T-14 Armata

[Blood+]

what counter points ?

You'd know if you had a functing brain and a pair eyes.

russkie claims about their produkt being ready for hell and back ? magical reports on this supposed production line ? If the armata was ready it'd see action already. But nooo they are just training for the past few years.

Again, they have got only a handful of these systems and as you'd probably have figured out on your own if you had actually had a half-functioning brain, you need numbers to be effective on the battlefield!! The Russians simply do not want a repeat of their BMPT Terminators saga where these vehicles, though sound in their concept, could not leave much of an impression on the battlefield due to their limited numbers!!

And besides, why do you think the Russians should feel compelled to use something like the Armata when the best the Ukies can field now is just a few hundred old Polish handout T-72M1s??!! Where is the need??!!

Also don't cry about personal attacks when you open with calling others "kid" when they don't agree with your fantasy wank.

I called you a kid because you were acting like one (you still are and you don't even realize that), not because you disagreed with my remarks.

 

[Blood+]

been hearing news of it entering production for some years now .

entire project sounds like another fail from the russians.

Of course, it will sound like a failure to you considering your allegiance and biases, big shocker there. In actuality, they just don't have the money (along with some teething troubles, and now aggravated by those sanctions) to produce them at the rate they would like to.

 

[Delta Squad]

What actual paradigm did it shift, mind telling us?? That hunk of junk comes with a protection level of a mere STANAG 4569 level II, which means it can't even resist .50 cal AP rounds on the frontal arc!! Shit's a fucking death trap!! So, yeah, if you meant a paradigm shifted in that direction, then you were definitely correct.

Stanag II?? Official document says STANAG III.... Where you got the data for STANAG II? Source pls....

 

[Blood+]

Stanag II?? Official document says STANAG III.... Where you got the data for STANAG II? Source pls....

Sorry, I meant Stanag III, which is rated for 7.62 NATO AP rounds. So my original point still stands despite my fuck up.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

You'd know if you had a functing brain and a pair eyes.

Again, they have got only a handful of these systems and as you'd probably have figured out on your own if you had actually had a half-functioning brain, you need numbers to be effective on the battlefield!! The Russians simply do not want a repeat of their BMPT Terminators saga where these vehicles, though sound in their concept, could not leave much of an impression on the battlefield due to their limited numbers!!

And besides, why do you think the Russians should feel compelled to use something like the Armata when the best the Ukies can field now is just a few hundred old Polish handout T-72M1s??!! Where is the need??!!

I called you a kid because you were acting like one (you still are and you don't even realize that), not because you disagreed with my remarks.

Very mature of yourself to throw a tantrum because somebody is dissing your fav toy. What's wrong with calling an unfinished product and unfinished product ? This is the SU-30 saga all over again. They will use our money to finish developing the product and we get what ? licensed production ? If Army wants to fill a void in it's tank arsenal, HVF will print more T-90s; but that's about it.
This is like a bratty teenage fantasy on display, "oooh wouldn't it be so sick if we get this tank and it'd be so cool".

 

[blackjack]

what counter points ? russkie claims about their produkt being ready for hell and back ? magical reports on this supposed production line ? If the armata was ready it'd see action already. But nooo they are just training for the past few years.
Also don't cry about personal attacks when you open with calling others "kid" when they don't agree with your fantasy wank.

There are like 132 T-14s with more entering production but they are not available for export. I personally think the reason alot of indian users are scared and paranoid about Russian products is that their military might be seduced into buying them like you cant beat the price tags being offered on the Sukhoi LTS which might piss off some users here not continuing their own domestic projects. looking back at my article in the knowledge repository they are adding 40+more T-14s by the end of 2023 to existing 132.

 

[blackjack]

been hearing news of it entering production for some years now .

entire project sounds like another fail from the russians.

Are you guys dissatisfied with the T-90s? production is still ongoing and for all we know it can increase depending on if Ukraine takes out enough Russian T-72s. They even showcased training their reserves on riding the T-14s if anyone remembers that.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

There are like 132 T-14s with more entering production

Could you kindly provide a source. Because it was 20 vehicles produced up until March 2022.

I personally think the reason alot of indian users are scared and paranoid about Russian products

The paranoia has well grounded reasons at this stage.

you cant beat the price tags being offered on the Sukhoi LTS which might piss off some users here not continuing their own domestic projects.

The SU-30 deal turned out great, the MKI is the best multirole heavy fighter we've had for the longest time. But how long are we going to keep doing this. If we keep paying Russia to finish development of their projects and provide us license production rights, we'd never have mature programs of our own. It's a vicious cycle.

Are you guys dissatisfied with the T-90s?

For it's pricetag, the OFV made T-90S performs as advertised no complaints here, although the armor is becoming outdated.

 

[Blood+]

Very mature of yourself to throw a tantrum because somebody is dissing your fav toy.

When did I throw a tantrum??!! I just made my opinion known, isn't that what we are supposed to do in a defense forum - share our thoughts and ideas??!! Or am I not allowed that privilage for some reason??

Oh and by the way, who's the one who replied with a cheeky oneliner, sure ain't me.

What's wrong with calling an unfinished product and unfinished product ?

Nothing. But it is wrong - both factually and intellectually, to call a finished product an unfinished one and that is precisely what you've been doing.

This is the SU-30 saga all over again. They will use our money to finish developing the product and we get what ? licensed production ?

So fucking what?? Why should the Army choose inhouse production over quality and compromise on its preparedness??

If Army wants to fill a void in it's tank arsenal, HVF will print more T-90s; but that's about it.

You do not know that, so don't pretend otherwise.

This is like a bratty teenage fantasy on display, "oooh wouldn't it be so sick if we get this tank and it'd be so cool".

If wishing for our men in uniform to get the best possible gear makes me a bratty teenager, then I'll remain that teenager for my entire life and flash it around as a badge of honor.

 

[Blood+]

Are you guys dissatisfied with the T-90s? production is still ongoing and for all we know it can increase depending on if Ukraine takes out enough Russian T-72s. They even showcased training their reserves on riding the T-14s if anyone remembers that.

The only dissatisfied are the ones who have never set foot within a hundred kilometers of a tank, DFI happens to be their natural habitat. Sure, given a choice, I would have picked the Abrams over the T-90S any day but we never had that choice and people seem to forget that.

 

[blackjack]

Could you kindly provide a source. Because it was 20 vehicles produced up until March 2022.

Russian Tank Maker to Begin Deliveries of Armata Platforms in 2020 – The Diplomat for 132 tanks to 2022,

The Russian military after 2023 will receive more than 40 Armata tanks - the board of the military-industrial complex - (militarynews.ru) 40 delivered in 2023

 

[Blood+]

For it's pricetag, the OFV made T-90S performs as advertised no complaints here, although the armor is becoming outdated.

That's about the only thing in the current T-90S fleet that can be decidedly described as not outdated, by world standards that is.

 

[Blademaster]

The Armata tanks would not be used in the Ukraine conflict. They would be stationed against the real NATO army, the Polish Army.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Oh and by the way, who's the one who replied with a cheeky oneliner, sure ain't me.

Nothing. But it is wrong - both factually and intellectually, to call a finished product an unfinished one and that is precisely what you've been doing.

To call an unfinished product a finished one is factually and intellectually wrong on your behalf.

You do not know that, so don't pretend otherwise.

You do not know that, so don't pretend otherwise.

 

[blackjack]

I would have picked the Abrams over the T-90S any day but we never had that choice and people seem to forget that.

dont want to debate with you about Abrams since they cost like 9 million dollars, i think india has a more muddy habitat (could be wrong dont know indias environment) considering the western equipment that sinks in Ukraine. and Yeminis have their fair share of destroying saudi m1a2s even with outdated RPGs like konkurs. Saudi M1 Abrams Tank Cook Off After Yemeni army ATGM Hit Yemen war 2015 - YouTube

unless you might change your mind if the T-90s being offered to india had relikt armour?

 

[Blood+]

View attachment 184559

That is not a one-liner and even if it was, it was in reply to YOUR one-liner!! So my point still holds.

To call an unfinished product a finished one is factually and intellectually wrong on your behalf.

Unfinished according to whom exactly?? And even if it were unfinished (which it ain't), it's still miles ahead of anything that the DRDO can even hope to produce in the next couple of decades!! Motherfuckers can't even come up with a gun that could match the Rheinmetall L/44, a design from the mid-80s, which was considered outdated by the mid-90s by their own manufacturers!!

You do not know that, so don't pretend otherwise.

No, I do NOT know that and I ain't the one pretending here.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

dont want to debate with you about Abrams since they cost like 9 million dollars, i think india has a more muddy habitat (could be wrong dont know indias environment) considering the western equipment that sinks in Ukraine. and Yeminis have their fair share of destroying saudi m1a2s even with outdated RPGs like konkurs. Saudi M1 Abrams Tank Cook Off After Yemeni army ATGM Hit Yemen war 2015 - YouTube

unless you might change your mind if the T-90s being offered to india had relikt armour?

Weight has always been a sore spot for the Army, the Arjun program was a response to the supposed pakistani acquisition of Abrams. Since that is no longer a possibility Army wants it's tank fleet to realistically stay around the 50 tonnes weight mark. For that purpose the T-90 is well suited and even the NGMBT in development promises to stay around that weight class.

 

[Blood+]

There are some factual errors in your comment.

dont want to debate with you about Abrams since they cost like 9 million dollars,

yeah but presumably, you wouldn't need as many Abrams as T-90S, so it will balance out somewhat.

i think india has a more muddy habitat

Only around the Kutch and some parts of the Punjab border during a certain period of the year. So what?? Even a landrover or a pickup would sink in such grounds.
There are some factual errors in your comment. considering the western equipment that sinks in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]
Wrong, a T-72 is just as susceptible to mud and slush as is any NATO MBT.

and Yeminis have their fair share of destroying saudi m1a2s even with outdated RPGs like konkurs. Saudi M1 Abrams Tank Cook Off After Yemeni army ATGM Hit Yemen war 2015 - YouTube

[/QUOTE]

Iraqi and Saudi Abrams were stripped-down versions with inferior systems and more importantly, came without the heavy armor package that is included in their own tanks and the ones they sell to their closest allies. Plus, the crews were not at all trained to a good enough level and neither were their doctrines as well developed as is often the case with the Arab armies.
Besides, Konkurs are not outdated at all. Those things can pen ~850mm of RHA after ERA, which is more than enough to pierce the side armor of any tank except perhaps the Merkava MkIV.

unless you might change your mind if the T-90s being offered to india had relikt armour?

Nah, I would still prefer the latest iteration of the Abrams given they came with all the bells and whistles attached including the heavy armor package.

By the way, you probably do not know that, but the Indian ERA tiles that are fitted on the T-90S and Arjun MkIAs are better than the original 4S22 Kontakt 5, and are close to the 4S23 version of it.

 

[Blood+]

Weight has always been a sore spot for the Army, the Arjun program was a response to the supposed pakistani acquisition of Abrams. Since that is no longer a possibility Army wants it's tank fleet to realistically stay around the 50 tonnes weight mark

Yeah, quite lame to be honest since historically, they had no problems with ~53 ton Centurion MkVIIIs and with worse infrastructure.
.

For that purpose the T-90 is well suited and even the NGMBT in development promises to stay around that weight class.

Yeah, quite a tall order considering even the Ruskies couldn't achieve that with their Armata, despite all their prior experience.

 

[blackjack]

Iraqi and Saudi Abrams were stripped-down versions with inferior systems and more importantly, came without the heavy armor package that is included in their own tanks and the ones they sell to their closest allies. Plus, the crews were not at all trained to a good enough level and neither were their doctrines as well developed as is often the case with the Arab armies.
Besides, Konkurs are not outdated at all. Those things can pen ~850mm of RHA after ERA, which is more than enough to pierce the side armor of any tank except perhaps the Merkava MkIV.

the m1a2S is based off the m1a2SEP so i am assuming that is 3rd generation depleted uranium armour and the other sep versions are urban kits and some sensors/optics for upgrades

By the way, you probably do not know that, but the Indian ERA tiles that are fitted on the T-90S and Arjun MkIAs are better than the original 4S22 Kontakt 5, and are close to the 4S23 version of it.

what is the armour protection on that vs RHA heat or kinetic rounds? relikt is also better than kontakt