"UK is a Christian country"-David Cameron

Damian

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So you start the argument on post number 221 by showing apathy for those who still bear vengeance and compare us to Nazis and you end your argument on post 239 by justifying whatever the means are it takes to get to the top of the food chain?

So by your rationale what is the difference between Hitler, who tried to achieve the same and any other Empire of the past or present? At then end of the day you are the fascist pretending to be the realist.

And in your own words - I dont give a shit about British poverty or prosperity. When their country descends into anarchy I will throw a massive party and salute every Indian who goes there and plunders.
And You still do not see difference. I will not feel pain, or happines if someones live in poverty or prosperity, I do not care. But You are like Hitler, You care about that, because You will celebrate, Hitler was also celebrating after he conquered so many countries and killed so many people.

But Empire is not absolutely good or evil, what Empire becomes is effect of people actions. Good Emperor, King, Prime Minister or President will make Empire good place to live for every nation within borders of this Empire, but also, a bad ruler will be a reason of misery of many people. And this is universal not only for Empires, but all states.

It seems that You like to simplify, but belive me, world is not simple, and expecting simple answers or solutions is a bad idea.
 

trackwhack

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And You still do not see difference. I will not feel pain, or happines if someones live in poverty or prosperity, I do not care. But You are like Hitler, You care about that, because You will celebrate, Hitler was also celebrating after he conquered so many countries and killed so many people.

But Empire is not absolutely good or evil, what Empire becomes is effect of people actions. Good Emperor, King, Prime Minister or President will make Empire good place to live for every nation within borders of this Empire, but also, a bad ruler will be a reason of misery of many people. And this is universal not only for Empires, but all states.

It seems that You like to simplify, but belive me, world is not simple, and expecting simple answers or solutions is a bad idea.
meh ... whatever
 

The Messiah

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And in your own words - I dont give a shit about British poverty or prosperity. When their country descends into anarchy I will throw a massive party and salute every Indian who goes there and plunders.
Your speaking my language now :cool2:
 

Damian

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Yeah... white people are attacked here and accused for the worst things... but in the same time peace lovers wish others the worst things... who is barbaric here then?
 

The Messiah

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Yeah... white people are attacked here and accused for the worst things... but in the same time peace lovers wish others the worst things... who is barbaric here then?
lol its got nothing to do with skin colour.
 

asianobserve

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I'll keep on reminding our friend here that his wishes will remain as they are, wishes. UK is not going to descend into chaos or even India's level now. India may ascend to British level though.
 

civfanatic

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And only because Kaiser or Tzar ruled my country I should feel and spread hate to Russians or Germans... how old are You? 15?

And You pretend to be civilized... freeking hilarious!
Your argument was that Nazis and Soviets were merely ideological groups; I showed that they were not because they continued the nationalistic policies of their predecessors. For all intents and purposes the Nazis and Soviets were national groups representing the Germans and Russians, respectively.

Whether or not you want to hate Germans and Russians based on history is up to you. I have seen plenty of Poles getting into fiery arguments with Russians on various online fora; they are quite entertaining to watch actually.

Anyhow, I see nothing wrong with having a very low opinion of another group if it is merely passive. As a civilised person, I will never advocate the genocide of the British or imperialism of any sort, despite my strong dislike of Europeans. This is what differentiates civilised people from barbarians.


Every mind can be depraved, even one called himself civilized. Such ideas are universal, and can born in every mans mind.
It is true that every mind can be depraved, but civilised societies produce less depraved minds than barbarian societies. That is, barbarian societies are more far more likely to resort to acts of depravity because they are not as culturally refined as civilised societies.

You cannot deny that, throughout history, certain groups of people have been far more prone to violence than others.
 

civfanatic

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I'll keep on reminding our friend here that his wishes will remain as they are, wishes. UK is not going to descend into chaos or even India's level now. India may ascend to British level though.
How many people in 1910 predicted that Britain would lose almost all of its colonies within 50 years?
 

Damian

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Your argument was that Nazis and Soviets were merely ideological groups; I showed that they were not because they continued the nationalistic policies of their predecessors. For all intents and purposes the Nazis and Soviets were national groups representing the Germans and Russians, respectively.
Nazis and Soviets were ideological groups nothing more, and they not even continue nationalistic policies of their predecesors, Tsar's rule or Kaisers were civilised and even more fair than Nazis and Soviets that only goal was to exterminate other nations (nazis) or force others to follow one ideology (soviets). There is a big difference, go and learn history.

Whether or not you want to hate Germans and Russians based on history is up to you. I have seen plenty of Poles getting into fiery arguments with Russians on various online fora; they are quite entertaining to watch actually.
I do not see as good thing when my countrymen and Russians are arguing it that way, it makes more bad than good, also in bog politics.

Anyhow, I see nothing wrong with having a very low opinion of another group if it is merely passive. As a civilised person, I will never advocate the genocide of the British or imperialism of any sort, despite my strong dislike of Europeans. This is what differentiates civilised people from barbarians.
... and You call such approach civilised? Pfff.

It is true that every mind can be depraved, but civilised societies produce less depraved minds than barbarian societies. That is, barbarian societies are more far more likely to resort to acts of depravity because they are not as culturally refined as civilised societies.
Germans were one of the most civilized nations in world, still due to different factors it was easy for people like Hitler to gain power over them. Do not think that Indians or any other nation is less susceptible to be infualnced by such individual. You are actually proof to my point, Your whole argumentation is based on hate and wish for others to live in the bottom. And be honest with us, it is only because You are jealous that they were more succesfull than You, and when they finally have problems, it is just great time to show Your own frustration.

I'am 100% sure that when I would criticise Your nation, You would be one of the first ones to make incredible outrage about this...

You cannot deny that, throughout history, certain groups of people have been far more prone to violence than others.
I can, because all people are prone to be violent, only someone naive will belive in what You write above.
 

civfanatic

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Nazis and Soviets were ideological groups nothing more, and they not even continue nationalistic policies of their predecesors, Tsar's rule or Kaisers were civilised and even more fair than Nazis and Soviets that only goal was to exterminate other nations (nazis) or force others to follow one ideology (soviets). There is a big difference, go and learn history.
They didn't continue nationalistic policies? The whole reason why Hitler was so popular among Germans was because he was an ultranationalist who promised to undo the humiliation of the Great War. The German people were desperate and gullible and so they lapped up his propaganda; they too are to blame for the carnage of WWII. It was the same also in the Soviet Union; by the late 40s Stalin had abandoned the early korenizatsiya policies and made Russian nationalism the foundation of Soviet ideology. This was reflected in, among other things, the creation of a new national anthem (emphasizing Russian nationalism) to replace the old Internationale (emphasizing global internationalism).

There was nothing civilised about the Kaisers or the Czars. German colonialism in Southwest Africa was barbaric and so was the Russian conquest of Central Asia.


... and You call such approach civilised? Pfff.
Yes. Even if you disagree with other people's culture you have no right to enforce your own culture on them. This is a rule that civilised people should follow. Barbarians don't understand or care about the right of other peoples to self-determination so they happily engage in war and genocide.


Germans were one of the most civilized nations in world, still due to different factors it was easy for people like Hitler to gain power over them. Do not think that Indians or any other nation is less susceptible to be infualnced by such individual. You are actually proof to my point, Your whole argumentation is based on hate and wish for others to live in the bottom.And be honest with us, it is only because You are jealous that they were more succesfull than You, and when they finally have problems, it is just great time to show Your own frustration.
Jealous of what? Civilised people have no desire to imitate barbarians. To me, the success of a nation has nothing to do with how many countries have been conquered or how many people have been killed. Maybe Europeans measure the success of a nation that way, but civilised people do not.

No, our hatred of Europe has more to do with disgust. People from all over the so-called Third World, who have felt the touch of European "civilization" cannot help but feel disgusted. Anyone who spreads such misery and barbarism in the name of "civilization" can only invoke disgust.


I can, because all people are prone to be violent, only someone naive will belive in what You write above.
Can you show me an instance in history when Indians engaged in such barbarism as the Europeans did? We never invaded distant countries due to false beliefs of racial superiority. We never committed genocide against another ethnic group. India has always been a tolerant society, welcoming people from all over the world. This is the mark of civilisation. In fact, I have said before on this same thread, that India was too civilised for its own good. We were not prepared to deal with the barbarians when they finally showed up.

The fact is that when it comes to war, genocide, and exploitation, there is no one on this planet with more expertise than Europeans. Do not put Europeans on the same plane as others; not everyone in the world is a barbarian.
 

Damian

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I think that is pointless to discuss someone who have "idealised" view on his own self... and You know what, You are nationalist as well, thinking that You are better than others (non Indians)... well it is not even nationalism, it is chauvinism.

And I'am disgusted with such "civilized" people, I prefer "barbarians" that do not feed hate towards others and do not wish them all the bad things in their life.
 

asianobserve

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How many people in 1910 predicted that Britain would lose almost all of its colonies within 50 years?

Nice try civ, but empire and living standards are incompatible analogies. You're actually a blind nationalist. There are always 2 sides to a coin...
 
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trackwhack

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Nice try civ, but empire and living standards are incompatible analogies. You're actually a blind nationalist. There are always 2 sides to a coin...
I doubt you understand how economics works. Like I said earlier, UK's total debt is about 500% of its GDP. Since its growing at about 1% a year,theoretically to become completely debt free, every peeny earned by every individual in the UK for 5 years has to go into clearing that debt. Which means no food, water, clothing, electricity, fuel cars nothing and only 5 years of work. Thats what will make the UK debt free.

To maintain their current living standard they have to continue borrowing and borrowing forever. Which basically means they cannot maintain their current living standard. Which is why every year more and more UK companies are being sold of or stakes diluted until .... you figure out the rest.
 

Param

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It was the same also in the Soviet Union; by the late 40s Stalin had abandoned the early korenizatsiya policies and made Russian nationalism the foundation of Soviet ideology. This was reflected in, among other things, the creation of a new national anthem (emphasizing Russian nationalism) to replace the old Internationale (emphasizing global internationalism).
Hindi Nationalism




Yes. Even if you disagree with other people's culture you have no right to enforce your own culture on them. This is a rule that civilised people should follow. Barbarians don't understand or care about the right of other peoples to self-determination so they happily engage in war and genocide.
Self determination? One man's freedom fighter is another man's mutineer, terrorist, separatist etc.

The only difference is, European colonialists came from far off places and subdued civilisations that were too different from theirs.


No, our hatred of Europe has more to do with disgust. People from all over the so-called Third World, who have felt the touch of European "civilization" cannot help but feel disgusted. Anyone who spreads such misery and barbarism in the name of "civilization" can only invoke disgust.
Have you asked the opinion of the sections of society that were oppressed and discriminated for over 2000 years, whose social and political empowerment begun during the colonial period?







Can you show me an instance in history when Indians engaged in such barbarism as the Europeans did? We never invaded distant countries due to false beliefs of racial superiority. We never committed genocide against another ethnic group. India has always been a tolerant society, welcoming people from all over the world. This is the mark of civilisation. In fact, I have said before on this same thread, that India was too civilised for its own good. We were not prepared to deal with the barbarians when they finally showed up.

The fact is that when it comes to war, genocide, and exploitation, there is no one on this planet with more expertise than Europeans. Do not put Europeans on the same plane as others; not everyone in the world is a barbarian
.

I happen to be an Indian.
If I was not one, I would have given the best answer that I still can but don't want to.
 
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asianobserve

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I doubt you understand how economics works. Like I said earlier, UK's total debt is about 500% of its GDP. Since its growing at about 1% a year,theoretically to become completely debt free, every peeny earned by every individual in the UK for 5 years has to go into clearing that debt. Which means no food, water, clothing, electricity, fuel cars nothing and only 5 years of work. Thats what will make the UK debt free.

To maintain their current living standard they have to continue borrowing and borrowing forever. Which basically means they cannot maintain their current living standard. Which is why every year more and more UK companies are being sold of or stakes diluted until .... you figure out the rest.

The Argentinians defaulted a couple of years back and alas their national leaving standard is still better than Third World countries... And they're actually growing back in affluence.
 

LurkerBaba

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The Argentinians defaulted a couple of years back and alas their national leaving standard is still better than Third World countries... And they're actually growing back in affluence.
Argentina is sparsely populated and has plenty of natural resources, the same cannot be said about UK
 

asianobserve

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Argentina is sparsely populated and has plenty of natural resources, the same cannot be said about UK

It would be better if some of us can make a cursory review of successful countries, even just those in Asia. Take a look at Japan, does it have Argentina's natural resources? How about Singapore? South Korea? No doubt natural resources can help but that is not the most important asset of a country, it's always been their people(progressive, motivated, skilled, educated, creative, entrepreneurial). Between Brits and Argentinians, I'll bet my 2 cents anytime on the Brits, or any other wannabe.
 

Armand2REP

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The Argentinians defaulted a couple of years back and alas their national leaving standard is still better than Third World countries... And they're actually growing back in affluence.
The Argies defaulted a decade ago. The result has been bordering on hyperinflation. The real inflation rate is calculated at 25%. The currency trades twice as low against the dollar as it did before the crisis. They are doing better than 3rd world countries thanks to bumper harvests, high commodity prices, high levels of liquidity, a construction boom and high demand from Brasil. All of that is about to dry up and begin a new crisis for Argentina.
 

asianobserve

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The Argies defaulted a decade ago. The result has been bordering on hyperinflation. The real inflation rate is calculated at 25%. The currency trades twice as low against the dollar as it did before the crisis. They are doing better than 3rd world countries thanks to bumper harvests, high commodity prices, high levels of liquidity, a construction boom and high demand from Brasil. All of that is about to dry up and begin a new crisis for Argentina.

They're managing it well. In fact I think their early full payment of the IMF was a masterstroke.
 

civfanatic

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Nice try civ, but empire and living standards are incompatible analogies.
In the case of the British Empire imperial holdings and economic growth (therefore, living standards) were directly correlated. Anyhow my point was that the future is unpredictable, and that the future is not guaranteed for anyone. We have seen other societies suffer a dramatic decline in living standards in recent times; a notable example is Russia in the 90s. There is no reason why Britain cannot suffer a similar decline.

You're actually a blind nationalist. There are always 2 sides to a coin...
A blind nationalist would think that his own people/nation are superior to all others; I don't hold that view. I merely consider Europeans (Britishers in particular) to be the scum of the earth.
 

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