Sukhoi Su-35 Flanker-E

[Tolaha]

^^ Are you sure you still need those engines from Russia? Remember, Chinese are far ahead of Russians... New fighters are running on indigenous engines etc.

Eventually, Chinese will come up with quality engines. Maybe until then atleast, Chinese should stop their "cheap talk" about Russians.

 

[nimo_cn]

Damn. This was the only thing I did not want to happen. China getting state of the art, modern aircraft.

48 is too many, wtf is the Indian lobby in Russia doing?

Perhaps the Super MKI will push it far ahead of the Su-35, quite like how US keeps saying they will sell F-16s to PAF because a squadron or two of advanced aircraft won't really make a difference to IAF.

But yeah. It kills the claims of the Chinese internet army, that their technology even compares to Russia let alone the rest of the world. Time to remind them they are little babies in this field too.



The names are too big to be ignored.



Nothing PLA does is open to scrutiny. We know about a Su-35 deal only because Russia revealed it.



Su-35 was never evaluated in India, so there is no question of rejection. If is just that the MKI is very similar to the Su-35 and it makes no difference if we go for the BM when we have Rafales and PAKFAs coming up next.

To be honest, I don't want this deal to happen. But I doubt GOI's opinion matters in this case. For sure, there will be a lot of hurt egos in your country if this deal happens.

In that case, you shall rest in peace, because that deal won't happen.

It is an old trick that has been played by Russians before, for example the mysterious Su-33 deal with China.

Russia to Deliver Su-33 Fighters to China-(how quaint carrier aircraft)
Russia's state exporter of weapons, Rosoboronexport is completing negotiations to ship to China up to 50 Su-33 jet fighters for a total worth of $2.5 billion. If the deal is ever clinched, it will be the second biggest contract for export of Russia's armaments. Till late this year, China will buy in Russia two Su-33 jet fighters on trial for the aircraft carrier that is currently constructed. The deal value is around $100 million, sources close to negotiations said. Bound by the very tough confidential agreements on military cooperation, Rosoboronexport doesn't comment on the talks.

But the sources say the contract will be sealed in December in Beijing. The aircraft will be constructed by Komsomolsk-on-Amur Production Association and tested by China at the ground range and at Varyag aircraft carrier that was acquired in Ukraine in 1999 and which construction is being completed now. Russia uses Su-33 only at Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier.

China intends to come up with its own aircraft carrier by 2010, equipping it with foreign jets. But it will probably attempt to design its own variant of Su-33 by using Russia's technology.

The agreed option provides for delivery of 12 more Su-33 jets. The consignment may widen to 48, stepping up the budget to $2.5 billion. Should it happen, it would be the second biggest military and technological contract of Russia, trailing in size only the $3-billion agreement for Su-30MKI license assembly in India.

"Theoretically, China can make aircraft. They have mastered license assembly of J-11, the actual Su-27SK. The question is how much it will cost and how efficient it will be in operation," said Konstantin Makienko, an expert of Strategy and Technology Center

Guess what happened next?

Russian-Chinese Su-33 fighter deal collapses | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk

MOSCOW: Russia has refused to sell its Su-33 carrier-based fighters to China over fears that Beijing could produce cheaper export versions of the aircraft, a Russian daily said on Tuesday.

The Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper said that China and Russia had been in negotiations on the sale of 50 of the Su-33 Flanker-D fighters, to be used on future Chinese aircraft carriers, since 2006, but that the talks collapsed recently over China's request for an initial delivery of two aircraft for a "trial."

Russian Defense Ministry sources confirmed that the refusal was due to findings that China had produced its own copycat version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements.

In 1995, China secured a $2.5-billion production license from Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed J-11A, at the Shenyang Aircraft Corp.

The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China was developing an indigenous version, J-11B, with Chinese avionics and systems. The decision came after China had already produced 95 aircraft.

I won't be suprised that the unconfirmed Su35 deal collapse for the same reason and then China is singled out and mocked by Indians at DFI

 

[p2prada]

In that case, you shall rest in peace, because that deal won't happen.

It is an old trick that has been played by Russians before, for example the mysterious Su-33 deal with China.

There is always a possibility of a deal collapsing.

I won't be suprised that the unconfirmed Su35 deal collapse for the same reason and then China is singled out and mocked by Indians at DFI

The Su-33 had the old AL-31F engines. The Su-35 has the more modern 117S. Copying the same would be tougher and more or less unnecessary when the J-20 is coming out anyway.

IMO, the Su-33 is very old compared to today's standards. The Su-33 deal collapsed because the Russians are not able to keep the production line running. That's why even they ordered Mig-29Ks instead. It is obvious PLAN is better off with the J-15.

At first even IAF had signed a deal for 50 MKIs followed by 140 four years later and another 80 a decade later. So, this Su-35 deal may be an initial requirement until Russia delivers a more China specific aircraft later on.

Like I already said. This should not happen if I am looking out for my country's interests.

Anyway the articles you produced do not quote any sources like the first Su-35 related article quoting Alexander Fomin, a big name in Russia.

 

[G90]

The thread is too long for a worthless piece of wanking russian wanker's garbage rumuor, every now and then russian wankers will get some of such kind of ***** out from their ****

 

[s002wjh]

Ok, one last post to put you out of your misery. J20, right now on WS10's. Here is the story on the WS 10





When you finally manage to get the WS 15 to run we will talk about what you copied that off.

Now next example please. I can go on all day busting whatever Chinese defence system as nothing but reverse engineered, blatantly copied replicas that severely under perform the originlas. Thats how innovative you guys are. And yes, this is an Indian forum, what else would you expect but Indian fanboys?

allegations? is that best you can find. Suggestted?? seriouslly F22 is one of the most portected secret in US, ill be suprise china can hack into these company and steal the design. that really shows chinese cyberwarfare is even better than most people believed.

I hope this is not a source from a russia, which they claim every product in china is copied from them. russia even claim j10 is a copy from su27 before. some of the exterior design and parts may have design influence from western nation, but to claim the entire project is base on copies is ridiculous.

and as i said before many country sold technology to china, and later found china make an improve version of the product. bullet train is an example. there is no point of re-invent the wheel if access to these technology already exist. Now ill be impressed if India can build a 5th gen jet on their own.

by the way hows LCA doing, are all technology from LCA never influenced by foreign design.

even in sinodefence forum there are people who wrote rational argument rather than said this sucks etc. i expect some indian actually has knowledge on weapon platform between india and china. and make arguement base on spec, facts rather than bias. if every indian said J20 sucks, or its total copy etc, this is really just an indication of "sour grape type" .

An Initial Assessment of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter

 

[trackwhack]

The thread is too long for a worthless piece of wanking russian wanker's garbage rumuor, every now and then russian wankers will get some of such kind of ***** out from their ****

But all your weapons systems are copies of Russian systems. And even with copying they are inferior to the parent systems.

S.E.L.F. E.S.T.E.E.M.

 

[trackwhack]

allegations? is that best you can find. Suggestted?? seriouslly F22 is one of the most portected secret in US, ill be suprise china can hack into these company and steal the design. that really shows chinese cyberwarfare is even better than most people believed.

I hope this is not a source from a russia, which they claim every product in china is copied from them. russia even claim j10 is a copy from su27 before. some of the exterior design and parts may have design influence from western nation, but to claim the entire project is base on copies is ridiculous.

and as i said before many country sold technology to china, and later found china make an improve version of the product. bullet train is an example. there is no point of re-invent the wheel if access to these technology already exist. Now ill be impressed if India can build a 5th gen jet on their own.

by the way hows LCA doing, are all technology from LCA never influenced by foreign design.

even in sinodefence forum there are people who wrote rational argument rather than said this sucks etc. i expect some indian actually has knowledge on weapon platform between india and china. and make arguement base on spec, facts rather than bias. if every indian said J20 sucks, or its total copy etc, this is really just an indication of "sour grape type" .

An Initial Assessment of China's J-20 Stealth Fighter

LCA is fine, its not based on stolen tech.

J20 is based on stolen tech. Lets wait for WS15 to work first. Then we can call it a plane. Then we can say you are at least competent at copying.

 

[ice berg]

Consider f-22 is the only operational fifth generation fighter, I am really interested to know where did China stole the tech from.

When you try to spread false information, at least make some effort. .

 

[ice berg]

But all your weapons systems are copies of Russian systems. And even with copying they are inferior to the parent systems.

S.E.L.F. E.S.T.E.E.M.

How will you know one way or another. You can tell just by looking at them? If every internet warrior can tell the difference of weapon systems just by looks, then you will not spend time argueing on the internet.

There are thousands of weapon systems. Only a fool will claim he can trace everything to Russia.

Not to mention Russia is not a Disney world. you dont just walk in and take what you want. Espionage is not that easy. There is no 007.

But hey, what ever rock your boat.

 

[s002wjh]

LCA is fine, its not based on stolen tech.

J20 is based on stolen tech. Lets wait for WS15 to work first. Then we can call it a plane. Then we can say you are at least competent at copying.

right, so the engine and critical component are all design, test by india, never receive help from russia or other country?

J20 is not based on stolen tech, there are big difference between F22 vs j20, even in exterior apperance. at best it has some influence from western design. whether ws15 work or not, its still able to fly, which in defination is a plane. we already seen tons video related to its testing.

http://www.defenceaviation.com/2011...-20-with-f-22-f-35-and-su-pak-fa-or-t-50.html

If we compare the look and design of J-20 you will find that it has a delta-wing-canard layout whereas the F-22 and F-35 have both diamond-wing-conventional layout. The frontal aspect of J-20 looks extremely similar to that of American F-35 JSF with twin DSI intake and V-shaped tail. The J-20 has a canard-delta twin-engine configuration, diverted-less supersonic intakes, and a shaped nose consistent with the use of an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. To maintain stealth, the F-22 carries its weapons in internal bays

 

[trackwhack]

How will you know one way or another. You can tell just by looking at them? If every internet warrior can tell the difference of weapon systems just by looks, then you will not spend time argueing on the internet.

There are thousands of weapon systems. Only a fool will claim he can trace everything to Russia.

Not to mention Russia is not a Disney world. you dont just walk in and take what you want. Espionage is not that easy. There is no 007.

But hey, what ever rock your boat.

You are making a fool of yourself by denying blatantly obvious facts that every one knows.

 

[trackwhack]

right, so the engine and critical component are all design, test by india, never receive help from russia or other country?

J20 is not based on stolen tech, there are big difference between F22 vs j20, even in exterior apperance. at best it has some influence from western design. whether ws15 work or not, its still able to fly, which in defination is a plane. we already seen tons video related to its testing.

We received help, we did not steal. You did not seek or receive help, you stole. Big difference.

 

[ice berg]

You are making a fool of yourself by denying blatantly obvious facts that every one knows.

Ok, i will take your words that you can tell the difference between chinese and russian weapon systems by looks.
I will take your words that China stole everything from Russia.
I will take your words that stealing from Russia is like walk in the park for the chinese,.
I will take your words that Russia knows nothing about espionage.

All those are common knowledge that every one knows. I will take your words on that too.
Have a nice evening.

 

[nrj]

It is chinese fanboys posting only photos of their defence equipment without official specifications still claiming its capability and now they refuse to acknowledge visual analysis? Way to go!

 

[ice berg]

By visual "analysis" you mean your insighful post about chinese weapons capability?

Sorry, i thought we got a dedicated thread where you can post pictures. I am not aware that you have to attach official specifications to every photos.,
Is that a requirement for all photos or only for the chinese pictures?

Make it a requirement if you like.

 

[G90]

But all your weapons systems are copies of Russian systems. And even with copying they are inferior to the parent systems.

S.E.L.F. E.S.T.E.E.M.

In this logic, all weaponary in the world bulit so far are copied of China's weapon since China invented fire powder and guns

 

[s002wjh]

We received help, we did not steal. You did not seek or receive help, you stole. Big difference.

right what kind prove you have that says it has stolen technology, other than some russia source, which they claim j10 is a copy of su27. its not like you can just walk into lockeed and stole the F22 design. all these accusation is bunch BS, if there are source from pentagon says J20 is base on stolen technology from f22 or a crediable says this, then ill belief it. if i dig deeper on the net, ill bet ill find some source says LCA has some stolen russia tech etc etc.

 

[G90]

LCA is fine, its not based on stolen tech.

J20 is based on stolen tech. Lets wait for WS15 to work first. Then we can call it a plane. Then we can say you are at least competent at copying.

Actually Russian junky MIG-1.44 is a poor cheap copy of China's 1960s era J-9V-2 fighter.

 

[trackwhack]

Actually Russian junky MIG-1.44 is a poor cheap copy of China's 1960s era J-9V-2 fighter.

OK all you clowns, I am convinced. You guys must be right.

 

[nrj]

By visual "analysis" you mean your insighful post about chinese weapons capability?

analysis [a·nal·y·ses]
- the division of a physical or abstract whole into its constituent parts to examine or determine their relationship or value Compare synthesis

not sure whats tripping you.

Sorry, i thought we got a dedicated thread where you can post pictures. I am not aware that you have to attach official specifications to every photos.,

The difference between Multimedia and Discussion oriented interactive argument is not difficult to apprehend.

Is that a requirement for all photos or only for the chinese pictures?

That becomes a requirement for all posters on every instance challenged.