WAR 1971

[Blackwater]

Border 2 No Sunny paaji ?

last i saw on TV , yes sunny phaaji is there in border 2

 

[W.G.Ewald]

JP Dutta to make Border 2, Border 3 and Border 4 - Hindustan Times

 

[W.G.Ewald]

 

[The Messiah]

Imo actors should not be the same.

 

[arnabmit]

@Ray Sir, please act as an army consultant and make sure they show the correct weapons and correct military S.O.P.s

Tired of seeing wrong representation in so many films...

 

[Ray]

@Ray Sir, please act as an army consultant and make sure they show the correct weapons and correct military S.O.P.s

Tired of seeing wrong representation in so many films...

Well, one has to be asked.

Actually, there are officers of 3 GRENADIERS who fought the war and would be ideally suited to check the facts and advice.

If Hindi films show realism without the mirch masala and a girl thrown in here or there, a grieving woman relative, preferably a mother, it will be a financial failure.

 

[A chauhan]

Sunny has grown old, if he is in the film he should do of a senior officer.

 

[mikhail]

Well, one has to be asked.

Actually, there are officers of 3 GRENADIERS who fought the war and would be ideally suited to check the facts and advice.

If Hindi films show realism without the mirch masala and a girl thrown in here or there, a grieving woman relative, preferably a mother, it will be a financial failure.

but sir i am literally tired of watching these silly bollywood movies where they use toy AKM models which don't even spell out catridge shells and the heroes keep firing them like they have got unlimited bullets in their magazines!you know one thing sir,even in the Bollywood movie-L.O.C. Kargil(which is by far the most real life war movie in bollywood),they have wrongly shown the automatic versions of the S.L.R. assault rifle in the hads of the Indian soldiers when the reality is that only the crews of BMP and BMP-2 use the automatic version of S.L.R.!if the directors of these bollywood action movies sought the help of retd. army officers like you then they can make action scenes in their movies more real using authentic weapons unlike the toy weapons that they use right now!

 

[Decklander]

the way these movies are made, no one will join forces after watching them.

If the hero is an army officer, he comes home in a casket.
If the hero is in Airforce, his plane always crashes killing him and they reserve the best for Navy, they simply drown the hero with even body becoming untraceable.
Now imagine what will they do to Naval Fighter Pilot or Marine Commando. Crash karakay duboingay ya duboy kar crash karengay. similarly MARCOs ko maar kay duboyengay yaa duboy kar marengay.

 

[cobra commando]

Need couple of good hardcore movies based on IA CT ops with SF's and all, (Kab se wait kar raha hoon! Koi toh banao) minus the pathetic looking "nakli gear/guns" & masala stuff ofcourse !

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I hope they get very accurate details, Such as G3 AR for PA and M48 pattons.. ( Both are placed all over India )

Also, Hope they show Over confident PA commanders with there stuff..

 

[mikhail]

Need couple of good hardcore movies based on IA CT ops with SF's and all, (Kab se wait kar raha hoon! Koi toh banao) minus the pathetic looking "nakli gear/guns" & masala stuff ofcourse !

same here mate.i am actually quite fed up watching all those bolly movies where they always use the fake gears and toy guns,but the last movie that i watched(D-Day),the director Nikhil Advani showed some real guns and gears and the action was also pretty hardcore.i wish Nikhil takes the initiative and direct a movie on the basis of the television show "Mission Fateh" which was quite a great serial and its stories were based on the C.I. operations of the R.R. in the Kashmir valley.

 

[Ray]

Have you seen the film on NDA, where I think Ambitabh Bacnhan was the hero!

It was such a comedy for those who have really gone through the NDA.

What can you do?

The TV serial I saw long back with Nana Patekar and Sharukh was closer to reality.

Even that was a bit over the top, especially the non Army part of it.

For realism you can't beat Hollywood

The 49-year-old actor is mastering the mechanisms of the military machine for his role as an American soldier in World War Two drama 'Fury'.
http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=170943&fm=newsmain,nrhl

 

[mikhail]

Have you seen the film on NDA, where I think Ambitabh Bacnhan was the hero!

It was such a comedy for those who have really gone through the NDA.

What can you do?

The TV serial I saw long back with Nana Patekar and Sharukh was closer to reality.

Even that was a bit over the top, especially the non Army part of it.

For realism you can't beat Hollywood

The 49-year-old actor is mastering the mechanisms of the military machine for his role as an American soldier in World War Two drama 'Fury'.
Brad Pitt is learning to drive a tank. - 28-Jul-2013 - NZ Entertainment news

sir have you seen the movie "Prahaar" starring Nana Patekar?if you have then what's your opinion on the training given to the Ghatak commandoes which was shown in details in this movie?(btw sir you would be surpised to know that our ex-COAS General(retd.)V.K.Singh also also shown in this movie as a senior instructor of the comando school)

 

[Ray]

I don't see films as such.

I have not seen it.

 

[Decklander]

I don't see films as such.

I have not seen it.

Sir, I suggest you watch Prahaar movie. I can only make a suggestion to a senior. Pretty close and well written in the first part.

 

[arnabmit]

Sweeping mines, salvaging looted gold after the 1971 Indo-pak War | idrw.org

On December 10, 1971 at the peak of the India-Pakistan war, Russian intelligence tracked several British warships, led by the aircraft carrier Eagle, moving towards India's west coast. The advance of the British fleet was aimed at applying pressure on India and lifting Pakistani morale.

In response, Moscow despatched the 10th Operative Battle Group of its Pacific Fleet under the command of Admiral Vladimir Kruglyakov. Seeing the Russian ships the British retreated but the threat to India did not go away as the United States sent its mighty Seventh Fleet to show its support to Pakistan.

To bolster its flotilla in the Bay of Bengal, the Pacific Fleet in Vladivostok sent cruisers, destroyers and nuclear submarines, which encircled the US Seventh Fleet. The Americans backed off and India was able to finish the job of liberating Bangladesh and end the genocide of Bengalis by the Pakistan Army.

Sweep story

However, the job of the Indian and Russian fleets did not end after the war. There were two reasons. One, a few hours before Pakistan surrendered, the Pakistan Navy had dumped into the sea a huge quantity of looted gold and silver jewellery and six large trunks of gold taken from the National Bank. Bangladesh, the new country which emerged out of the ruins of the war, now wanted to recover this treasure.

Secondly, the Indian Navy's midnight missile strikes on Karachi harbour had impacted the morale of Pakistani forces in the east as well. The presence of the aircraft carrier INS Vikrant had forced the Pakistan Navy ships to stay in harbour. Unable to break out into the open sea and meet up with the US Seventh Fleet, the Pakistanis had mined the harbour entrance.

Dangerous task

So without a break after the war, the Indian Navy went into minesweeping mode. There was a reason for the urgency. In his book, Transition to Triumph: History of the Indian Navy, 1965-1975, Vice-Admiral G.M. Hiranandani writes that even as the minesweepers were on the job, one loose mine got caught in a fishing net. "An unsuspecting Bengali fisherman took it ashore, believing it to be some sort of treasure. As he tinkered with its horns, the mine exploded, killing 15 villagers and burning down their homes."

Indian crewmen at great risk to their lives performed a heroic role, clearing as many mines as they could with their limited experience and a handful of vessels. To minimise injury, all personnel were told to remain on the upper deck.

"The minesweeping operation off Chittagong was the Indian Navy's first real encounter with live mines," writes Hiranandani. "For nearly 12 months, these small, over-aged minesweepers operated 2500 miles from their home base in Bombay and 600 miles from the nearest naval base in Visakhapatnam, without proper logistic support, in extremely hazardous conditions, in a port ravaged by war. Both officers and men came through the arduous experience well and with confidence. The minesweepers, however, needed extensive repairs for several months before their operational capability could be restored."

The Hague Convention requires that if mines are cut loose or become adrift, they should be automatically rendered harmless. But the Pakistanis – true to form – had not played by the rules. For, the mines they had laid off Chittagong and in the delta did not comply with this requirement. In fact, the drifting mines behaved in a random and unpredictable manner.

The Indian Navy then tried some old fashioned interrogation of Pakistani naval officers. Based on the intelligence obtained from the interrogation, Indian Navy crews were able to make a fairly reasonable assessment of the location of the mines and the depth to which they were placed.

A large number of mines were defused or exploded. But the operations ended shortly after the navy's minesweeper Bulsar hit a mine and suffered extensive damage. Moreover, the navy did not have the capability to clear the entire minefield at Chittagong or clear the wrecks of ships and cranes (destroyed in Indian airstrikes).

There was also a political reason for the end of the sweeps. New Delhi was sensitive to Bangladeshi fears that the Indian military was an occupying force, and so it directed that all Indian armed forces were to be withdrawn by March 25, 1972.

Russians take over

Bangladesh requested that Indian minesweepers continue their work but at the same time it sought the Russian Navy's assistance to clear the wrecks in the rivers of Bangladesh and off Chittagong.

In April 1972 a flotilla of Russian ships – minesweepers, salvage ships and supporting vessels – arrived in Chittagong. In May, Indian and Russian officers met to discuss the coordination of the Indian and Russian naval minesweeping efforts. However, joint Indian-Russian operations revealed that India's British-origin minesweeping equipment and Russian systems were not compatible.

Two months later Russia and Bangladesh signed a bilateral protocol for salvage and minesweeping, which aimed at clearing all mines off Chittagong by the end of the year.

"It was agreed that in view of the need for Indian minesweepers to undertake long overdue maintenance and repairs"¦.the responsibility for check minesweeping would be taken over by Russian minesweepers," writes Hiranandani.

India therefore withdrew its remaining minesweeper in November 1972. This brought to a close the Indian Navy's minesweeping assistance to Bangladesh. The Russian Navy also withdrew most of its vessels, leaving only two ships to carry out sweeps till December 1973.

Hauling up gold

With most of the mines out of the way, Bangladesh requested the Indians and Russians to salvage the treasure lying at the bottom of the sea. Diving operations commenced in October 1972. However, the tides had probably dispersed much of the dumped treasure. Plus, visibility in the waters was not good. Under the circumstances, the total recovery of 52.75 tolas of gold, 70.05 kg of silver and coins worth almost Rs 2.2 million, wasn't bad at all.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Will such a face-off of Russian vs. American warships occur in the Mediterranean?

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Chapter-14

REOPENING THE PORT OF CHITTAGONG

Immediately after the surrender on 16 December 1971, the Flag Officer Commanding Eastern Fleet took charge of the activities to reactivate the port of Chittagong. By 3 January 1972, a swept channel had been established skirting the minefield and basic port facilities had been restored. The enormous effort involved in this achievement can be glimpsed from the sequence of events.

Establishing a Swept Channel

(a) Interrogation of the prisoners of war revealed that the Pakistan Navy, using coastal craft, had laid about 94 moored contact type mines in an area of 450 square miles (30 miles long by 15 miles wide). During laying, one mine had exploded and sunk the coaster involved in laying it. The perimeter of the minefield having been broadly established, a channel was marked by 23 December through which ships up to a draft of 14 feet could skirt the minefield and enter Chittagong port at high water.

(b) On 23 and 24 December, Alize aircraft from the aircraft carrier VIKRANT bombed the minefield to explode as many mines as possible.

(c) Since minesweepers were not likely to be available immediately, intensive efforts commenced to locate trawlers and coasters and their crews (who had fled to their villages) so as to press them into service for improvised minesweeping. By 27 December, four trawlers had been selected and smaller boats had been earmarked to mark the swept channel till suitable marker buoys could be found. From 28 December onwards, trawlers and coasters started wire sweeping for mines.

(d) By 2 January, a deeper safe channel, marked by channel buoys, had been established for ships up to 21 feet draft.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Ibid.

Minesweeping the Entrance to the Pussur River

The Indian Navy's minesweepers CANNANORE and BULSAR sailed from Visakhapatnam on 16 January 1972 and arrived at the entrance to the Pussur River on 18 January. Minesweeping commenced the same night and completed by the evening of 21 January. The minesweepers then sailed for Chittagong to commence minesweeping there.

Lt (later Rear Admiral) A Tewari was the Commanding Officer of BULSAR. He recalls:

"Immediately after the surrender, Indian Naval minesweepers were ordered to proceed to Bangladesh to clear mines. The ships involved in this operation were CANNANORE, a coastal minesweeper, and BULSAR, an inshore minesweeper. They were later joined by another inshore minesweeper, BHATKAL.

"We had been on our toes since August 1971 and the wear and tear was showing on men and machinery - both needed rest. But with the latest orders, that had to wait as a lot of preparations had to be done to get ready for operational minesweeping. The Navy's 18th Minesweeping Squadron comprised four coastal and four inshore minesweepers. The two best ships finally selected were BULSAR and CANNANORE. The Senior Officer of the 18th Minesweeping Squadron, M 18, was embarked in CANNANORE.

"CANNANORE and BULSAR anchored off the Pussur River entrance at 0400 on 18 January 1972.

"M 18 was of the view that it was too risky for CANNANORE to sweep and therefore BULSAR had to carry out the actual minesweeping by itself. The best M 18 was prepared to do was to standby to render assistance from his anchorage position nearly four miles away.

"So off we went with our biggest ensign and commissioning pennant to commence sweeping at 0500 hrs, just one hour after arrival at the Pussur river.

"When the ship made its first pass over the minefield, we were expecting the mines to explode at any moment - nobody really believed that the degaussing done at Cochin was effective. Either it was that or the mines were no longer active. At that moment neither mattered as we were already committed. The ship crossed the "Danger" line with our hearts beating in resonance with the propellers. We were still afloat and moving! The mine-hit wrecks were now behind us on the port quarter as a reminder of what lay below. With this baptism, the ship's company soon got down to the business of serious minesweeping. We completed seven runs that day and on completion secured alongside CANNANORE at 2200 to take water and then anchor for the night.

"Only those who have served in minesweepers can really understand the difficulties of minesweeping and how tedious, hard and demanding it can be. Handling the heavy sweep gear, cables, floats and wires requires seamanship and professional competence of the highest order. With the limited complement, all hands have to contribute their mite - there is no exception to this rule. There are no watches, no special duty men and no time for rest. An engineering mechanic comes out of the engine room, joins hands with the seamen in pulling the wires and cables as the sweeps are streamed and recovered and then goes back to the engine room freshened. There are no breaks for meals and the work goes on uninterrupted and takes priority over everything else.

"This routine was maintained continuously for four days, starting from 0400 till 2400 hours each day and ended with almost every one exhausted and dog-tired after being on deck for 20 hours at a stretch, followed by less than 4 hours of sleep.

"Carrying out magnetic sweeping involved streaming a 250 to 300 meter long and heavy cable behind the ship alongwith associated floats, kites and depressors. Normally this sweep should be streamed in waters where depths are in excess of 10 fathoms (18 meters). The mines had however been laid in about 4 to 5 fathoms (9 meters) of water. This caused considerable problems because the cable was found to be dragging on the bottom of the sea especially during turns, which resulted in it getting cut. It, therefore, had to be repaired repeatedly in order to improve its insulation.

"As compared to an inshore minesweeper, a coastal minesweeper like CANNANORE was better suited for shallow water tasks because of her higher superstructure, which enabled lessor sag when towing the cable. There were therefore, no technical limitations in the participation of CANNANORE if she had so desired.

"The minesweeping task at Pussur river was unique because no Indian Naval ship had ever done operational sweeping of influence mines in the past."