There are no friends during a conflict !

[sayareakd]

Why the private sector was allowed on first place ? it was to expand our military industries and get technologies which are needed for military and it has worked . These private companies will be answerable to the Government and the system will be more open .

Private companies means private profit. Therefore they need to be kept in leash/check.

 

[sayareakd]

Private companies means private profit. Therefore they need to be kept in leash/check.

Sometime back one private company was supplying night vision to naxalite.

That is one good example of private profit.

 

[Deccani]

Should i call you Genius ..

You seem to know you Gov well, But i am afraid not your County, 3 million IA solider cannot rely on imports nor the equipment design for some other country but tailor made for ourselves, Why we need Private R&D ? Do you understand the risks involves ? have you read or research on those country which rely on Pvt corp for there arms like Amerika ? , Our Gov is not like Amerika Gov , They cannot tame there own PSU leave alone PVT corps under ..

Do give a hard thinking abt things you are talking ..

We are here not talking about the imports of equipment for the military but talking about the role which the private companies can play in providing the equipment for the soldiers in which both the government enterprise and private companies will work to meet the demands on the Indian military and all this will expand the military industries complex and by coming years , India doesn't have to give millions to foreign countries in buying equipment and Indian money would be in India which would not only improve the living standards but let towards more indigenous technologies

 

[Kunal Biswas]

As previously said none of the things you talked abt recent procurement has nothing to do with Kargil, Are simply trolling by playing Dumb and Blind ?

After Kargil war only we started to acquire weapons directly from Americans and there was a change in the approach .

 

[Deccani]

Private companies means private profit. Therefore they need to be kept in leash/check.

Private companies here means money even for Indians instead of giving all the billions to ours traditional suppliers

 

[sayareakd]

Private companies here means money even for Indians instead of giving all the billions to ours traditional suppliers

Yeah true, even public sector will do the same. ISRO is good example of public private partnership.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Finally some sense in your post, Now please ' Sir ' do read other and mine previous post and do a little research next time before you come to conclusion abt Imports and scams involve with it and there impact on grunts who are really protecting you and me, Don't insult them next time, Your county, Your Flag and Your people are always comes first than anything on this Planet ..

And please, Please do read the Article posted on first page to understand ' Your ' Military better ..

Former chief of the army staff Gen Ved Prakash Malik, who led the Indian Army in the 1999 Kargil conflict, on Tuesday said the satellite pictures of Tololing area supplied to the army during the Kargil conflict by a "friendly country" were three-four years old while the moving pictures provided by another nation eventually faded as the battery of the satellite was "about to get over".

During a discussion on his latest book, India's Military Conflicts and Diplomacy: An Inside view of Decision Making, Malik said, "We had no satellite pictures of the battlefield area during the Kargil conflict. A friendly country provided us the pictures at Rs 35,000- Rs 36,000 per frame. We got the pictures of Tololing area but realised they were three-four year old. Another country agreed to provide us moving satellite pictures of the battlefield.. after few days, the pictures faded and we were told that the battery of the satellite was about to die. The three chiefs of the Armed Forces made all the noises and even met ISRO chief Kasturirangan apprsing him of the need for our own images. He promised that in three years we will have the satellite and he delivered."

During the 90-minute discussion, Malik emphasised on the need to record decision-making process to learn from mistakes while documenting military history of the nation. He criticised the policy-making process in the country and described it as "fractured and segmented".

Narrating the role of military as an extension of the political and diplomatic mandate, Malik said, "On June 3, 1999 air chief and I sought cabinet approval to go a few miles on the other side of Line of Control (LoC), but the request was put down." While that was the mandate during the conflict, he highlighted military lacks "peacetime aim".

"We are still following very antiquated system which is not allowing flawless decision-making process"¦our policies are fractured, segmented," he said.

Talking about lessons learnt from the Kargil conflict, Malik said, "There are no friends during a conflict as everybody wants to make money. We are importing 70 per cent defence equipment. How can we be a regional power? After so many years, we are yet to get our industry moving as there are mindset problems in our defence ministry"¦problem is import of technology. We require foreign collaboration. We are stuck at 26 per cent FDI. Our private sector has the money and capability."

Economist Vijay Kelkar also attended the event with Malik. Amongst others present were Air Marshal (retd) Bhushan Gokhale, S K Jain and Anant Sardeshmukh of MCCIA. The event was attended by senior retired officers of the Armed forces along with researchers and enthusiasts.

Source : 'Friendly nation' supplied outdated satellite images during Kargil conflict: ex-Army chief - Indian Express

====================================

So does others Generals include General VK Singh ..

The message is clear and loud :

1. Reform Army thinking and decision making system ..
2. Need to move towards National products ..

There are many voices talks abt Army against National defense industry, But lack insight that it is mostly the work of MOD and few bad fishes in Army ..

Thank you !!

We are here not talking about the imports of equipment for the military but talking about the role which the private companies can play in providing the equipment for the soldiers in which both the government enterprise and private companies will work to meet the demands on the Indian military and all this will expand the military industries complex and by coming years , India doesn't have to give millions to foreign countries in buying equipment and Indian money would be in India which would not only improve the living standards but let towards more indigenous technologies

 

[Deccani]

Sometime back one private company was supplying night vision to naxalite.

That is one good example of private profit.

You are talking here about that Delhi based company which has forged documents to acquired it from US .

 

[Deccani]

As previously said none of the things you talked abt recent procurement has nothing to do with Kargil, Are simply trolling by playing Dumb and Blind ?

it has to do with Kargil war . After the Kargil war relations between US and India started to warm up which no one can deny .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You are at defense forum and my view was from tactical prospective ..

Understand that ( Dont ask me ) It may help you ..

it has to do with Kargil war . After the Kargil war relations between US and India started to warm up which no one can deny .

 

[Deccani]

Finally some sense in your post, Now please ' Sir ' do read other and mine previous post and do a little research next time before you come to conclusion abt Imports and scams involve with it and there impact on grunts who are really protecting you and me, Don't insult them next time, Your county, Your Flag and Your people are always comes first than anything on this Planet ..

And please, Please do read the Article posted on first page to understand ' Your ' Military better ..

Thank you !!

I do know that its because of Indian army that Indians are able to sleep at nights and i will never disrespect Indian army because what is important for me is the Independence and freedom of Indian nation and that can be hold only by the Indian army .

Scams are linked to imports in which foreign companies are involved and these foreign countries always create internal hurdles and its always wrong to push all the blame on Indian bureaucrats, diplomats, military officers and politicians . some can be corrupt but always not the all . Weapons business is like oil business in which all the tactics are applied as its linked to billions .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I cannot rely on imported bullets, For me i need constant supply of bullets and it can only be done when ' Made and Design in India ' for we Indians ..

Never forget ..

Scams are linked to imports in which foreign companies are involved and these foreign countries always create internal hurdles and its always wrong to push all the blame on Indian bureaucrats, diplomats, military officers and politicians . some can be corrupt but always not the all . Weapons business is like oil business in which all the tactics are applied as its linked to billions .

 

[Kyubi]

We started to get weapons from all the countries to modernize the military . Kargil war has really made us to change the policy and it has been good for the nation.


In 2004, the British company BAE Systems won a deal to sell advanced jet trainers to the Indian Air Force. In 2007, India paid the United States $50 million for the amphibious USS Trenton, and in 2009, Boeing won a $2 billion order for eight P-8 maritime reconnaissance aircraft and Lockheed Martin won a $1 billion contract for six C-1301J transport aircraft.Dassault Rafale to fulfill its medium multirole combat aircraft and now it seems even the Japanese would sell to India like US-2 aircraft etc.

Kargil war did have an impact on defence acquisitions i do agree to it, several foreign players have expressed their interests in supplying us, but to what extent do we keep buying, now every major defence acquisition is calculated in billions of US dollars, we have seen how the rupee value keeps wavering, dont you think this phenomenon needs to be curtailed. We cannot simply deplete our forex reserves just because we have few hundred more than our immediate neighbour pakistan. the questionable deal is Dassault Rafael why cant we do away with this deal and use that money to radically improve our CSIR labs and DRDO labs in terms of quality man power and critical machinery , modernize our ship building yards to international standards.

the following pdf shows our forex reserves
[PDF]http://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/Wss/PDFs/02T_20122013WS.pdf[/PDF]

Until AMCA comes up with a TD, we can replenish our depleted squadrons with LCA Tejas mk1 and mk2 , as of now 6 squadrons have been approved why not increase it to say 8 or 10 we can have a credible deterrence. I Fail to understand Why is their a need to shell out 20 to 25 billion dollars for a fighter which wont be available to us until 2017 or 2018.

 

[Kyubi]

Scams are linked to imports in which foreign companies are involved and these foreign countries always create internal hurdles and its always wrong to push all the blame on Indian bureaucrats, diplomats, military officers and politicians . some can be corrupt but always not the all . Weapons business is like oil business in which all the tactics are applied as its linked to billions .

This is where i'd like to interject, ur observations on scams linked with imports can be accepted, but just so to inform you scams do occur when indian pvt cos come in to picture, we have seen it clearly in the case of 2G spectrum, none of the pvt cos were newbies most of them were established firms.

In light of this event, we can expect such situations in future when we will have a potent, robust military industrial complex , that's the reason why military R&D should be under the purview of govt, I'd say run a PSU akin to Pvt company But don't allow pvt cos to run a PSU. Privatisation is boon to some but a bane to many, we cannot have a situation where even electricity, water supply is pawned to pvt cos.

This is not the paranoid in me speaking, but a concerned citizen . We Indians have the tendency to follow anything western be it the music ( which i have done to ) clothes ( almost every one) etc Understandably even our economic policies and our banking sector( by extensively marketing the use of credit cards which by the way was problem during the US economy meltdown ) etc are slowly mimicking the west. Hence if our defence industry is pawned to the pvt cos then its the end game for us, we will get to see CEO's of major defence contractors holding positions in the govt which will decide our strategic issues regarding foreign policy etc.

 

[happy]

After Kargil war only we started to acquire weapons directly from Americans and there was a change in the approach .

I think it was only after 9/11 that US realised the time bomb it was sitting on and decided to change it's view. But, Kargil inherently has not played any major role to attract more defence imports.

Also, I too endorse the view that pvt sector should be limited to serial production and not r&d. It will become a major security embarrassment if our much touted technology falls into others hands and I do not think that we can enforce complete blackout and prevent proliferation.

 

[sydsnyper]

I second that. USA could absorb a Bradley disaster..... not everyone may....

Needless to remind people here, Private industry is no wonder weapon ..

Read and Learn well and clear abt Western defense Industry rise and there implication both positive and negative ..

My view is, Critical technology R&D must be done by GOV organization,production is better done at Private corp ..

This is a better way to deal with things ..

------------------
@sayareakd Sir, your views ..

 

[Ankit Purohit]

There is some self-interest behind every friendship. There is no friendship without self-interests. This is a bitter truth.

Chanakya

 

[Deccani]

This is where i'd like to interject, ur observations on scams linked with imports can be accepted, but just so to inform you scams do occur when indian pvt cos come in to picture, we have seen it clearly in the case of 2G spectrum, none of the pvt cos were newbies most of them were established firms.

Even i do know that scams will not stop even when Indian Private companies are involved but these companies can be held accountable and have to answer to the Government and even to the Nation not like those foreign companies which are protected by their Governments and always create embarrassment for our Governments in front of the nation .

In light of this event, we can expect such situations in future when we will have a potent, robust military industrial complex , that's the reason why military R&D should be under the purview of govt, I'd say run a PSU akin to Pvt company But don't allow pvt cos to run a PSU. Privatisation is boon to some but a bane to many, we cannot have a situation where even electricity, water supply is pawned to pvt cos.

One way or another way , Indians have to expand their military industrial complex and for this only the Government is letting private companies into the defense sector but even i do agree that should be limited . What you are saying is needed because in long term things would be under Government and Governments are accountable to the nation.

This is not the paranoid in me speaking, but a concerned citizen . We Indians have the tendency to follow anything western be it the music ( which i have done to ) clothes ( almost every one) etc Understandably even our economic policies and our banking sector( by extensively marketing the use of credit cards which by the way was problem during the US economy meltdown ) etc are slowly mimicking the west. Hence if our defence industry is pawned to the pvt cos then its the end game for us, we will get to see CEO's of major defence contractors holding positions in the govt which will decide our strategic issues regarding foreign policy etc.

This would be the worst thing if the major defense contractors holding positions in the government and these contractors will think about their benefits more than the sovereignty and development of the nation , everything would be too much commercial and things would be more bad for ordinary Indians .

 

[debasree]

its again shows indigination...the best way forward....we have world class pvt players if govt will..they can deliver the ques is do thay have as if we can produce it in home the billons dollars cut back money from foreign vendors..

 

[JBH22]

He cribs, we crib and in the end nothing changes.

Let's adopt the ostrich approach and pray that our adversaries are stupid to be like us