MMRCA - a completely unnecessary purchase, whose costs outweighs its tactical utility
dear a country can not run on your - "i HOPE " I THINK , MIGHT BE ,should be , and that will, chances are ,
Tejas took too much time to come -- and still its not there what it was expected to be, the incompetence level of babus can not govern the future of this country, mrca and other will and should come in picture there is enough space for both MRCA and At least 300 tejas if tejas becomes fully functional to its epitome .
Tejas was never conceived with Indian Navy in mind, thats why I spoke of in a concillatory tone. Don't club the two services together, as well as my attitude towards one of them.
On the other hand, it is the IAF that framed the Air Staff Qualitative Requirements(ASQR). When an aircraft with the same engine, designed and developed by a foreign manufacturer yields to 6570 kgs in empty weight and gets accepted by more than one professional air force other othan the country of origin. I'm talking about JAS-39 gripen. U can't expect a newly formed ADA to develop an aircraft with 5000 kgs emty weight still having Multi-mode radar, internal fuel for a combat radius of 800 kms in hi hi hi configuration with combat load greater than the fighter u r replacing.
Babus are incompetant al rite. So are the rest of us for not challenging their decisions. They are making a decision to throw away $ 10 billion under pressure from IAF without completing the ground analysis. The MMRCA is no strategic investment, it is just an ad hoc move on the chess board to stave off Hard, Real circumstances that will come to haunt us in the future.
People talk of strategic value of deal, can anyone put down their feet and say which country would come out guns blazing with fighter replacements due to attriction to help India if a war broke out on two fronts with China and pakistan? No Europeon country or Russia would dare hold even a candle to china, no other country other than US has the might to stand against China? But the interest of USA lay in preseving the balance of power thereby enthuing peace than escalate the conflict. In short words, US congress would sue for peace, taking us to UN while chinese forces conquer more territory.
Compared to us pakistan is better in terms of home grown technology eg Raad missiles, Babur. Even if we cut off Karkoram, pakistan can produce JF-17, Al Khalid and lots and lots even in face of tremendous attriction. Western arms manufacturers shunning pakistan and its begging bowls have become a boon for indigenisation of its industry. We are probably better off on anti-ballistics technology to pakistan. But thats no cause for comfort.
Is India so far off compared to pakistan's begging bowl state?
NO, India plans to spend
$ 112 billion through 2017. We have
external debts of $ 237.69 billion, our
trade deficit is $ 135 billion. Our
reseves are at $ 283.5 billion and
forign direct ivestment are $ 50 billion for current fiscal year. Suming inflow -outflow = -39.19. If
FDI does not catch up to outflow due to trade deficit, external debt will widen which affects our ratings reflecting in higher lending rates on foreign banks lending to us for arms procurement. This leads to increased procurement costs, added to the
15% arms inflation faced every year. Your deal is not going to be capped to
$ 10.54 determined in 2007, just the outright purchases will cost when signing by 2012 10.54*(1+0.15)^5 = $ 21.1997 billion. Along with interest from the bank at just 5% per annum if v r lucky, will cost $ 27.056 billion cumulative till 2017., which is 24% of the procurement budget.This does not even take into account the spare parts cost and is certainly not the total life cycle cost which when calculated in line with other programs leads to 77.1096 over 30 years. If one of the external factors like FDI drops to 0, Indian credit ratings will drop which leads to higher interest rates not just on weapons imports but also palm oil, rice, sugar and every other essential commodity we would be required to buy from abroad that involves foreign exchange, which necessiates increase in taxes. And guess who pays taxes yourself, my father and the very poor that u see struggling to make their ends meet. if you are thinking of buying that fancy house on ECR that u always wanted when u r 30, guess what u need to wait till retirement. This might seem overboard but this is the summation of all the worse that may happen in this world thats essentially unstable due to the weakness of its reserve currency the Dollar. After all, every military motto and planning imply "Hope for the best; prepare for the worst"
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/india-trade-deficit-seen-at-alltime-high/682324/
Why should we need to add too many platforms that only seve to duplicate the capabilities afforded by Tejas and Su-30 mki? Wastage of resources is a serious crime IAF will never be punished for (abandoning Tejas Mk-1 conceived from its own requirements just becos its late and new alternatives are mouth watering).Cancelling this one deal cut down the imports to indegenous product ratio to 6:4 from current 6.5:3.5 ,
Now tell me who is itching to buy that fancy new plane for IAF?:angry_10:
Here are comparisons of Aircraft LCA tejas was conceived to replace
Specifications (Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21-93)
Data from [1]
General characteristics
* Crew: 1
* Length: 14.5 (with pitot) m (47 ft 6.86 in)
* Wingspan: 7.154 m (23 ft 5.66 in)
* Height: 4.125 m (13 ft 6.41 in)
* Wing area: 23.0 m² (247.3 ft²)
* Gross weight: 8,825 kg (19,425 lb)
* Powerplant: 1 × Tumanskiy R25-300, 40.21 kN (9,040 lbf) thrust dry, 69.62 kN (15,650 lbf) with afterburner each
Performance
* Maximum speed: 2,350 km/h (1,468 mph)
* Maximum speed: Mach 1.9
* Range: (internal fuel) 1,210 km (751 miles)
* Service ceiling: 17,800 m (58,400 ft)
* Rate of climb: 225 m/s (44,280 ft/min)
Armament
* 1x internal 23 mm GSh-23 cannon, plus
* 2x R-27R1 or R-27T or 4x Vympel R-77 or 4x R-60M or R-73E AAM or
* 2x 500 kg (1,102 lbs) bombs
Specifications (MiG-27K)
General characteristics
* Crew: 1 Pilot only
* Length: 1,708 cm (56 ft 0 in) [2] ()
* Wingspan:
o Spread: 1,397 cm (45 ft 10 in) [2]
o Swept: 778 cm (25 ft 6 in) [2] ()
* Height: 500 cm (16 ft 5 in) [2] ()
* Wing area:
o Spread: 37.35 m2 (402.0 sq ft) [2]
o Swept: 34.16 m2 (367.7 sq ft) [2] ()
* Empty weight: 11,908 kg (26,253 lb) (equipped) [2] ()
* Loaded weight: 20,300 kg (44,800 lb) [2] ()
* Max takeoff weight: 20,670 kg (45,570 lb) ()
* Powerplant: 1× Khatchaturov R-29B-300 afterburning turbojet [2]
o Dry thrust: 78.5 kN (17,650 lbf) [2] ()
o Thrust with afterburner: 112.8 kN (25,360 lbf) [2] ()
Performance
* Maximum speed:
o at sea level: Mach 1.10 (1,350 km/h, 839 mph) [2]
o at 8,000-metre altitude (26,250 ft): Mach 1.77 (1,885 km/h, 1,171 mph) [2]
* Combat radius: 780 km (480 mi) ()
o 540 km (290 nmi; 340 mi) (with two Kh-29 ASMs and three drop tanks lo-lo-lo) [2]
o 225 km (120 nmi; 140 mi) (with two Kh-29 ASMs and no external fuel) [2]
* Ferry range: 2,500 km (1,550 mi) ()
* Service ceiling: 14,000 m (46,000 ft) [2] ()
* Rate of climb: 200 m/s (39,400 ft/min) [2] ()
* Wing loading: 605 kg/m² (123.4 lb/ft²) ()
* Thrust/weight: 0.62
Armament
* Guns:
o 1 × GSh-6-30 30 mm cannon with 260-300 rounds [2]
o installed gun pods for (optional) SPPU-22 and SPPU-6
* Hardpoints: One centerline, four fuselage, and two wing glove pylons with a capacity of 4,000 kg (8,800 lb) [2]
* Missiles: preinstalled rocket pods for various (optional) laser, TV and electro-optically guided ASMs and PGMs [2]
* Bombs: general-purpose bombs (optional) [2]
Specifications (Jaguar A)
Orthographically projected diagram of the SEPECAT Jaguar.
The Rolls-Royce Turbomeca Adour Mk 102 turbofan engine.
Data from[citation needed]
General characteristics
* Crew: One
* Length: 16.83 m (55 ft 3 in)
* Wingspan: 8.69 m (28 ft 6 in)
* Height: 4.92 m (16 ft 1 in)
* Wing area: 24 m² (258 ft²)
* Empty weight: 7,000 kg (15,400 lb)
* Loaded weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 15,700 kg (34,600 lb)
* Powerplant: 2× Rolls-Royce/Turbomeca Adour Mk 102 turbofans, 32.5 kN (7,305 lbf) each
Performance
* Maximum speed: 1,593 km/h, 1055 mph (Mach 1.6)
* Range: 535 km (335 mi)
* Ferry range: 3,525 km (2,190 mi)
* Service ceiling: 14,000 m (46,000 ft)
* Thrust/weight: 0.60
Armament
* Guns: 2× 30 mm (1.18 in) ADEN cannons or DEFA cannons, 150 rounds/gun
* Hardpoints: 5 total: 4× under-wing and 1× center-line pylon stations with a capacity of 10,000 lb (4,500 kg) and provisions to carry combinations of:
o Rockets: 8× Matra rocket pods with 18× SNEB 68 mm rockets each
o Missiles: Anglo-French AS-37 Martel missiles
o Bombs: various
o Other: AN/ALQ-101 ECM protection pod (found only on RAF's Jaguar GR.3/3A),[15] Joint Reconnaissance Pod, external drop tanks for extended range/loitering time
* Missiles: 2× AIM-9 Sidewinders or Matra R550 Magics on overwing pylons (Jaguar International and RAF Jaguars only)
Specifications (HAL Tejas)
Three view of the Tejas
Data from lca-tejas.org,[69] indian-military.org[70][verification needed]
General characteristics
* Crew: 1
* Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
* Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
* Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
* Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
* Empty weight: 5,680kg (12,522 lb)
* Loaded weight: 9,500 kg (20,945 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 13,500 kg (31,967 lb)
* Powerplant: 1× General Electric F404-GE-IN20 turbofan
o Dry thrust: 53.9 kN (11,250 lbf)
o Thrust with afterburner: 85 kN (19,000 lbf)
* Internal fuel capacity: 3000 liters
* External fuel capacity: 5×800 liter tanks or 3×1,200 liter tanks, totaling 4,000/3,600 liters
Performance
* Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (2,376+ km/h at high altitude) at 15,000 m
* Range: 3000 km (1,840 mi (without refueling))
* Service ceiling: 16,500 m (54,000 ft (engine re-igniter safely capable))
* Wing loading: 221.4 kg/m² (45.35 lb/ft²)
* Thrust/weight: .91
Armament
* Guns: 1× mounted 23 mm twin-barrel GSh-23 cannon with 220 rounds of ammunition.
* Hardpoints: 8 total: 1× beneath the port-side intake trunk, 6× under-wing, and 1× under-fuselage with a capacity of >4000 kg external fuel and ordnance
* Missiles:
HAL Tejas carrying R-73 missile and Drop Tank.
* Air-to-air missiles:
o Python 5
o Derby
o Astra BVRAAM
o Vympel R-77 (NATO reporting name: AA-12 Adder)
o Vympel R-73 (NATO reporting name: AA-11 Archer)
* Air-to-surface missiles:
o Kh-59ME TV guided standoff Missile
o Kh-59MK Laser guided standoff Missile
o Anti-ship missile
o Kh-35
o Kh-31
* Bombs:
* KAB-1500L laser guided bombs
* FAB-500T dumb bombs
* OFAB-250-270 dumb bombs
* OFAB-100-120 dumb bombs
* RBK-500 cluster bombs
* Others:
* Drop tanks for ferry flight/extended range/loitering time.
* LITENING targeting pod [71][72][73]
Avionics
Hybrid MMR radar (Israeli EL/M-2032 back end processor with Indian inputs)
Tell me can't Tejas mk-1 be a better replacement for 125 Mig-21 in service which are waiting for MMRCA to replace them, Can't the Tejas mk-2 replace Mig-27 and Jaguar which are schelluled to retire from 2017 onwards. Su-30 planes replaced mig-23 in IAF service which is essentially a ground attack plane, I don't see anyone complaining about it,
Isn't increased orders for Su-30 mki enough to hold fort and complement till Tejas can mature into a frontline plane in its own right?