"UK is a Christian country"-David Cameron

balai_c

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You have your misgivings about the British but I think they still gave us modern education, modern civil service and industrial revolution... It depends on the countries colonised how they should have taken advantage of these legacies. In the end it is still us who determines the course of our lives.
Industrial revolution in England was financed by blood money sucked out of colonies like India. At the height of the Industrial Revolution in England, industrialization of India was actively discouraged by creating high tax ceiling. British rule is memorable from financial destitution,and famines, The great famine of 1878 caused as many as 10 million deaths. It has been described by historian Will Durant as The Late Victorian Holocaust. The famine did not happen because there was lack of crops,it happened because people did not have money to buy food. Now why people did not have money? That would be because the draconian law of permanent settlement mandated the landlords to deliver a certain amount of money to the Government as taxes. The British were the first power in India who mandated the use of money to pay taxes, in all other previous times farmers could pay taxes using their crops. This pulverized the rural agrarian economy of India. You see, we could have all benefits of western technology even without colonialism. Japan did just fine without being colonized. And as for the British gift of "modern education"? When the Brits left after 190 years of rule, India's literacy rate was 11%. Yes 11% with a near static population of 300 million! Now let's fast forward to today- with a staggering population of 1.2 billion, India's literacy is 75%. How can we say the "British Legacy",came to any assistance?
 
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pmaitra

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pmaitra - The Brits did get booted out of India, their economic situation was their making, not ours. Crediting the US for India's independence is naive and stupid and outright disrespectful to the people who gave up their lives for the freedom you enjoy today.
TrackWhack, you have a very flawed and skewed idea of India's independence. The British were not booted out.

Firstly, the only organised force that ever fought against the British was the INA and was allied to the Axis Powers. The Axis Powers lost in WW2.

Secondly, if the British were indeed booted out, as you claim, how come they managed to partition the country and how come Mountbatten remained in official capacity? Was there any successful Indian War of Independence? If there was, please inform me.

Thirdly, Roosevelt did tell the Brits to give up their colonies. I am not crediting the US for India's independence, but that does not change the truth. Moreover, Portugal, which became a member of NATO in 1949, requested US intervention when India invaded Goa, but this request was politely declined. Give credit where it is due.

Finally, instead of dictating others how to be respectful, try to be respectful yourself. You aren't coming off as particularly polite. I don't know how old you are, but I hope as you mature, you will be able to post more rational comments.
 

Dovah

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Seeing how Indians and Pakistanis "love" eachothers, I see this as logical and good decision, one god (if he exists) knows what could happen without border.
Our "love" for Pakistan is moot point. It was the Britishers that divided the country and this fact stands. If there were no Pakistan, there won't be anyone for us to hate, if you are referring to the perceived Hindu-Muslim animosity, you'd be surprised to know that more Muslims reside in India than in Pakistan. What you are implying is circular logic:

We hated Pakistan(pre independence)-British saw that we hated Pakistan-Britishers Created Pakistan-We hate Pakistan(post independence.

The British atrocities outweigh even that of the Nazis in the sheer number of victims, considering each human is equal which I believe is a hard concept for a lot of us to grasp.
 
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asianobserve

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The British were the first power in India who mandated the use of money to pay taxes, in all other previous times farmers could pay taxes using their crops. This pulverized the rural agrarian economy of India. You see, we could have all benefits of western technology even without colonialism. Japan

Interesting. Now that you are already independent from Britain, do you think it would be wise now for Indians to pay their government taxes in the form of crops...?
 

pmaitra

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The British atrocities outweigh even that of the Nazis in the sheer number of victims, considering each human is equal which I believe is a hard concept for a lot of us to grasp.
Very well said!
 

Dovah

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If the Brits left without a border the Pakis and Indians would have carved out one themselves, or perish trying...


Elaborate....
 

asianobserve

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The British atrocities outweigh even that of the Nazis in the sheer number of victims, considering each human is equal which I believe is a hard concept for a lot of us to grasp.

Another interesting assertion. How long did the British Empire existed again? And how about NAZI Germany?
 

trackwhack

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TrackWhack, you have a very flawed and skewed idea of India's independence. The British were not booted out.

Firstly, the only organised force that ever fought against the British was the INA and was allied to the Axis Powers. The Axis Powers lost in WW2.

Secondly, if the British were indeed booted out, as you claim, how come they managed to partition the country and how come Mountbatten remained in official capacity? Was there any successful Indian War of Independence? If there was, please inform me.

Thirdly, Roosevelt did tell the Brits to give up their colonies. I am not crediting the US for India's independence, but that does not change the truth. Moreover, Portugal, which became a member of NATO in 1949, requested US intervention when India invaded Goa, but this request was politely declined. Give credit where it is due.

Finally, instead of dictating others how to be respectful, try to be respectful yourself. You aren't coming off as particularly polite. I don't know how old you are, but I hope as you mature, you will be able to post more rational comments.
I definitely would not want to learn the history of India struggle for Independence from you. If you think that 30 million Brits could continue to hold us hostage, you're delusional. Sure we did not use guns and our methods were different. But yeah Roosevelt granted India her freedom, right.
 

asianobserve

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Elaborate....[/FONT][/COLOR]
Elaborate? Do you love the Pakis? Do you think you would be hugging each other if you were divided by the Brits?... You'd be perpetually in a state of civil war. Of course I'm speculating as you were in fact divided, but what do you think would have happened if the Brits were kind enough not to divide your territories?
 

bhramos

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Please elaborate.

I know far too many Europeans as well as American of European origin. I din't think you can convince me otherwise. Nonetheless, please elaborate.
i think the people the people who you met were in 40-50's, i personally used to meet over 70's. they think that the people from other nations mainly Asia and Africa didnt no how to live a real good life as per their knowledge and their standards, they taught they are superior in standards of living and others were bad, they say taught the world how to live and now they [asians or africans] are returning back and destroying their countries standard and economic and culture too, and say they invented all the necessaries of the world, like phone, bulb, stream engine and so on........ as i am an employ and went to live there used to shake my head and say Really!!! like an Ox......
 

Damian

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Our "love" for Pakistan is moot point. It was the Britishers that divided the country and this fact stands. If there were no Pakistan, there won't be anyone for us to hate, if you are indicating towards the perceived Hindu-Muslim animosity, you'd be surprised to know that more Muslims reside in India than in Pakistan. What you are implying is circular logic:

We hated Pakistan(pre independence)-British saw that we hated Pakistan-Britishers Created Pakistan-We hate Pakistan(post independence.
Ahhh, interesting, so the only way to not hate someone (nation, country) is to eliminate him? Yep, this is veeerrrryyyy "civilized", yeah, bravo!

The British atrocities outweigh even that of the Nazis in the sheer number of victims, considering each human is equal which I believe is a hard concept for a lot of us to grasp.
Ahh, so by this sick logic, I should now hate Germans and desire them all to be dead, only because some time in history they have goverment of maniacs, that deluded whole nation gaining it's support? I need to even hate little babies that born recently and are Germans?

By this sick logic Indians should hate British only because one goverment in past made wrong things?

It is incredibly civilized, really, I'am just shocked. I can imagine hate for individuals, I hate terrorists for example, but hate for whole nation and desire to make their life hell is just... un human.

i think the people the people who you met were in 40-50's, i personally used to meet over 70's. they think that the people from other nations mainly Asia and Africa didnt no how to live a real good life as per their knowledge and their standards, they taught they are superior in standards of living and others were bad, they say taught the world how to live and now they [asians or africans] are returning back and destroying their countries standard and economic and culture too, and say they invented all the necessaries of the world, like phone, bulb, stream engine and so on........ as i am an employ and went to live there used to shake my head and say Really!!! like an Ox......
So, if some individuals belive so, we should judge also their ancestors, maybe they have different views, idelogys and so on.

I said it, it is easy to make easy judgements, or when asking expecting easy explanations, generalisations etc. But life and reality are much more complex.
 
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Dovah

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Elaborate? Do you love the Pakis? Do you think you would be hugging each other if you were divided by the Brits?... You'd be perpetually in a state of civil war. Of course I'm speculating as you were in fact divided, but what do you think would have happened if the Brits were kind enough not to divide your territories?
Pakistanis are a race? An ethnicity? They existed before the Britishers arrived? Would they exist if there was no Pakistan?
 

asianobserve

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i think the people the people who you met were in 40-50's, i personally used to meet over 70's. they think that the people from other nations mainly Asia and Africa didnt no how to live a real good life as per their knowledge and their standards, they taught they are superior in standards of living and others were bad, they say taught the world how to live and now they [asians or africans] are returning back and destroying their countries standard and economic and culture too, and say they invented all the necessaries of the world, like phone, bulb, stream engine and so on........ as i am an employ and went to live there used to shake my head and say Really!!! like an Ox......

So you'de be happy if the African tribes are still sending messages by smoke, pigeons or couriers? So you'd be happy if they're are still calling for the Gods and the spirits for cure? So you'd be happy if they're still planting crops by hand in small patches of soil?
 

pmaitra

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I definitely would not want to learn the history of India struggle for Independence from you. If you think that 30 million Brits could continue to hold us hostage, you're delusional. Sure we did not use guns and our methods were different.
You don't have to learn anything from me, but you sure need to learn instead of spouting wishful thinking, because you don't know how India got her independence. You wish the Brits were booted out. I do too. However, come to terms with the fact that the Brits were not booted out.

But yeah Roosevelt granted India her freedom, right.
I never said that. You made that up. Don't play that game with me. Learn to debate properly. The quality of my response to you will reflect the quality of yours.
 

trackwhack

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So you'de be happy if the African tribes are still sending messages by smoke, pigeons or couriers? So you'd be happy if they're are still calling for the Gods and the spirits for cure? So you'd be happy if they're still planting crops by hand in small patches of soil?
And why would any of these activities be judged as inferior? I'd be happy if every nation was still doing that. Oh well, but then you wouldn't have an iPhone, would you? Now there is happiness and progress.
 

asianobserve

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Pakistanis are a race? An ethnicity? They existed before the Britishers arrived? Would they exist if there was no Pakistan?

Just ignore the reference to Pakistan, I know how it started. You know the group of people I'm referring to by that...
 
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pmaitra

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i think the people the people who you met were in 40-50's, i personally used to meet over 70's. they think that the people from other nations mainly Asia and Africa didnt no how to live a real good life as per their knowledge and their standards, they taught they are superior in standards of living and others were bad, they say taught the world how to live and now they [asians or africans] are returning back and destroying their countries standard and economic and culture too, and say they invented all the necessaries of the world, like phone, bulb, stream engine and so on........ as i am an employ and went to live there used to shake my head and say Really!!! like an Ox......
Ok, so you are talking about people of the colonial generation, so yeah, what you said applies to that generation particularly, not the new generation.
 

trackwhack

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You don't have to learn anything from me, but you sure need to learn instead of spouting wishful thinking, because you don't know how India got her independence. You wish the Brits were booted out. I do too. However, come to terms with the fact that the Brits were not booted out.



I never said that. You made that up. Don't play that game with me. Learn to debate properly. The quality of my response to you will reflect the quality of yours.
I'm all ears, give me a history lesson on how America granted India independence sir.

The contempt in my response is my reaction to the outrageous points made in yours. And yes we are still debating, so peace. :)
 

pmaitra

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I'm all ears, give me a history lesson on how America granted India independence sir.
"Have you stopped beating your wife?" - how would you respond if someone asked you this?

The premise of your question is false. When did I say America granted India independence? Quote me or Quit trolling.

The contempt in my response is my reaction to the outrageous points made in yours. And yes we are still debating, so peace. :)
And your comments are so ridiculous that they are beneath contempt. If you have too much of an attitude, keep it with yourself. I have one of my own.
 

asianobserve

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And why would any of these activities be judged as inferior?

Maybe Damian is right, you're just a child. I hope you don't get an important government position until you grow up, you're mindset I regret to inform you is simply out of touch.
 

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