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Good post tshering :clap:
AGREED! So how do we proceed ?Take one thing straight: USA will NEVER change its foreign policy. It has, it is and it will always remain only one thing; and that is to use and throw any nation that is of interest to its nation. Others do it as well but no so ruthlessly as USA does. Its foreign policy is only changing tactics. Objective hasn't changed one bit.
Benefit huh? Japanese were industrialized long before US became their best friend through good trade with US. Their industrialization was on the basis of European economy of that time. Japan's imperialist ambitions took roots only after seeing UK, France and other European powers scourging the whole world for resources. Japan modernized its military as long ago as the mid-19th century. The Samurai were opposed to it due to which they had the Satsuma Rebellion: the first civil war of modern times of Japan in which the Samurai were defeated and relented to modernization European-style.
In short, Japanese were always development oriented long before they joined US gang in COLD WAR. It is Japanese mentality to be the most advanced; US did jack except drop a couple of nukes on their heads. Don't link Japanese progress as a result to US grace.So your excuse of Japan is not worthy enough.
Here's something that modern Korea and Japan have in common today:
- Puppet states
- No independent foreign policy
- Cannot use war as an option without US nod
- Cannot develop indigenous technologies without US nod.
- Cannot make any shift in geopolitical scenario without notifying
- Cannot have the freedom to develop strategic level weapons without notifying or asking US to participate.
The reasons why they both are developed:
- No threat in their region. (Imperial Japan took on the world militarily and was still far more developed than USA of today 2 centuries ago)
- Uniform societies.
- Innate sense of culturally being organized since beginning.
- Strong in their ancient cultural concepts.
- Strong in innovation that is encouraged in their countries unlike our nation where it is encouraged only on paper.
Germany is the European example of Japan regarding the same. They are capable of making everything in-house whatever the US can make (in fact, better and more flawless than US-made stuff), but they still are bound by "friendship" that was imposed on them after WW2 whereby USA/UK/France threatened to nuke Germans if they ever developed weapon platforms of strategic significance. That "friendly advice" still stands to this day; something that the modern NATO alliance doesn't show its dark side to the world.
You want good examples of US alliance? Here:
- Shah's Iran
- Iraq
- Pakistan
- Libya
- Batista's Cuba
- Venezuela
These are more contemporary examples of what happens when one relies too much on US. I am not against their friendship but that should not go beyond that; should not become an alliance. Especially not now with this current colonial-residue of a so-called government that runs our country.
No nations are friends. People can be friends but nations can't. Especially not US. Not the way it has constant tiffs with Europeans, holding them at commercial & economic gunpoint for the last 6 decades.
Its simple. We proceed on our terms and exercise caution whenever or wherever required. Not blindly follow something. Our foreign policy should always be independent and should have the capability to deal with countries like US on one hand as well as countries like Iran on the other hand as long as it serves our interests. If the other side doesn't like our relationship with a particular nation, then it should be made clear to them that we deal with everyone on our terms, whether you like it or not.AGREED! So how do we proceed ?
We have always had our own foreign policy.Very well said, Tshering !! Clearly put things into perspective for some delusional members who always want India to become a American puppet state like South Korea, Japan and the UK.
Its simple. We proceed on our terms and exercise caution whenever or wherever required. Not blindly follow something. Our foreign policy should always be independent and should have the capability to deal with countries like US on one hand as well as countries like Iran on the other hand as long as it serves our interests. If the other side doesn't like our relationship with a particular nation, then it should be made clear to them that we deal with everyone on our terms, whether you like it or not.
Yup! the question now is, how long is this sudden interest going to last ?Have you heard this?
Nations don't have friends, they have interests.
OK, I must respond to this. An argument could be made that a foolproof way for a country to succeed and prosper is to declare war against the US and lose.Spiez if you see the history you will find one thing in common and that is were ever America has set its foot that place has turned into a failure state and many people are suffering due to this.
To answer tshering Post #40, the problem he sees could be addressed by Japan, KS, Germany etc taking on more of the burden of their own defense.Good post tshering :clap:
I was helping to populate the earth in 1971, but I did not appreciate the term "tilt towards Pakistan" until now.Everyone was well aware of this, and it has been discussed to death before. Well, maybe not exactly the fact that US Marines had orders to attack, but the fact that the US was supportive of Pakistan in general.
But really, this is 1971 we are talking about. Most people on this forum weren't even born back then. Things are different today, and an allying with the US isn't such a bad thing.
However, I maintain that we should not put all our eggs in one basket, and we should have excellent relations and trade with European nations, Korea, Japan and Russia as well.
Completely agree.Tshering,
What you have laid down is well known. But then it's what I have said holding the present and future hostage to the past. Things evolve. America is not what it was even 10 years ago. It needs an India. India needs a US.
The more we delve into the past, the more baggage will be brought to the table. Understanding today's realities and how to best use it to make gains for the future in terms of national interest is the key.
We missed a few buses last century. If we miss this bus, we will suffer for the next 50 years.
Helping to populate the Earth... does that mean you had unprotected sex in 1971??I was helping to populate the earth in 1971, but I did not appreciate the term "tilt towards Pakistan" until now.
Precisely, which the USA doesn't allow as it fears these countries could outgrow US militarily. Come on, you need to agree that Kissinger mindset is still prevalent in USA despite massive changes in its attitude post 9/11. You know that the Pentagon and White House would never want Germans, Japanese and Koreans to become too powerful. I am not being against US; but just telling some present facts since past is no longer relevant:To answer tshering Post #40, the problem he sees could be addressed by Japan, KS, Germany etc taking on more of the burden of their own defense.
There's more to Satsuma Rebellion than a fancy Hollywood movie, my friend.(By the way, he mentions the Satsuma Rebellion. I wonder how much of the movie The Last Samurai was based on it.)
You are running away my friend!Precisely, which the USA doesn't allow as it fears these countries could outgrow US militarily. Come on, you need to agree that Kissinger mindset is still prevalent in USA despite massive changes in its attitude post 9/11. You know that the Pentagon and White House would never want Germans, Japanese and Koreans to become too powerful. I am not being against US; but just telling some present facts since past is no longer relevant:
- Israel-palestine woes.
- Pakistan-us woes.
- South Korea-North Korea woes.
- Germany's mandate to "stand down".
- Japan's mandate to never look up.
While US is interested in solving these issues (at least that's what it says), then why is it not finishing these problems off even for those who are friendly to US among these??
-Let Israel get their nation.
-Let us finish off the world's terrorist factory and take our rightful territory back.
-Let South Korea take over North Korea.
-Let Germans and Japanese arm to defend themselves.
I am sure that once US allows these to happen, US will get even stronger friends from these countries. Then why? Because of one simple worry; what if these countries become independent a little too much? This paranoia is the cause of most worries. Even if US cannot help, at least give 100% backing to these countries morally. If Japan and Korea are allowed to militarize, US's economic and military burden by freeing up Japanese and Korean military from your yokes and deal with China and the Fat Kims respectively.
Come on, think about it.
There's more to Satsuma Rebellion than a fancy Hollywood movie, my friend.
You keep on saying this but how will India benefit from usa without them wanting to pull the strings from behind.Tshering,
What you have laid down is well known. But then it's what I have said holding the present and future hostage to the past. Things evolve. America is not what it was even 10 years ago. It needs an India. India needs a US.
The more we delve into the past, the more baggage will be brought to the table. Understanding today's realities and how to best use it to make gains for the future in terms of national interest is the key.
We missed a few buses last century. If we miss this bus, we will suffer for the next 50 years.
I am sure. My question was how much of the movie was based on history?There's more to Satsuma Rebellion than a fancy Hollywood movie, my friend.