INSAS Indian Small Arms System

[Shaitan]

No, the length of the rifle should stay the same so that the length of the barrel can be increased so as to match the accuracy of the INSAS LMG.

What bullpop conversion does that??

 

[Shaitan]

By Marcus Aseth game-artist.net

 

[Kunal Biswas]

No, the length of the rifle should stay the same so that the length of the barrel can be increased so as to match the accuracy of the INSAS LMG.

In bull-pup the firing mechanism goes in the butt, giving much space for rest of the barrel to contain inside the rifle, Hence you have a shorter Rifle yet retaining the same barrel length..

 

[Yatharth Singh]

Blue Arrow Left: Collapsible mono-pod.
Blue Arrow Right: Empty case ejector.
Red Arrow Left: Needs wood or fibre grip over metal mono-pod housing.
Red Arrow Right: Needs modification of handle for thumb guard.

Note:

• Overall length of the rifle has been kept unchanged so as to facilitate a longer barrel.
• The empty case ejector is downwards and is about 45 mm long. The length of an empty is case is 39 mm. Should be enough.

The Bullpup design must include a UBGL too. Like the barrel can be covered and the front orange part(holding portion) can be replaced permanently with a more compact UBGL configutaion. As it is in case of other modern bullpup and not altering the length. My Personal suggestion.

 

[SPIEZ]

@Pmaitra where did you get the pic, what rifle is that more details on those please.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

Are we discussing about this,

 

[pmaitra]

@Pmaitra where did you get the pic, what rifle is that more details on those please.

Somebody made a 3D rendering for a game and posted it online. I got it from there.

 

[pmaitra]

Here are two modifications from the original INSAS 3D (bottom) rendering done for a game:

Note: Dimensions are approximate.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If some one deigning the bull-pup rifle will be shorter..

 

[pmaitra]

Cross-posting:

cr-21 and R4 assault rifle


R4 assault rifle is a license galil and CR-21 is a bullpup converted R4.

Excellent comparison.

That bull-pup offers no significant reduction in rifle size, but focuses on increasing the barrel length.

 

[Shaitan]

@pmaitra


I made a mistake labeling, that is the R-5 or R-4s carbine.

^R-4

^R-5 Carbine

So even with the same barrel length, the bullpup(cr-21) is still shorter than the carbine.

R4 & R5 Carbine

cr-21 & R5 Carbine


If this shows R4 and the bullpup, the bullpup would be significantly shorter.

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra


I made a mistake labeling, that is the R-5 or R-4s carbine.

[truncated]

So even with the same barrel length, the bullpup(cr-21) is still shorter than the carbine.

[truncated]

If this shows R4 and the bullpup, the bullpup would be significantly shorter.

Umm, not sure what you are getting at. The following link says it is an assault rifle: R4 assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Barrel length:
CR-21: 460 mm (18.1 in)
R4: 460 mm (18.1 in) (Assault Rifle)
R5: 332 mm (13.1 in) (Carbine)
R6: 280 mm (11.0 in) (Tiny-tot)

Here you go, R6 is even shorter than that bull-pup:

Now, let's look at the range:
R4: range 300–500 m with 460 mm (18.1 in) barrel.*
CR-21: range 550 m with 460 mm (18.1 in) barrel. (used data from equivalent TAR-21).

So do you see the difference, after comparing assault rifle with assault rifle? No significant reduction in length, but improvement of range.

* Sorry for too much data. I know it is confusing. That range 300-500 m refers to the range variations due to reduction of barrel size from R4 -> R5 -> R6. You want more range, you gotta have a long barrel.

 

[Shaitan]

R4 assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carbines are assault rifles too.

The one I labeled as "R4" is actually a R-5 carbine.

That bull-pup offers no significant reduction in rifle size, but focuses on increasing the barrel length

CR-21 is basically a bullpup version of the R-4. And it is significantly shorter.

r4 & r5

R5 & cr21

but focuses on increasing the barrel length

R-4 and CR-21s barrel length are the same.

 

[pmaitra]

R4 assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carbines are assault rifles too.

Of course, even the Lee-Enfield is an assault rifle, as much as an AK-47 is a machine-gun.

The one I labeled as "R4" is actually a R-5 carbine.

CR-21 is basically a bullpup version of the R-4. And it is significantly shorter.

Yeah man, I got your point. Did you get my point? Range. Again, range. Look at the stats. Shorter barrel length, smaller range.

R-4 and CR-21s barrel length are the same.

I know. I have already posted the stats. What about the range? Compare R5 and CR-21, because the overall length of these rifles (not the barrels) are same.

 

[Shaitan]

I know. I have already posted the stats. What about the range? Compare R5 and CR-21, because the overall length of these rifles (not the barrels) are same.

Why compare R5 and CR21??

CR21 was based off of R4.

CR 21 keeps the barrel length and it's a lot shorter than R4 and shorter than R5 too.

And I know, longer barrel length, more range. This is obvious.

I was only pointing out these two things when you compared R5(which I labeled R4) and CR 21.

That bull-pup offers no significant reduction in rifle size, but focuses on increasing the barrel length.

 

[pmaitra]

Why compare R5 and CR21??

CR21 was based off of R4.

CR 21 keeps the barrel length and it's a lot shorter than R4 and shorter than R5 too.

Why compare R5 and CR21?? Because (1) they have same overall length and (2) you posted their picture together.

Take that R5 or equivalent, bull-pup it into, say CR-21 or equivalent, don't reduce the length of the rifle, increase the length of the barrel, and you get a rifle with same length but increased range.

 

[pmaitra]

Why compare R5 and CR21??

CR21 was based off of R4.

CR 21 keeps the barrel length and it's a lot shorter than R4 and shorter than R5 too.

And I know, longer barrel length, more range. This is obvious.

I was only pointing out these two things when you compared R5(which I labeled R4) and CR 21.

That bull-pup offers no significant reduction in rifle size, but focuses on increasing the barrel length.

Yes, that's quite right.

Going back to my original post about INSAS, let's see the stats:
INSAS AR: barrel length 464 mm with range 400 m and muzzle velocity 915 m/s.
INSAS LMG: barrel length 535 mm with range 700 m and muzzle velocity 954 m/s.

Now, you see, why I did not want to reduce the rifle's length but increase the barrel length? I only added that shorter bull-pup drawing to make you happy.

Liquid, read up more on:

• Krinkov Brake
• Pre-Discharge Chamber

You will know why I posted those stats on the muzzle velocity.

 

[Shaitan]

Why compare R5 and CR21?? Because (1) they have same overall length and (2) you posted their picture together.

Take that R5 or equivalent, bull-pup it into, say CR-21 or equivalent, don't reduce the length of the rifle, increase the length of the barrel, and you get a rifle with same length but increased range.

Pmaitra, R5 and CR 21 do not have the same overall length.

(2) you posted their picture together.

Man, I told you from the start it was a mistake and this is the R4.

The CR-21 like every other bullpup-assault rifle conversion keeps the overall barrel length. They dont increase the length of the barrell.

Now, you see, why I did not want to reduce the rifle's length but increase the barrel length? I only added that shorter bull-pup drawing to make you happy.

Make another one that has the same barrel length, that'll make me happy.:taunt1:

 

[pmaitra]

Pmaitra, R5 and CR 21 do not have the same overall length.

They do, see the picture you posted. Very slight difference in overall length. Not exactly the same.

Man, I told you from the start it was a mistake and this is the R4.

I got your point. That is why I posted stats of all the rifles, R4, R5, R6.

The CR-21 like every other bullpup-assault rifle conversion keeps the overall barrel length. They dont increase the length of the barrell.

You are right, and that is exactly what I don't want to do. I wanted to increase the barrel length without making the rifle longer. My priority is range.

Make another one that has the same barrel length, that'll make me happy.:taunt1:

Nah, I think I have already proposed what I want out of INSAS: increased barrel length and range without increasing the rifle's overall length.

Perhaps you can make a drawing and share with us.

 

[Kunal Biswas]