and purchase marked-up ammo from Moscow, an MoD source said.

The MoD reluctantly agreed to the deal last month, despite the fact that Russia hiked the price by 20 percent and refused to accept offset obligations......

 

[Kunal Biswas]

^^

The T-90 tank: Piercing the army's Armour of deception
Thursday, 4 February 2010

Even more alarmingly,[ the army discovered that the T-90 sighting systems could not fire Indian tank ammunition, which was falling short of the targets. So, even as a panicked MoD appealed to the DRDO and other research institutions to re-orient the T-90's fire control computer for firing Indian ammunition, Russian ammunition was bought.

The greatest concern arose when Russia held back on its contractual obligation to transfer the technology needed to build 1,000 T-90s in India. But, instead of pressuring Russia, the MoD rewarded it in 2007 with a contract for 347 more T-90s. In an astonishing Catch-22, the MoD argued that the new purchase was needed because indigenous production had not begun.

Next month, when the T-90 is measured against the Arjun in comparative trials, the T-90s' drawbacks will not be evident. But, as officers who have operated the T-90 admit, these could be crucial handicaps in battle.

"It is for these reasons that I have consistently argued for supporting the Indian Arjun tank," says General Shankar Roy Chowdhury, former army chief and himself a tankman. "Another country can hold India hostage in many ways. We need to place an order for several hundred Arjun tanks so that economies of scale can kick in and we can bring down the price even further."

Source : Broadsword: The T-90 tank: Piercing the army's armour of deception