To fill urgent Indian Navy need, Centre eyes Canada’s used Sea King helicopters

lcafanboy

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
3,912
Likes
15,392
Country flag
To fill urgent Indian Navy need, Centre eyes Canada’s used Sea King helicopters
The Indian Navy needs over 100 multi-role helicopters to be positioned on board its most important warships.
By: Huma Siddiqui | Updated: April 5, 2017 3:00 AM


The Indian Navy needs over 100 multi-role helicopters to be positioned on board its most important warships.


To meet the urgent helicopter requirement of the Indian Navy, India is expected to discuss acquiring Sea King CH-124 helicopters during the coming visit of Canada’s defence minister Harjit Sajjan. Speaking to FE on condition of anonymity, sources said: “At this time Canada is in the process of decommissioning four of its Sea King CH-124 helicopters. These four have very little hours of flying logged in, and four that were decommissioned last December were recently upgraded.” The helicopters, though being decommissioned, are still in condition of being flown.

“The Indian Navy has Sea King helicopters that have reached the end of their lives and are constantly being upgraded. The Indian side is likely to talk about these machines as these could bridge the gap and to support the depleting Indian Navy fleet as the acquisition process for new helicopters is not making any headway,” they added. Several procurement processes under various categories of helicopters, naval utility, multi-role helicopter (MRH), naval multi-role helicopter (NMRH), are all stuck due to re tendering or blacklisting of AgustaWestland.

Price negotiations for 16 MRHs with Sikorsky S-70B multi-role helicopters were stuck initially due to difference in base pricing and later the company was taken over by Lockheed Martin, which has further complicated things. Officials said that this deal will also guide the process for procurement of the much larger deal 126 NMRHs. The tender for over 100 NUHs was reissued last year but the shadow of AgustaWestland threatens it. The depleting fleet of the Indian Navy search & rescue helicopters — AW Sea Kings and the Sikorsky UH-3H — are both lined up for the life extension. Every major warship is earmarked to carry at least two helicopters on board to be deployed in various roles. But the last multi-role helicopter to join the fleet was two decades ago.

However, replacements for these are yet come. The Indian Navy needs over 100 MRHs to be positioned on board its most important warships; however it has just about two dozen operational helicopters. These helicopters play a critical role of hunting submarines, taking on threats like enemy ships and sending early warnings about incoming aircraft and missiles to the fleet.

The current strength of the Indian Navy is 150 warships, including two aircraft carriers, and less than one-third of the required number of helicopters available, thus forcing the navy to “pick and choose” their deployment and tasking helicopters. A senior Indian Navy officer told FE, “Helicopters are crucial in supporting ships or responding to distress calls on the high seas. But currently the numbers are so less that several ships are sharing a helicopter. ”

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...yes-canadas-used-sea-king-helicopters/615283/

@IndianHawk @Willy2 @roma @Krusty @Defcon 1 @Ghanteshwar @raheel besharam @raja696 @Amr @AnkitPurohit @Akshay_Fenix @aditya10r @airtel @aditya10r @ancientIndian @Bahamut @Berkut @Bornubus @Bengal_Tiger @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @HariSud @hit&run @hardip @indiandefencefan @IndianHawk @JayPatel @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @Mikesingh @NavneetKundu @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @smestarz @SakalGhareluUstad @Srinivas_K @ShashankSharma @Superdefender @Screambowl @TacticalFrog
 

aditya g

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,944
Likes
4,547
Country flag
Who are these people getting ideas to import second hand system and then making costly upgrades, Its worst then importing brand new ..
My own view is quite opposite, Kunal. Purchasing second hand allows you maintain if not increase force levels without burning undergoing a complex procurement process as this is relatively a straightforward G2G deal.

Below is an example of H-3 (american equiv of Sea King) along with INS Jalashwa and they are quite visible despite being heavily used:

upload_2017-4-7_23-17-49.png


Pakis do it all the time and have managed to maintain impressive force levels in their Mirage fleet for example. Their whole Navy is practically second hand.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,123
Likes
40,897
For spares and not sorties, That make sense ..

My own view is quite opposite, Kunal. Purchasing second hand allows you maintain if not increase force levels without burning undergoing a complex procurement process as this is relatively a straightforward G2G deal.

Below is an example of H-3 (american equiv of Sea King) along with INS Jalashwa and they are quite visible despite being heavily used:

View attachment 14941

Pakis do it all the time and have managed to maintain impressive force levels in their Mirage fleet for example. Their whole Navy is practically second hand.
 

I am otm shank

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
285
Likes
190
This is a huge mistake..since I was a teenager we've had news how antiquated and even dangerous Canada's helicopter arm is. there's zero upside to do this.

whoever is making these proposal is either corrupt or incompetent or both
 

I am otm shank

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
285
Likes
190
My own view is quite opposite, Kunal. Purchasing second hand allows you maintain if not increase force levels without burning undergoing a complex procurement process as this is relatively a straightforward G2G deal.

Below is an example of H-3 (american equiv of Sea King) along with INS Jalashwa and they are quite visible despite being heavily used:

View attachment 14941

Pakis do it all the time and have managed to maintain impressive force levels in their Mirage fleet for example. Their whole Navy is practically second hand.
If these heliş had any life left in them it would be a good idea but the Canadian helicopter systems have no relevance and may even be dangerous to your pilots if you aquire them.
 

Flame Thrower

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
1,676
Likes
2,722
Guys, don't take me wrong, I have basic knowledge in the helos and even less in naval helos.

I got these questions and hope someone can answer them patiently.

1. Why deals had to happen in hurry and buy second hand products!!??

2. Why RFP has not been generated at the right time!!?? And why the requirement was not identified in the first place.

3. In the very own forum there was discussion on about IMRH proposal (2008 I guess), why navy did not pursue development.

4. How come the urgency to but the 100 old crafts came up, probably the right qn is what is the speciality of these 100 old crafts. Can they be fulfilled by any other existing modern craft or how do Dhruvs fare to the requirement.

5. What are the consequences, if we postpone the purchase for 3 - 5odd years and putting full steam into IMRH!!??.

6 Yes, I understand that IMRH has not identified tye engine yet. Can't we buy the engines off the shelf!!?? If we can buy 100 second hand helos and refurbish them, I am damn sure we could buy/develop (shakti or chopper version of Hal 25 kn HTFE or work with Saturn to use/convert Al 55-I)engine for IMRH(in 3 yrs of time).

Note: Like I said, there are general questions which came to some lazy IT professional who hardly knows anything about naval chopers.
 
Last edited:

Filtercoffee

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2016
Messages
615
Likes
208
Country flag
Bad idea when we have the Russians and Indian agencies going up the wall and out of their way for the likes, we do not need antiquated and unwanted equipment here.
 

TheHurtLocker

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
260
Likes
757
Country flag
1. Why deals had to happen in hurry and buy second hand products!!??
The hurry is because we have several dozen Warships that can embark Helicopters and dozens more in the yards across the country and a handful of old very old Seaking in service, (Kamovs are getting upgraded but the Russian ASW/AsuW suite may not be all that competent) but no new Helicopters are being procured for the Multi Role requirement. ( Navy's ALH is basically used for shore based SAR and the Chetaks are single engined )
The embarked heli is an essential tool in the dangerous Anti Submarine warfare game and is often the best bet against lurking threats.



2. Why RFP has not been generated at the right time!!?? And why the requirement was not identified in the first place.
I'm confident that the Navy identified the requirements well before(Read-Maritime Capability Perspective Plan) and MoD issued RFP to suitable vendors.



3. In the very own forum there was discussion on about IMRH proposal (2008 I guess), why navy did not pursue development.
Crawl--->Walk--->Run.
HAL is still vetting technologies for an ASW/ASuW ALH...to expect such a leap would be unrealistic.

4. probably the right qn is what is the speciality of these 100 old crafts. Can they be fulfilled by any other existing modern craft or how do Dhruvs fare to the requirement.
The ALH(In Navy's terms) is a smaller Helicopter with a MTOW of <6t and the Navy wants choppers with MTOW between 10-12t.
And the speciality is the Submarine hunting suite and Surfare warfare suite that we probably are lagging in.

5. What are the consequences, if we postpone the purchase for 3 - 5odd years and putting full steam into IMRH!!??.
The Navy would be forced to use the Seaking beyond it's life and many million dollar warships with hundreds of sailors would be without a critical tool.
And the IMRH has not even flown yet.

6 Yes, I understand that IMRH has not identified tye engine yet. Can't we buy the engines off the shelf!!??
I think that is the path of least resistance and I'm sure it's being looked at, with full attention.

If we can buy 100 second hand helos and refurbish them, I am damn sure we could buy/develop (shakti or chopper version of Hal 25 kn HTFE or work with Saturn to use/convert Al 55-I)engine for IMRH(in 3 yrs of time).
Not true.
The used choppers have massive utility for the Navy as they probably have trained Aircrew, Maintenance personnel, type specific spares that have been stocked painstakingly over years and not to mention the knowledge base of operations spanning decades in every aspect(each being extremely specialized) be it Surface Warfare, Anti-Sub Warfare, HADR, SAR/C-SAR etc.
Regarding the new engines, the engine needs to be designed, prototyped, tested and certified for overland operations and then also for Marine use, a whole host of debugging and not to mention the additional burden of R&Ding a suitable transmission with the same challenges.
And all of the above precedes the production and certification with the airframe.
 

Flame Thrower

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
1,676
Likes
2,722
@TheHurtLocker

Do you know why IMRH has been abandoned... it is due to lack of funding...

How come IN didn't walk hand in hand with HAL when they were testing ALH.

If MoD looked for appropriate vendors for 7 yrs did the found only 16 S 70 helos!?

How come IN suddenly felt its ships are missing a critical tool as the no helos in the past 7 yrs and suddenly inducting 100 old helos will solve the problem!?

Like I said what could be the role of these helos!? Do you really think that 70's and 80's sub detection equipment is going to help us hunt subs in IOR...

I'd suggest buy 30 ALH class, work on IMRH with full swing. 5 yrs, we'll have good chopper.

These 100 old old helos would cause more problem they would have solved ever.

Or simply buy 84 more S 70, but not anymore old sea kings.
 

Razor

STABLE GENIUS
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
7,703
Likes
9,090
Country flag
What exactly is this urgent need??
Urgent need to take bribes and give money to foreign companies??
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

Articles

Top