Warriors of Gujarat

[cereal killer]

Nowadays it's typical baniyas there. Wonder how so much did the Jain Dharma eat up their brains that they resorted to unbelievable levels of non-violence for decades (if not centuries) to come??!!! For eg., Gandhi.

Yep business minded people. Not many people join Army there, not any dedicated regiment to Gujarat too. However they are contributing to the country in their own way in terms of building our Economy.

 

[Lancer]

Nowadays it's typical baniyas there. Wonder how so much did the Jain Dharma eat up their brains that they resorted to unbelievable levels of non-violence for decades (if not centuries) to come??!!! For eg., Gandhi.

Gujarat gave Gandhi, but also gave Patel. And 2002, in recent history remains one of the greatest demonstrations of Hindu consolidation and power - from which the country currently got Modi and Shah.

A lot of states in India could use such consolidation and leadership.

 

[Chimaji Appa]

Some Gujarati warriors:
Lavanaprasada Solanki: Fought hard and drove the Ghurids out of Patan following the sack of the city in 1196
Kumarapala Solanki: Beat Chauhans in Sambhar, Konkani Silharas, and Malwa (conquered by his brahman general Kaka).
Vastupala and Tejahapala: 2 Baniya generals in the Vaghela army.

 

[Lancer]

3. Agreed that the north did not save muslim invasions from the south.

Context is important, nobody is saying that the South was exclusively saved by the North or didn't do anything; but they definitely benefitted from the North taking on and absorbing the impacts of most invasions in history.

They also benefitted immensely from geography (ocean on 3 sides, Mountain Chains/Deccan on the North, covered in dense jungles as well).

 

[Jay99]

During World War II, about 1000 Polish children found refuge in Nawanagar, Gujarat. The benefactor was Jam Saheb Digvijaysinhji Ranjitsinhji Jadeja, the Maharaja of Jamnagar, an erstwhile princely state in the Kathiawad peninsula of Gujarat. 'Little Poland in India' is a 52 minute documentary, directed and scripted by Anu Radha.The film is co-produced by Governments of India and Poland with the participation of Government of Gujarat, Doordarshan and Polish TV organizations. The success led the director, Anu Radha being awarded Bene Merito by the Polish Government.

The Jam Saheb took personal risks to make arrangements for homeless orphan Polish children when the world was at war and India was struggling for its independence. He built a camp for them in Balachadi beside his summer palace, 25 kms from Jamnagar. The children were made to feel at home.

At Balachadi camp, now stands Sainik Schoo, Balachadi. Jamsaheb used to say, 'Do not consider yourself orphans any more, you are now Nawanagaris and I am Bapu, father of all the people of Nawanagar, so also yours.' Due to these reasons The Good Maharaja Square, 'Dobrego Haharadzy' to nourish Jam Saheb's memory. There is also a Jam Saheb School running in Warsaw.

When Poland came to India - Free Press Journal

How Maharajah Digvijaysinhji (also known as Jam Sahib) of Nawanagar (now Jamnagar) gave refuge to hundreds of Polish children and women (out of the 5,000 that came to India) during World War II.

 

[Jay99]

There are many folklore stories of brave rajputs of gujarat who fought the Muslim invaders. being a gohil rajput myself we still worship our legendary forefathers Mokhdaji gohil & hamirji gohil who fought saving thes somnath temple. There are few videos of their story on youtube however they are in gujarati

 

[Chimaji Appa]

Context is important, nobody is saying that the South was exclusively saved by the North or didn't do anything; but they definitely benefitted from the North taking on and absorbing the impacts of most invasions in history.

They also benefitted immensely from geography (ocean on 3 sides, Mountain Chains/Deccan on the North, covered in dense jungles as well).

Oh definetly. South never faced as much muslim threat as we did, we had muslims establish right in our heartland. Yeah, they were saved for a time, but Kafurs campaign against them showed that geography alone couldnt save them.

Bahmanids were not a very strong Sultanate, as seen by how Gujarat Sultanate could easily annex the Konkan or how Khalji of Malwa sacked the capital of Berar. Armies of these 2 sultanates were routinely beatn by rajputana. It was this Bahmanids which trouble vijayanagr for over a century,

 

[Chimaji Appa]

Not many people know that Gujarat had the highest number of Erstwhile princely states in India. Mostly Rajputs & Kathi's . Common Rajput Clans across Gujarat are

Jhala
Parmar(sodha)
jadeja
Chudasama
Gohil
Sarvaiya
Vala

If anyone is interested in further research here's the webiste

http://www.indianrajputs.com/princelystates.php

No Solankis?

 

[Lancer]

There are many folklore stories of brave rajputs of gujarat who fought the Muslim invaders. being a gohil rajput myself we still worship our legendary forefathers Mokhdaji gohil & hamirji gohil who fought saving thes somnath temple. There are few videos of their story on youtube however they are in gujarati

"Koi aave na aave maari saathe..."

 

[cereal killer]

Context is important, nobody is saying that the South was exclusively saved by the North or didn't do anything; but they definitely benefitted from the North taking on and absorbing the impacts of most invasions in history.

They also benefitted immensely from geography (ocean on 3 sides, Mountain Chains/Deccan on the North, covered in dense jungles as well).

Punjab, J&K has bore the brunt of invasions from ancient times. Alexander, Greeks, Huns, Kushans & then of course Turks.

 

[Lancer]

Punjab, J&K has bore the brunt of invasions from ancient times. Alexander, Greeks, Huns, Kushans & then of course Turks.

Yes, hence all the severe devastation and conversion/high % of Muslims. Thankfully the Sikhs finally plugged those passes and controlled that area before the Brits came - which is why today we still have a non-Muslim part of Punjab and some leftover Pandits, along w/ control over J&K.

 

[Pulakeshin]

Yes, hence all the severe devastation and conversion/high % of Muslims. Thankfully the Sikhs finally plugged those passes and controlled that area before the Brits came - which is why today we still have a non-Muslim part of Punjab and some leftover Pandits, along w/ control over J&K.

Should we start promoting Sikhism in Pakistan? Pakistan seem to hat Hinduism but are overawed by the Sikhs. We should start some small movement where Pakistani Muslims are converted to Sikhism. They won't even have a problem since both are monotheistic faiths.

 

[cereal killer]

Yes, hence all the severe devastation and conversion/high % of Muslims. Thankfully the Sikhs finally plugged those passes and controlled that area before the Brits came - which is why today we still have a non-Muslim part of Punjab and some leftover Pandits, along w/ control over J&K.

You are partially correct. Majority hindu remnants got destroyed both in Punjab & J&K over the course of time. GB & other far flung areas were under Afghan control throughout so no surprises there. Kashmir tragically fell into Muslim hands... It's quite a sorry tale due to incompetent kings as terrain was not easy to occupy for invaders. Sikhs had success but they found tough to control hindu Dogras so ultimately they allied with them & some recovery started.
Fact is people still old find temples in North India but North west India was most severely struck with foreign invasion.

 

[Lancer]

Should we start promoting Sikhism in Pakistan? Pakistan seem to hat Hinduism but are overawed by the Sikhs. We should start some small movement where Pakistani Muslims are converted to Sikhism. They won't even have a problem since both are monotheistic faiths.

I don't know about that; they actually hate Sikhs even more (all the sweet talk in public is just lip service to turn Sikhs against India).

Nowadays in Pakistan, even being the wrong type of Muslim (Shia, Ahamdi) gets you killed - converting out of the faith is a different matter. Plus, "apostasy" is punishable by death in Islamic countries.

 

[Jaymax61]

I don't know about that; they actually hate Sikhs even more (all the sweet talk in public is just lip service to turn Sikhs against India).

Nowadays in Pakistan, even being the wrong type of Muslim (Shia, Ahamdi) gets you killed - converting out of the faith is a different matter. Plus, "apostasy" is punishable by death in Islamic countries.

Pakistan wants Sikhs to like it. Pakistan also wants Sikhs to stop supporting India especially Indian Army.

But Pakistan charges poor Sikh farmers over INR 1100 per head to visit their Shrine in the Kartarpur corridor. Pakistan also mistreats its Sikh population.

Pakistan is confused.

Sikhs silently wish Modi takes Kartarpur too when he takes PoK

 

[Pulakeshin]

I don't know about that; they actually hate Sikhs even more (all the sweet talk in public is just lip service to turn Sikhs against India).

Nowadays in Pakistan, even being the wrong type of Muslim (Shia, Ahamdi) gets you killed - converting out of the faith is a different matter. Plus, "apostasy" is punishable by death in Islamic countries.

But still I get the feeling that Pakis tend to respect the Sikhs. They have a strong disdain for Hindus on the other hand. Look at Afridi, he mentions that he had very good friendship with Harbhajan Singh and Yuvraj Singh who are both Sikhs. These things are subtle but you notice it easily. They attribute most of their setbacks in wars to the valor of the Sikhs. The hatred was strong during Partition but now I don't think there is as much hatred.

Which brings us back: I think India should sponsor Sikh people in Pakistan to draw Muslims to the Sikh faith and convert them.

 

[Pulakeshin]

I think Gujaratis have produced two big leaders for both India and Pakistan: Gandhi and Jinnah. Apart from them, there is Sardar Patel, the Ambani family, etc. Gujaratis are great businessmen who I highly respect.

Just wanted to ask: what proportion of Gujaratis are Marwaris, Rajputs, etc. Also, why don't Marwaris participate more in military? Because they should.

 

[BangaliBabu]

I think Gujaratis have produced two big leaders for both India and Pakistan: Gandhi and Jinnah. Apart from them, there is Sardar Patel, the Ambani family, etc. Gujaratis are great businessmen who I highly respect.

Just wanted to ask: what proportion of Gujaratis are Marwaris, Rajputs, etc. Also, why don't Marwaris participate more in military? Because they should.

money speaks more. In the long run, most of them are basically the domestic version of Rothschilds.

 

[Lancer]

Just wanted to ask: what proportion of Gujaratis are Marwaris, Rajputs, etc. Also, why don't Marwaris participate more in military? Because they should.

I think by the term "Marwari" - what you actually mean is Baniyas/Vaishyas.

In GUJ and RAJ, they are generally either Vaishnav Hindu or Jain - forget meat or even eggs, they usually don't even eat garlic or onion, and most aren't remotely inclined for violence in physique or thought - modern day exceptions (especially among officer class) emerging from urban settings are precisely that: exceptions.

In most places - military recruitment either comes from groups who identify as Kshatriyas, militarily inclined OBC groups (which occasionally gives you hybrid Kshatriya OBC's), or Tribals. Gujarat has Rajputs/Durbaars - who make up the bulk of our Army recruitment, along with some Tribals/OBC "Kshatriya" groups and occasionally the odd Muslim- but Gujarat doesn't really have too many martial peasant groups (Jaats, Gujjars, Ahirs/Yadavs, Marathas etc).

I've known a few Patel families with family members in the Army (Major Rushikesh Ramani was one such example); but mostly they don't sign up for military service.

As recruitment, especially of officers, expands in terms of geographical spread and people move to urban settings with greater prosperity (leading to improved modern nutrition + fitness) - we will likely see more people from areas/groups that traditionally didn't send as many soldiers.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Gujarat more audience of war than participant? State has high nationalistic fervour, but ranks low on army recruitment.

The recruitment of Gujaratis in the army is significantly low. Between 2015 and 2018, Gujarat, including Dadra and Nagar Haveli, Daman and Diu, sent just 3,199 men to the army.

The memory of India’s air strike on the militant camps in Balakot, Pakistan, will stir the emotions of Gujaratis as they queue up to cast their votes on 23 April. In their ears will echo the boast of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who said in Jamnagar early March, “Humara siddhant hai, hum ghuske marenge [It is our principle to enter (the enemy's) home and attack.]” It will likely inspire them to back Modi – he is, after all, Gujarat’s son, who dared Pakistan as no other Indian prime minister did previously. Expect Gujaratis to ride the tide of nationalistic fervour to the polling booth, not least because nationalism satisfies the state’s famed mercantile instinct for a homogeneously unified market.

Yet, Gujarat’s nationalistic passion has been ridiculed as pseudo. This is largely because Gujaratis constitute a minuscule percentage of the Indian Army. For instance, in May 2017, Samajwadi Party leader Akhilesh Yadav taunted, “Jawans from Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, south India and other parts of the country have sacrificed their lives, but tell me whether anyone has been martyred from Gujarat.”

Yadav was roasted on social media for depicting the nationalism of Gujaratis as one of convenience, and for arguing that the community does not have to pay a price for war-mongering. But this has not deterred him from voicing his disdain for the jingoism of Gujaratis. The SP’s manifesto for the 2019 Lok Sabha election, under the chapter, 'National Security, Not Pseudo-Nationalism', states, “We propose to raise an Ahir Armoured Regiment and a Gujarat Infantry Regiment.”

The manifesto is decidedly a dig at the Gujaratis. The Ahirs or the Yadav caste, to which Akhilesh belongs, has been traditionally recruited in the Indian Army in large numbers. Steven I Wilkinson in his book, Army and Nation: The Military and Indian Democracy since Independence, provides the figures of principal ethnic groups represented in the Indian Infantry. In December 1947, the Ahirs constituted 2.8 percent of the infantry troops. In asking for an exclusive Ahir armoured regiment, Yadav is displaying the readiness of his caste to opt for the rough and dangerous life of the Army.

Wilkinson’s magisterial book does not provide figures for any caste from Gujarat, which was then a part of the Bombay Presidency. However, in 2018, Devji Patel and AT Nana Patil, both Bharatiya Janata Party MPs, had asked a question in Parliament – unstarred question no. 302 – seeking information on state-wise recruitment for the Indian Army.

The Ministry of Defence, on 12 December, 2018, provided the count of personnel recruited from different states between 2015 and 2018. These figures were arranged under the columns of JCO/Other Ranks. It excluded officers as state-wise data pertaining to them is not maintained. The JCO stands for Junior Commissioned Officers and includes Naib Subedar, Subedar, and Subedar Major. Other ranks comprise Sepoy, Lance Naik, Nail and Havaldar.

The recruitment of Gujaratis in the army is significantly low. Between 2015 and 2018, Gujarat, including Dadra and Nagar Haveli, Daman and Diu, sent just 3,199 men to the army. By comparison, Uttar Pradesh accounted for 22,712 recruits, Uttarakhand 10,134, and Punjab 14,657. Gujarat, however, was way ahead of, say, Meghalaya, which, in the same period, sent 302 men to the army, and Tripura, which accounted for 1,370 recruits.

The differences in army recruitment between states are linked to their populations. For instance, it can be said that Uttar Pradesh sends nearly seven times more men to the army than Gujarat because the former has a population three times larger than the latter. Likewise, Gujarat is nearly 20 times more populated than Meghalaya.

In order to iron out the huge population differential existing among states, the two writers used the figures provided by the Ministry of Defence in 2018 to calculate the number of army recruits for every one lakh people of each state. The table (see Table I) shows Gujarat taking the 28th slot, or last but one. Between 2015 and 2018, Gujarat sent roughly 5 men for every lakh of Gujaratis. By comparison, the army recruited 11 men for every lakh of people in Uttar Pradesh, a whopping 100 men for every lakh in Uttarakhand, and 51 men for every lakh in Punjab. Himachal Pradesh topped the table with 111 men for every lakh.

Table I: Junior Commissioned Officers Recruitment in proportion to Population
Sl. No.	State/UT	Recruitment 2015 to 2018	Population (in Crores)	Recruitment per 1 LakhPopulation (2015 to 2018)
1	Himachal Pradesh	7622	0.69	111.03
2	Uttarakhand	10134	1.01	100.47
3	Punjab including Chandigarh	14657	2.88	50.89
4	Jammu & Kashmir	6275	1.25	50.03
5	Sikkim	303	0.06	49.63
6	Haryana	11512	2.54	45.41
7	Arunachal Pradesh	627	0.14	45.31
8	Mizoram	431	0.11	39.28
9	Tripura*	1370	0.37	37.29
10	Manipur	1006	0.29	35.23
11	Rajasthan	14340	6.85	20.92
12	Nagaland	343	0.20	17.34
13	Kerala	5287	3.34	15.83
14	Maharashtra	13922	11.24	12.39
15	Uttar Pradesh	22712	19.98	11.37
16	Madhya Pradesh	8046	7.26	11.08
17	Delhi	1770	1.68	10.54
18	Meghalaya	302	0.30	10.18
19	Assam	2956	3.12	9.47
20	West Bengal	8375	9.13	9.18
21	Bihar	9523	10.41	9.15
22	Chhattisgarh	2275	2.55	8.91
23	Tamil Nadu, A&N Islands, Puducherry	6383	7.38	8.65
24	Andhra Pradesh including Telangana	6408	8.46	7.58
25	Jharkhand	2491	3.30	7.55
26	Karnataka including Lakshadweep	4271	6.12	6.98
27	Odisha	2912	4.20	6.94
28	Gujarat including Dadra & Nagar Haveli, Daman & Diu	3199	6.10	5.24
29	Goa	67	0.15	4.59
The above date shows the recruitment of JCOs/Other Ranks State-wise data relating to recruitment of officers is not maintained. *Tripura's GSDP values of 2015-2016 are taken The population of Dadra & Nagar Haveli and Daman & Diu is 5.86 lakhs

There is, obviously, a historical reason why certain states, despite their small size, have a high representation in the army. In the colonial era, the British designated certain social groups as martial races. Wilkinson, who is a professor at Yale University, wrote: “The system goes back to the nineteenth century, when the British designated certain groups, such as Sikhs and Gorkhas, as ‘martial classes’ (often termed ‘martial races’) and recruited them disproportionately on the basis of their presumed martial abilities and traditions as well as their proven loyalty.”

The revolt of 1857 further reinforced this tendency – the British reduced recruitment from Oudh, Bihar and the Central Provinces, from where the bulk of the military mutineers had come. They, instead, turned to the North West Frontier Provinces and Punjab for recruitment. By the 1890s, the ethnic composition of the British Indian Army had fallen into a consistent pattern – and was to remain so until India’s Independence. In the main, it consisted of, as Wilkinson writes, “a heavily Punjabi and Pashtun force from Punjab and the NWFP, with significant numbers of ‘martial class’ Gorkhas, Rajputs, Dogras, Garhwalis, Jats, and Marathas, and very little representation of anyone else.”

Indeed, if Himachal Pradesh and Uttarakhand continue to send a relatively higher number of men to the army, it is because the Rajputs dominate their population. They account for nearly 33 percent of Himachal Pradesh’s population and 35 percent of Uttarakhand’s. Columnist Aakar Patel cites the British’s propensity to recruit from martial races as one of the reasons to explain Gujarat’s lack of zeal to enter the army. “There are some ‘martial’ communities in Gujarat, and these are the ones that join the army. Among them are the durbar (Rajput) communities, with names like Jadeja and Solanki.”

In recent years, though, the Gujaratis have been found physically unfit for the army. From 2014, the state government initiated a campaign, “Know your Army”, to boost the recruitment, which led to a spurt. However, the numbers declined rapidly. A January 2018 report said that even those Gujaratis who were enthusiastic to join the army could not complete the 1.6-kilometre run in the qualifying time of 5.45 minutes.

But Gujarat’s pathetic representation in the army is also said to be a function of its prosperity. As Wilkinson writes in Army and Nation, “The recruiting melas in Gujarat, which has a booming economy but no strong military tradition, do not yield as many recruits as those in poverty-stricken Chhattisgarh and Bihar or in the traditional recruiting areas in Punjab and Haryana.”

To test Wilkinson’s proposition, we calculated the number of men that each state sends to the army per Rs 1,000 crore of Gross State Domestic Product. The table (See Table II) gets dramatically reconfigured.

Himachal Pradesh and Uttarakhand retain the top two slots, but Jammu and Kashmir replaces Punjab for the third slot, from where the latter slips to number 5. Quite incredibly, Gujarat remains 28th in this table as well, confirming Wilkinson’s theory that richer states are less likely to see high military recruitment.

We, obviously, don’t have tools to measure a state’s passion for nationalism. But Gujarat’s nationalistic fervour, certainly, outstrips its representation in the army. They are more an audience of war than participants, making it convenient for Gujarat to vote for nationalism.

Table II: Junior Commissioned Officers Recruitment in proportion to GSDP
Sl. No.	State/UT	Recruitment (2015 to 2018)	GSDP (2016-17 (Constant Prices) (Base Year 2011-2012) In Crores))	Recruitment per Rs 1000 crore GSDP 2016-17 (Constant Prices) (2015 to 2018)
1	Himachal Pradesh	7622	102976.97	74.02
2	Uttarakhand	10134	161864.99	62.61
3	Jammu & Kashmir	6275	102205.88	61.4
4	Manipur	1006	16988.94	59.21
5	Tripura*	1370	27820.3	49.24
6	Arunachal Pradesh	627	14993.97	41.82
7	Punjab including Chandigarh	14657	379051.89	38.67
8	Mizoram	431	13789.1	31.26
9	Bihar	9523	324777.89	29.32
10	Haryana	11512	434607.93	26.49
11	Rajasthan	14340	599029.44	23.94
12	Uttar Pradesh	22712	974119.96	23.32
13	Nagaland	343	15511.25	22.11
14	Sikkim	303	15339.28	19.75
15	Madhya Pradesh	8046	469392.68	17.14
16	Assam	2956	200790.01	14.72
17	Meghalaya	302	22051.21	13.7
18	Jharkhand	2491	194474.6	12.81
19	West Bengal	8375	657882.95	12.73
20	Kerala	5287	481839.33	10.97
21	Chhattisgarh	2275	213648.98	10.65
22	Odisha	2912	323217.73	9.01
23	Maharashtra	13922	1826295.8	7.62
24	Tamil Nadu, A&N Islands, Puducherry	6383	1035286.15	6.17
25	Andhra Pradesh including Telangana	6408	1057586.28	6.06
26	Karnataka including Lakshadweep	4271	895080.26	4.77
27	Delhi	1770	514870.79	3.44
28	Gujarat including Dadra & Nagar Haveli, Daman & Diu	3199	984453.13	3.25
29	Goa	67	51846.64	1.29
The above date shows the recruitment of JCOs/Other Ranks State-wise data relating to recruitment of officers is not maintained. *Tripura's GSDP values of 2015-2016 are taken The population of Dadra & Nagar Haveli and Daman & Diu is 5.86 lakhs

Not baiting or being racist or anything but serious question though why the number for requirements so low. I see most who join are from Rajput community, even in this thread if one see most of the Gujarati warriors come from this community. but for others what's going on , is prosperity the Only cause .I also read 60% of youth use tobacco which fcks up everything.