Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E

s002wjh

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Stop making a jackass of yourself. The technology that the west brings into your manufacturing sector is also protected intellectual property - which is also eventually copied and made a mockery out of. Your defence industry thrives on copies. There is not a single product you can name in your defence industry that is not a rip off of some equivalent foreign design. And the Russians have borne the brunt of it.

It never ceases to amuse me when the Chinese justify their 'means to an end' theory.
don't be ignorant, security in US corporation are top notch, its not that easy to steal information from these company. most western coporation went to china jointly developmen/manufacture their prodcuts. in others world the chinese government require western company to have a chinese partner, and hand/sold the technology willingly to their chinese partner in order to access local markets. my friend who work at GM as oversea manager told me about this, there are also tons information regarding this on the net.

also i don't live in china nor i was grow up there. i pretty much grow up in US, 2nd gen asian-american. when it come to china ill try to be neutral about it.

now china did make alot knock off. fake LV bag, copied window cd etc. but the core technology from US corporation cannot be easily copied or steal. alot chinese auto company are partner with GM, FORD, VW and other western/japanese companies. they bought/import technology from these company.

same thing with their bullet train, they import technology/train from german, then later make an cheaper/improve version of it. alot western company only think about short term profits without thinking about long term damage. they willing to sell anything just to get into huge chinese middle class.
 
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addiction

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it was logical conclusion, if India is not buying Su35 then at some point in time Russia would would have to sell them to Chinese.

Su35 have no canards owing to better/advanced aerodynamics, they are better to Su 30, thats why they are Su35 !!!

if China is getting these Su35 then they may also get the advanced avionics / radar / weapon suite that may have been offered to us (India),
which means our so called "Air Superiority" with Su 30 is compromised. our adversary knows what we really have.

i was hoping this logical conclusion didnt happen ever since India refused Su35. but alas :drunk:

our babus dont know about "technology denial" even after being victim ourselves.

they musy have ordered some minimum numbers (of Su 35) that would have stopped Russians from seeking any customers for their Su35.
damn we didnt do it.
Is Su-35 better than PakFa?..we did no make any mistake by not shortlisting su-35 for our MMRCA..,,it is not even better than our customized MKI...One more thing, Rus will never give out its best to China...so it is just a business in disguise....no real threat to India or nothing to gain for China...only a transaction that will keep the relationship going between China and Russia!
 

trackwhack

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don't be ignorant, security in US corporation are top notch, its not that easy to steal information from these company. most western coporation went to china jointly developmen/manufacture their prodcuts. in others world the chinese government require western company to have a chinese partner, and hand/sold the technology willingly to their chinese partner in order to access local markets. my friend who work at GM as oversea manager told me about this, there are also tons information regarding this on the net.

also i don't live in china nor i was grow up there. i pretty much grow up in US, 2nd gen asian-american. when it come to china ill try to be neutral about it.

You are a second gen Asian American in the US. You spelling a grammar will make the regular 50 cent army proud. The rest of what you posted is pure bull. You have also conveniently avoided the countering the statement that there is not one speck of Chiense defence equipment that is not a rip off of foreign tech. So stuff it. I couldnt care about you stupid rant and I am not gonna waste my time responding to your frail and futile justification of stealing and IP violations.
 

s002wjh

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You are a second gen Asian American in the US. You spelling a grammar will make the regular 50 cent army proud. The rest of what you posted is pure bull. You have also conveniently avoided the countering the statement that there is not one speck of Chiense defence equipment that is not a rip off of foreign tech. So stuff it. I couldnt care about you stupid rant and I am not gonna waste my time responding to your frail and futile justification of stealing and IP violations.
well consider i'm typing fast and dont check my spelling. its not like i'm writing a report.
what rip off, J20, j10 look at spec/design, is it a ripoff. clearly you mind is already sit on chinese can only copy stuff. they do copy software stuff and some exterior design, but you are just ignorant as your comrades if you think all chiense stuff are copied. no wonder this site is for india fanboy ONLY.

proof to me that 52C, j20 are copy from US/europe. link, source. the only thing you can find are claims indicate those platform has some influence from western ships/planes.
 

J20!

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The serial production of Su 35 has just started

First the order for Russian Airforce will be fulfilled

Meanwhile India's Super Su 30 program will soon be underway

And PAK FA / FGFA will also be ready by 2018

The Chinese are FINALLY ADMITTING several things

1. J 10 A and B are junk

2. China is SCARED of RAFALE ; PAKFA and Super Sukhoi 30 MKI of IAF

3. J 20 will NOT happen before 2025 and Even then it will be INFERIOR to PAKFA and F 35

The IAF's future acquisitions such as PAK FA ; RAFALE and Super Su 30 AND
F 35 ; F 15 SE; F 16 Block 60 with US ; Taiwan ; Japan and South Korea have RATTLED the Dragon
One, the PLAAF operates over a thousand fast jets, along with a budget comparable to India's entire defence budget. Do you think if all you're saying is true, they'd buy only 48. I mean if its situation was as dire as you say they'd buy hundreds of them yes?


Two, this would be a major deal, every respectable defence expert would be commenting on it. Its amazing how riled up Indians here get over personal opinions in articles or in this case, over poor tabloid reporting. Let me know when you get REAL news...
 

trackwhack

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well consider i'm typing fast and dont check my spelling. its not like i'm writing a report.
what rip off, J20, j10 look at spec/design, is it a ripoff. clearly you mind is already sit on chinese can only copy stuff. they do copy software stuff and some exterior design, but you are just ignorant as your comrades if you think all chiense stuff are copied. no wonder this site is for india fanboy ONLY.

proof to me that 52C, j20 are copy from US/europe. link, source. the only thing you can find are claims indicate those platform has some influence from western ships/planes.
Ok, one last post to put you out of your misery. J20, right now on WS10's. Here is the story on the WS 10

The WS-10 project had it roots in the earlier WS-6 turbofan, which was abandoned at the start of the 1980s.[3] Development of the WS-10 started in 1987 by Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute (606 Institute) of the China Aviation Industry Corporation and was based upon the core of CFM International CFM56 engines imported from the United States in 1982. This core itself deriving from the F16's GE F101 engines. The original WS-10 was found to lack the performance needed for modern jet-powered fighters and was never used to power an aircraft. The design was modified and an improved version, the WS-10A, was tested on a prototype Shenyang J-11 fighter in 2002.[4]
J20 Technology transfer allegations

United States House Committee on Armed Services chairman Howard McKeon said on the J-20 "my understanding is that they built it on information that they received from Russia, from a Russian plane, that they were able to copy".[30] MiG spokeswoman Yelena Fyodorova has denied that any of the project 1.44 materials had been provided to China.[31] Globalsecurity.org states that China probably declined to participate in joint development and production of a new fifth-generation fighter with Russia given the belief that Russia stood to gain more from Chinese participation. Chinese leaders may have determined that their design was superior to the Russian PAK FA.[32]

Balkan military officials told the Associated Press that China and Russia may have adopted some stealth technology from a Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk, which was shot down by the Serbian military in 1999 during the Kosovo war.[33] If Chinese experts used the F-117 stealth coatings, the result would be decades behind current American state-of-the-art.[34] However, Chinese test pilot Xu Yongling said that the J-20 was a "masterpiece" of home-grown innovation, he also said the F-117 technology was already "outdated" even at the time it was shot down, and could not be applied to a next-generation stealth jet.[35] Janes editor James Hardy agrees that it was unlikely China would have learned much from the wreckage.[36]

Retired USAF General Thomas G. McInerney has suggested that the J-20 design may have been based on cyber-espionage of the Lockheed Martin FB-22 project.[37]

A United States federal prosecutor has suggested that China may have used technology supplied by Noshir Gowadia from the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit program for their stealth aircraft.[38]

Chief of the Air Staff of the Indian Air Force Pradeep Vasant Naik has suggested that the J-20 is entirely reverse engineered with no Chinese R&D involved, and questioned if the practice was ethical.[39]

Russian military commentator Ilya Kramnik conjectures that China is still 10 to 15 years behind the United States and Russia in fighter technology and may not be able to manufacture all the advanced composite materials, avionics and sensor packages needed for such aircraft, and could instead turn to foreign suppliers.[40] On the other hand, he speculates that China may be able to produce the J-20 at a cost 50% to 80% lower than US and Russian fifth-generation jet fighters, and that potential customers may include Pakistan, the Middle East, Latin America, Southeast Asia and the richest countries in Africa.[40] Konstantin Sivkov of the Academy for Geopolitical Issues argued that the US is correct to be alarmed at the progress of Chinese military technology.[41] Mikhail Pogosyan, head of the United Aircraft Corporation, has claimed that the Chinese program is more of a demonstration and that they lack the scale and experience to complete the project.[42]
When you finally manage to get the WS 15 to run we will talk about what you copied that off.

Now next example please. I can go on all day busting whatever Chinese defence system as nothing but reverse engineered, blatantly copied replicas that severely under perform the originlas. Thats how innovative you guys are. And yes, this is an Indian forum, what else would you expect but Indian fanboys?
 

trackwhack

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One, the PLAAF operates over a thousand fast jets, along with a budget comparable to India's entire defence budget. Do you think if all you're saying is true, they'd buy only 48. I mean if its situation was as dire as you say they'd buy hundreds of them yes?


Two, this would be a major deal, every respectable defence expert would be commenting on it. Its amazing how riled up Indians here get over personal opinions in articles or in this case, over poor tabloid reporting. Let me know when you get REAL news...
Your Airforce know it needs those planes to maintain some sort of parity against the IAF. From the Tibetan bases, your thousands of underpowered jets can hardly take off with their onboard fuel, let alone adequate armaments and will get shot out of the sky in minutes. You need some good planes to offset the MKI's and the Rafales by the time they enter service.

And then you need some more because the FGFA would be entering service right about when you have completed acquisition of the Su 35's. Good luck.
 

blueblood

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i'm not a chinese. i'm an american live in US majority of my live. I don't belief J-10 is on par with typhoon/eurofighter, but based on its spec, it has about similar capabilities as some the later block of F16.

Chengdu J-10 of course this is just an amature site, but there are other place that have J10 info.

J10 represent a significant step for chinese toward building domestic fighter jets and eventual goal of become self sufficent. its not as good as many chinese fanboys claim to be, but its still a good/decent jet.
You being an American just proved my point. Chinese do not admit the role of Israel and Lavi in the concept and design of J-10. It is indeed a decent jet, but comparing it to flankers, euro canards and f-teens is simply preposterous.

J-10 is nowhere near the later blocks of F-16s because F-16 is a multirole which has proven air to air capabilities. There is a reason why Indians are against the idea of giving even a handful of more F-16s to Pak but are totally unfazed by their projected 250 JF-17s.

OTOH, J-10 is claimed to be an air superiority ac with a radar with unknown capabilities. For eg - Soviets flew their flankers and fulcrums to Farnborough to show what they were capable of. Capabilities of Gripen, Rafale and Typhoon were recently seen in the Swiss competition. Seeing is believing mate.

For J-10, all I have seen is a CCP sponsored video in CCTV in which a J-10 shoots down a F-5 from "Topgun". I would love to Chinese participate in an international exercise to show their mettle. Until then, a bunch of 50 cent blogs can say whatever they want, I simply choose not to believe it.
 

Mad Indian

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clearly you mind is already sit on chinese can only copy stuff. they do copy software stuff and some exterior design, but you are just ignorant as your comrades if you think all chiense stuff are copied. no wonder this site is for india fanboy ONLY.
.
thats because its true chinese fanboy. Now instead of avoiding his question, why dont you provide a single piece of work which the Chinese did on their own as he had asked.
 
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StarShip Enterprise

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Is Su-35 better than PakFa?..we did no make any mistake by not shortlisting su-35 for our MMRCA..,,it is not even better than our customized MKI...One more thing, Rus will never give out its best to China...so it is just a business in disguise....no real threat to India or nothing to gain for China...only a transaction that will keep the relationship going between China and Russia!
well, Su 35 is not 5th Gen and therefore not equal to PakFa.
remember Su 35 not offered in MMRCA, cos SU 35 is not 'medium role' but "Air Superiority" aircraft.

give me some logic :
that the Chinese are totally insane, they donot know these Su 35 are going to be crappy than the Su 30 MKI.
yet they are going to do "$4-bln contract for just 48 Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E fighter jets.

to think Chinese will take $ 4 bn and throw away on some piece of crap is waste of time, simply put.

they are already many steps ahead of us in strategic positioning, we are either catching up or merely responding...

"Technology Denial" to Chinese is very critical. cos its the one thing that we have advantage on our side.

Chinese may be economic giant but they lack millitary technology.


"KILLER INSTINCT" is the need of the hour when we have those ............ camped on our north and north eastern sectors.
"
 

Mad Indian

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Engineer jailed for selling US stealth bomber technology to China - Telegraph

Hey fanboy, here is the link about the Chinese invention of Stealth technology:rofl::rofl:


A former B-2 stealth bomber engineer has been jailed for 32 years by a US court for selling military secrets to China.

China unveiled the Chengdu J20 stealth fighter this month
By Peter Foster7:00AM GMT 25 Jan 2011
Noshir Gowadia, 66, made profits of at least USD$110,000 (£68,000) by selling classified engine technology that China needed for its design of a stealth cruise missile that could evade infra-red detection, the court heard.
"He broke his oath of loyalty to this country," said Judge Susan Oki Mollway passing sentence after a hearing in Honolulu, Hawaii, "He was found guilty of marketing valuable technology to foreign countries for personal gain." Gowadia, an engineer with the Northrop Grumman Corporation between 1968-88 who worked on the B-2 design, made repeated trips to China between 2003 and 2005 providing "defence services" to China's cruise missile programme as a freelance consultant.
The prosecution had called on the judge to impose a life sentence on Gowadia who used the proceeds of the sales to fund a luxury lifestyle on Hawaii where he lived in a multi-million dollar home overlooking the ocean on Maui.
Defence lawyers for Gowadia, an Indian-born engineer who worked on the engine design for the B-2 bomber, had argued that he had sold only unclassified technology.
However after a 40-day trial, he was convicted on 14 charges including communicating national defence information to aid a foreign nation, violating the arms export control act and several counts of money-laundering and tax fraud.
 
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J20!

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Your Airforce know it needs those planes to maintain some sort of parity against the IAF. From the Tibetan bases, your thousands of underpowered jets can hardly take off with their onboard fuel, let alone adequate armaments and will get shot out of the sky in minutes. You need some good planes to offset the MKI's and the Rafales by the time they enter service.

And then you need some more because the FGFA would be entering service right about when you have completed acquisition of the Su 35's. Good luck.
Is that why you're so worried about them? Because they're underpowered and cant carry external fuel? All you've got is fanboy babbling... When you're actually giving technical analysis instead of the DFI indian classic "your airforce is junk and ours is Jesus", I'll reply your posts, but till then, Au revoir mon ami.


PS, money makes the world go round child, the fact that the PLAAF can field a budget that's more or less your entire defence budget, should tell you how outmatched you really are in actual combat, not this forum chitchat about "super-duper" MKI, and "junk PLAAF"...
 

trackwhack

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Is that why you're so worried about them? Because they're underpowered and cant carry external fuel? All you've got is fanboy babbling... When you're actually giving technical analysis instead of the DFI indian classic "your airforce is junk and ours is Jesus", I'll reply your posts, but till then, Au revoir mon ami.


PS, money makes the world go round child, the fact that the PLAAF can field a budget that's more or less your entire defence budget, should tell you how outmatched you really are in actual combat, not this forum chitchat about "super-duper" MKI, and "junk PLAAF"...
Money may make the world go round but who the hell is gonna sell you planes other that Russian rejects and that too after they tweak your ear and insult you a bit. Remember these are planes that we rejected. Not that they are bad but our Air force determined that the MKI with AESA and other goodies was superior and the EF and Rafale were also superior.

Like I said with all you money, by the time the 50 planes are ready to fly in China, we will be inducting the first squadron of T-50's and would have completed induction of more than half the Rafales. Go Figure.

btw. Armand will be thrilled that you are now trying french. What a loser.:rofl:

The more important question is with all the hullabaloo over the J20 super plane, why are you stillbuying Su 35's? :lol:
 

Mad Indian

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PS, money makes the world go round child, the fact that the PLAAF can field a budget that's more or less your entire defence budget, should tell you how outmatched you really are in actual combat, not this forum chitchat about "super-duper" MKI, and "junk PLAAF"...
Yeah right, your military is super dooper so much so that it beats the Americans:frusty:

The only reason your dastardly govt has not attacked India is because it knows it will be given a big ----ing bloody nose by the Indian armed forces... unlike you lot, we have not turned every neighbour of us into our enemy... neither are we facing the americans... so take this stupid budget comparison elsewhere..
 
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ice berg

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How about we close this silly thread until the so called sale is complete? Without further confirmation this thread is turning to a flamming feast. Mods sleeping?
Look at all those posts. Guess rumours is the only standard here. :rolleyes:
 

G90

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Russia is country of wankers.

They have been wanked that China would buy their junky SU-33, SU-35, TU-22, MIG-31, MIG-29,PAK-FA for decades , and still so far,NOT EVEN A SINGLE NEWS SOUCE FROM the CHINA SIDE REMOTELY CONFIRM THEIR DAYDREAMS.

Instead, there are many source, from senior Chinese airforce officials, confirmed news like Chinese have little interests in PAK-FA because they considered PAK-FA is not a real 5th generation fighter, and the like.

Su-35 is a joke,and the junky russian news where claim China want their junky Su-35 again is a cruel joke, just mark my words, hehehe.
 

badguy2000

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The Su-35 is no way far superior to the MKI, the upgraded super MKi will be better in many ways.
not long ago, RUssia also blahed that CHina was to order 50 Su33 ....haha,, I wish that the Deal of su35 not be to end like that of Su33
 

cir

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Since when has the Russians become day dreamers?:rofl:
 

SPIEZ

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not long ago, RUssia also blahed that CHina was to order 50 Su33 ....haha,, I wish that the Deal of su35 not be to end like that of Su33
Su33 development was stopped because India decided to go with the MiG 29 K for it's aircraft carrier, developing another naval aircraft would be waste of money, hence it su33 development was stopped.
 

cir

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If I were the Russians, I would sell some engines to China in a haste, and for 2 reasons:

(1)China is still interested in the BEST(remember,it has to be the BEST)engine tech that Russsia has to offer。

(2)China hasn't yet built up enough capacity to satisfy the huge volumes demanded of the SW-10 and its variants for J-11B、J11-BS、J-15、J-16、J-10B etc。China also needs replacement engines for its older fleets of Su-27s,J-11As、Su-30MKKs and Su-30MK2s。

The need will be there only for the next 3-5 years。 Instead of indulging itself in wild goose chasing,Russia should get a move on and seize this last opportunity before it disappears into emptiness。:rofl:
 

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