Tejas Mark 3

[kstriya]

If MK3 is considered it would be a light stealth varient with very limited armament capability. If you compare the size of any A2A missile with LCA's fuselage you will see that it has a very limited space for internal bays 1 or 2 missiles and it's over. Perhaps that's why they are considering AMCA, since it needs to design from scratch if you are making a stealth jet. I would rather think of an Aura type UCAV than Tejas MK3. Since 1 A2A missile doesn't guarantee a kill.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_AURA

As technology is advancing we will have smaller BVR and WVR missiles that can fit within the internal bays. MK2 will be bigger than current MK1 so more internal real estate for future variant. Internal bays will be needed for interception or SEAD operations else options for external stores always available.

 

[Mikesingh]

India's indigenously developed supersonic fighter aircraft to be developed into a stealth platform.

Source : Stealth version of India's Light Combat Aircraft [LCA] Tejas, Mk. 3 on the cards - AA Me, IN

Also,

"One of the comments of the test pilot from the Pentagon was that the F-16 flies better with LCA control laws".

....revealed the father of India's Light Combat Aircraft [L.C.A.] Tejas programme, Dr. Kota Harinarayana.

http://www.aame.in/2012/11/of-comments-of-test-pilot-from-pentagon.html

 

[HariPrasad-1]

There is no reason to think a Mk.3 won't be considered but that is for after the Mk.1A and Mk.2 are developed/produced. Let's not write anything off just yet a lot will change between now and then.

Saraswat had said that They will build a stealth version of Tejas (MK III)

 

[kstriya]

Saraswat had said that They will build a stealth version of Tejas (MK III)

The Chinese are testing J20 in TAR, we need to immediately start testing a stealthy version of LCA before AMCA project is realized.We can incorporate all technology realized for AMCA into LCA and make it available to counter J20 in numbers.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The Chinese are testing J20 in TAR, we need to immediately start testing a stealthy version of LCA before AMCA project is realized.We can incorporate all technology realized for AMCA into LCA and make it available to counter J20 in numbers.

Chinese have yet to develop a world class third generation fighter. They have no orders for any planes except from pak.


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[kstriya]

Chinese have yet to develop a world class third generation fighter. They have no orders for any planes except from pak.


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J20 is a product of espionage if it is 50% what F35 can do then we might be in trouble. We should arm ourselves for the worst. Anyways Tejas us our home bird we can mature it in variants to make it export attractive and almost all the air forces will be inducting stealth fighters in the next two decade. Also J20 has entered LSPR phase they will soon produce it in numbers. We need a aircraft to counter it.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You cannot have Tejas MK3 unless MK2 get into production, Indian defense Industry is not so vast and supported like Chinese do, You have a single team which makes everything, India lack infrastructure and manpower in its scientific community and this cannot be done in few years ..

Chinese have yet to develop a world class third generation fighter. They have no orders for any planes except from pak.

The Chinese are testing J20 in TAR, we need to immediately start testing a stealthy version of LCA before AMCA project is realized.We can incorporate all technology realized for AMCA into LCA and make it available to counter J20 in numbers.

J20 is a product of espionage if it is 50% what F35 can do then we might be in trouble. We should arm ourselves for the worst. Anyways Tejas us our home bird we can mature it in variants to make it export attractive and almost all the air forces will be inducting stealth fighters in the next two decade. Also J20 has entered LSPR phase they will soon produce it in numbers. We need a aircraft to counter it.

 

[smestarz]

The Chinese are doing well with J-17 as well as J-11 and J-10 planes,
The important aspect what Chinese aerospace industry has is total support from its govt, and armed forces which is seriously lacked by HAL. Maybe HAL is incompetent, but when the Chief of the armed forces are on record saying that they want only imported product for their force and dont want domestically produced products. Look at Arjun and Tejas for that matter. Has the ex-air Chief NAK Browne not been on record saying that Tejas can best be LIFT and nothing else, and IAF will not buy it?
when our armed forces chiefs give such statements in media and also go to the lengths giving falsified data to ensure that the plane they prefer is selected (READ PILATUS AND RAFALE) how can our domestic aerospace industry develop when we have such leaders at the helm? Did you forget the VVIP chopper scam and how systematically the conditions were put to ensure just one helicopter remained in the fray and then it was priced at few time over the actual price. Kya ACM Tyagi ne Tyaag kiya hai desh ke liye... I really wonder how his family name came to be Tyagi.. corrupt bugger..

We know for sure that corruption is at the peak in armed forces and such examples when come out in public domain, people have stopped looking at servicemen with pride that was before. They are more or less looked upon like policeman.. And this too thanks to the top brass officers. The Solider till the rank of Captain are very much fighting men who really7 are dedicated but are seriously let down by the corrupt antics of the desk riders.

So, if we dream of overtaking China, stop the imports and get whatever the product produced in India by Indian companies. I think its time to make another nuclear testing, and then develop our own technology because we are sanctioned. or better is to assume everyone has sanctioned us and depend on our domestic companies to deliver. Till th time we have foreign options open, our service chiefs will depend on imported maal.

Chinese have yet to develop a world class third generation fighter. They have no orders for any planes except from pak.


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[LETHALFORCE]

J20 is a product of espionage if it is 50% what F35 can do then we might be in trouble. We should arm ourselves for the worst. Anyways Tejas us our home bird we can mature it in variants to make it export attractive and almost all the air forces will be inducting stealth fighters in the next two decade. Also J20 has entered LSPR phase they will soon produce it in numbers. We need a aircraft to counter it.

IMO Chinese will not be able to reach 5 percent of f35 capability even with their vast
Espionage skills. Israelis sold LAVI technology to Chinese and they could not do much no improvements or upgrades or even production from it.


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[kstriya]

You cannot have Tejas MK3 unless MK2 get into production, Indian defense Industry is not so vast and supported like Chinese do, You have a single team which makes everything, India lack infrastructure and manpower in its scientific community and this cannot be done in few years ..

If we do not want another 1962 repeat, we better start some planning to have offensive capabilities. We can break the existing team add new talent and let each team take up a variant of LCA. I have high hopes on the current dispensation at the center and particularly the defense minister, pray MOD comes up with a dramatic solution.

 

[Hari Sud]

First get the LCA - 1 to the airforce specs. Then dream of LCA - 3.

 

[kstriya]

How will LCA tejas perform if it is upgraded with a thrust vectoring engine?

Venkatesh Kidambi

If Upgraded with TVC , LCA will become one of its kind light fighter. It will loose the need for tail fin . This will further enhance stealth characteristics of the small aircraft by removing the reflected radar signature of the fin . Making it the lightest and smallest of the super maneuverable aircraft . We can call it ALCA. A developmental step in our journey to AMCA with internal weapon bays.

This will become possible only with Indian made Kaveri engine (finished with French help - as offset for Rafeal deal - as per latest news ) mated with TVC nozzle from Indo-Russian joint venture project (currently underway) .

With 3D thrust vector nozzles the LCA will be as maneuverable as the SU 30 MKI , may be more and will be one one hell of a dog fighter. And superb for short range sneak attacks under the radar into Pakistan or Tibet. Armed with a single Brahmos under belly two external fuel tanks , 2 Derby / Meteor BVR Missiles and 2 Python missiles , This will be a deadly aircraft configuration which will strike deep on either side of the Border with Brahmos from stand off range and then neutralise the incoming fighters before returning to base.

This one of the possible MK2 / MK3 configuration. All this is Hypothetical at this stage .Only be made possible if we can get Kaveri & TVC nozzle two extremely critical and very challenging projects even with foriegn help as their will always be domestic dis-help. Wait and watch.

 

[smestarz]

why so muich reliance on being a dog fighter? I think the days of dogfighting are over and would just remain the tricks to show at air shows. What is more important is to take down enemies at t distance, Find and shoot first

How will LCA tejas perform if it is upgraded with a thrust vectoring engine?

Venkatesh Kidambi

If Upgraded with TVC , LCA will become one of its kind light fighter. It will loose the need for tail fin . This will further enhance stealth characteristics of the small aircraft by removing the reflected radar signature of the fin . Making it the lightest and smallest of the super maneuverable aircraft . We can call it ALCA. A developmental step in our journey to AMCA with internal weapon bays.

This will become possible only with Indian made Kaveri engine (finished with French help - as offset for Rafeal deal - as per latest news ) mated with TVC nozzle from Indo-Russian joint venture project (currently underway) .

With 3D thrust vector nozzles the LCA will be as maneuverable as the SU 30 MKI , may be more and will be one one hell of a dog fighter. And superb for short range sneak attacks under the radar into Pakistan or Tibet. Armed with a single Brahmos under belly two external fuel tanks , 2 Derby / Meteor BVR Missiles and 2 Python missiles , This will be a deadly aircraft configuration which will strike deep on either side of the Border with Brahmos from stand off range and then neutralise the incoming fighters before returning to base.

This one of the possible MK2 / MK3 configuration. All this is Hypothetical at this stage .Only be made possible if we can get Kaveri & TVC nozzle two extremely critical and very challenging projects even with foriegn help as their will always be domestic dis-help. Wait and watch.

 

[Chinmoy]

why so muich reliance on being a dog fighter? I think the days of dogfighting are over and would just remain the tricks to show at air shows. What is more important is to take down enemies at t distance, Find and shoot first

In contrast, days of Dogfighting is coming back IMO. Just imagine pitching T50 against F22, or any other 5th gen plane with another one. If they start performing as advertised by their makers, then you are sure to get engaged in close dogfight even before thinking of launching your AAM.
Why else do you think US, a pioneer in stealth and long range RADAR, would start programmes like TOPGUN and RedFlag?

 

[kstriya]

Does India Need To Worry About Chinese Stealth Fighter J-20?


News reports have appeared in the Indian media about the presence of the Chinese J-20 stealth fighter at Daocheng Yading in Tibet, the highest civilian airport in the world.

One article carries a photograph of a J-20 on a rain-swept tarmac, with the aircraft draped in a camouflage net - desert camouflage pattern!

Surprisingly, there are no chocks on wheels (to stop the aircraft from rolling) and the photograph shows a small hill in the background - no identifiable features of the airport are visible.

The photographs, as per the article, appeared in China on the social micro blogging site Weibo and on two websites just "days before PM Narendra Modi travels to China for G-20" and "days after China warned India against deploying BrahMos missile along the Himalayas".

A news brief was also carried as a lead item by its national television arm and the two conveyed an alarmist view of an event that otherwise is a normal milestone in the development cycle of a new aeroplane.

Unfortunately, this view has been generated by many other media articles too, one of which stated that China has moved stealth fighter into Tibet! It is time a professional assessment of the "sighting" of the J-20 in Tibet is undertaken.

That the J-20 program has entered the low rate of initial production has been widely reported in the press, both Chinese and Western.

After the first prototype flew on January 11, 2011, seven more prototypes have been built for various phases of testing. The test flying has proceeded at a very fast pace such that the first squadron would reportedly get established in 2017 with aircraft having initial operational clearance.

Many photographs of the aircraft have also appeared, but surprisingly there have been no images of two J-20s flying together or any armament being fired (only images of open weapons bay are available).

The deductions with this type of background information are:

1. The prototype testing of the J-20 is still work in progress.

2. Even though the first squadron may get raised by 2017, the operational capability would not be that of a fully operational squadron as some clearances would come only after all aspects of the flight envelope are explored.

3. The squadron would, in parallel, work up the standard operating procedures and train pilots in basic handling and procedures of the J-20.

4. The aircraft is powered by Russian engines which do not give it super cruise capability (speed more than the speed of sound with no afterburner).

Thus, the J-20 is not a true fifth generation fighter at present. The super cruise capability may come once the indigenous WS-15 engine gets cleared - this is still some distance away as the Chinese are facing problems of reliability in indigenous power plants.

5. It is a well-known fact that the paint work and skin finish play an important role in making an aircraft stealthy; hence, the very casual way in which the camouflage net has been draped on the aircraft in the photo, with loose flapping strings, shows that stealth is not being given its due, despite the hype that surrounds it.

So, is the aircraft really stealthy, for if it was then the net would not have been draped the way it is.

6. That the aircraft landed and took off from an airfield at 14,000ft is indeed creditable (considering that the photo is genuine).

But, this is just half the story. What would be operationally relevant is the information about the payload it carried and the ambient temperatures it operated in.

So, what was the J-20 doing in the high altitude airfield?

The answer is, just what the Indian Tejas was doing at the high altitude airfield at Leh some months back - these aircraft have operated from high altitude airfields as part of their hot and high prototype testing, which are mandatory as part of clearance of their flight envelope.

What the photo does confirm is that the capability to operate from Tibet may be part of the task for the J-20. Many more visits to Tibet would be required to test out the aircraft in cold weather conditions, especially an engine start after an overnight "cold soak" in the open.

This test is indeed critical, besides many more to check out its systems, especially the avionics and radar, in the extreme cold conditions that prevail in Tibet.

The appearance, thus, of the J-20 in Tibet being linked to either the visit of PM Modi to China or the decision to place BrahMos missiles on India's borders is incorrect.

It is not "signalling" being done for geopolitical reasons but just part of flight testing that any aviation system goes through.

However, the message that does come through to India is that in some years to come, the Indian Air Force must prepare for the presence of a fifth generation fighter that can operate from high altitude air fields in Tibet.

It can only get interesting from here - the last word on stealth in Tibet has not been said yet.