- Joined
- May 5, 2011
- Messages
- 12,846
- Likes
- 8,556
You doubt that Russia is part of the Western civilization?What makes you say that?
You doubt that Russia is part of the Western civilization?What makes you say that?
Pyotr attempted to remodel Russian society and polity along Western lines, but he did not make it an integral part of the West. His efforts can be broadly compared to those Ataturk, though Turkey would not be considered part of the "West" either.Tsar Peter said so.
Did most Europeans really dwell on What and who is "The West?" or did they primarily seek trade and wealth? The idea of self-contemplation seems only to be a subject suitable for academics.The concept [West versus East] still seemed to have considerable meaning to the Europeans of the 18th and 19th centuries.
Yeah. That's why I asked the question.You doubt that Russia is part of the Western civilization?
For Europeans of that time period the 'West' was basically European Christendom and its offshoots (America, Australia, etc.)Did most Europeans really dwell on What and who is "The West?" or did they primarily seek trade and wealth? The idea of self-contemplation seems only to be a subject suitable for academics.
What aspects of Russian culture are distinctly 'Western'? Russian religion, language, and even script are all distinct from the West. Russian politics, economics, and society have always been markedly different from the 'West', long before the 20th century.I think it is part of the Western civilization, at least culturally. This is specially true in the great Russian centers of St. Petersburg and Moscow. In the last century however Russia has diverged significantly in terms of politics and economics.
Language not Western? What is Western language anyway? English? French? Italian? German? These are all different languages... just like how different Russian is to these languages. So you cannot claim Easternness from the Russian language. Maybe "Eastern Europeanness," which, BTW is still "European," thus, part of the "Western civilization."What aspects of Russian culture are distinctly 'Western'? Russian religion, language, and even script are all distinct from the West. Russian politics, economics, and society have always been markedly different from the 'West', long before the 20th century.
Unlike the 'West', which has its ultimate roots in the (Western) Roman Empire, Russia has its roots in the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire, and has also been greatly influenced by Asiatic cultures like the Khazars and Mongols/Tatars. Also, Russia never underwent the same historical processes like the Renaissance, Reformation, and Enlightenment that created the modern West. Russia developed in its own unique manner and therefore deserves to be treated as a distinct civilizational entity (other Orthodox nations like Bulgaria, Serbia, etc. do not belong to the West either; they can be said to belong to the same greater civilization as Russia).
Western languages are the Romance and Germanic languages. Of course, language by itself is not an indicator of which civilization a country belongs.Language not Western? What is Western language anyway? English? French? Italian? German? These are all different languages... just like how different Russian is to these languages. So you cannot claim Easternness from the Russian language. Maybe "Eastern Europeanness," which, BTW is still "European."
Yeah, Russian music has been influenced by the West. So has Russian dance and painting. But do these things really define what Russia is and stands for?Maybe you don't listen to classical music? Prokofiev? Rachmaninoff? Stravinsky? Tchaikovsky? Take some time off reading about leftist materials and start relaxing and exploring the wonderful world of classical music. I guarantee you it will do you a lot of good.
You're actually right. When people say "Western" values, they actually mean "American values".Right now the west is American culture, popular culture. Which is influenced by others. From Africa to Europe.
You're actually right. When people say "Western" values, they actually mean "American values".
Without America, the West as it stands today is nothing.
In practice, for decades, and as we speak, right now, in UK, France, Germany, and, <surprise, surprise>, the US of A.Marxism as an idea may have originated from the West but they never put it into practice.
Free Market and Globalization is not commonly called Capitalism (with the exception of the common man, I suppose). Neither is Free Market Capitalism, nor is Globalization.Anyway, the Western Bloc should largely refer to the NATO countries of the Western hemisphere. Their most important contributions aside from the defeat of the USSR are Western democracy (parliamentary systems or presidential in the case of America), free market and globalization (capitalism as it is commonly called).
Capitalist countries can never be liberal, leave alone democratic.That's why we have to define in what context are we discussing the issue of the "West." The historical context of "Western civilization" as distinguished from "Eastern civilization" or the 20th century demarcation of "West" (Western bloc - referring to capitalist and liberal democratic countries) or the "East" (referring to the Eastern Bloc countries of the former USSR and those influenced by them, that are socialist oriented).
Marxism is practiced in the West eh? Have they already abolished private ownership...? The "proletariat" already directly control the means of production in these countries?In practice, for decades, and as we speak, right now, in UK, France, Germany, and, <surprise, surprise>, the US of A.
Just consider capitalism the generic term and the other terms you mentioned as variations of that generic term. Anyway, you don't need to lecture me on those matters.Free Market and Globalization is not commonly called Capitalism (with the exception of the common man, I suppose). Neither is Free Market Capitalism, nor is Globalization.
Okay, I get the drift...Capitalist countries can never be liberal, leave alone democratic.
Democracy results in Socialism, Plutocracy results in Capitalism; and in each case, the other way around as well.
Marxism is practiced in the West eh?
No, but the drift exists: Microsoft ordered to split into two companies | Technology | guardian.co.ukHave they already abolished private ownership...?
Farmers are subsidized, so yes, the USA is more benevolent towards the peasants, than Marx himself.The "proletariat" already directly control the means of production in these countries?
I'd rather not consider Capitalism as a generic term. You may prefer to use it for your convenience, but it is not what you think. I will lecture you, but it is your choice to absorb or deflect.Just consider capitalism the generic term and the other terms you mentioned as variations of that generic term. Anyway, you don't need to lecture me on those matters.
Thanks!Okay, I get the drift...
You're tuning in too much to Tea Party ignoramus claims. The US is no more socialist than Russia is culturally Asian...
EBT Card.
I was being rhetorical. Marxism is not practiced per se, but socialism is. The USA is more socialist than the Russian Federation.
No, but the drift exists: Microsoft ordered to split into two companies | Technology | guardian.co.uk
Farmers are subsidized, so yes, the USA is more benevolent towards the peasants, than Marx himself.
Here I did you a favor... Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaI'd rather not consider Capitalism as a generic term. You may prefer to use it for your convenience, but it is not what you think. I will lecture you, but it is your choice to absorb or deflect.
Not quite.Thanks!
Please elaborate.You're tuning in too much to Tea Party ignoramus claims. The US is no more socialist than Russia is culturally Asian...
And that link proves me wrong? How? Demonstrate. Just don't post links to appear 'correct.'Here I did you a favor... Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Glib.Not quite.
Please elaborate.
Absolutely.And that link proves me wrong?