Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Aaj ka hero]

One must add super also name to this thread, so no dual creation on sukhois will be there.

 

[WARREN SS]

There are 2 issues with this:
1- for a total passive shot, as in you don't turn on your radar. The attack range will be limited by the laser finder range of OLS irst system, which is often about 15-20 km.
2- R-27ET and R-27T are lock on before launch missile without mid course radio correction. The missile must lock onto target while it is still carried on the launcher. If even OLS-35 won't detect head on target from distance further than 35 km, there isn't much chance for R-27 infared seeker to do such a thing. R-27T and R-27ET are intended to be used as tail chase weapon against target that R-73 unable to reach.

That Is Why Said It Used With combo of ARH And IR
R-27EA And R-27ET are Combo weapons
ET Version has good Extended Head on range of 52 km Unlike previous R-27T version which was 2 to 33 km head-on
Also R-27 has (LOAL) capabilities

Why America Hate Russia's MiG-29 and Su-27 Fighters (And Their Missiles)

A real Cold War danger.

nationalinterest.org

 

[WARREN SS]

HAL is offering an indigenous AESA radar for the MKI upgrade. It's unclear if it's referring to Uttam or 2052 or other AESA

.

 

[Karthi]

HAL is offering an indigenous AESA radar for the MKI upgrade. It's unclear if it's referring to Uttam or 2052 or other AESA

View attachment 46392


.

Most probably UTTAM with GaN TR modules

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Can someone tell me how anti radiation missile works against SAM system in basic words?.

 

[abhay rajput]

Can someone tell me how anti radiation missile works against SAM system in basic words?.

they lock on to emitting signals of radars/ communication radios etc

 

[abhay rajput]

Most probably UTTAM with GaN TR modules

 

[Karthi]

I think it's almost ready

 

[StealthFlanker]

That Is Why Said It Used With combo of ARH And IR
R-27EA And R-27ET are Combo weapons
ET Version has good Extended Head on range of 52 km Unlike previous R-27T version which was 2 to 33 km head-on
Also R-27 has (LOAL) capabilities

Why America Hate Russia's MiG-29 and Su-27 Fighters (And Their Missiles)

A real Cold War danger.

nationalinterest.org

Firstly, there are no R-27EA or R-27EM beyond the paper stage, they were only at the potential concept stage and never went further than that.
Secondly, only the SARH seeker of R-27ER and R-27R have lock on after launch mode and mid course guidance
R-27T and R-27ET (R-27 version with IR seeker) doesn't have lock on after launch and datalink
Some infrared guided missile such as AIM-132, MICA can have LOAL mode because their infrared seekers are FPAs, so they can visually see the 2D picture of target, and they can choose target based on pre-loaded images in their library

R-27T uses 36T IR seeker (same as the one used on R-60M) and R-27ET used MK-80M IR seeker (same as the one used on R-73. Both of those seekers are mono block recticle infrared seeker, they need to be locked on target before launch because they only see the target as a point source.

 

[WARREN SS]

Firstly, there are no R-27EA or R-27EM beyond the paper stage, they were only at the potential concept stage and never went further than that.
Secondly, only the SARH seeker of R-27ER and R-27R have lock on after launch mode and mid course guidance
R-27T and R-27ET (R-27 version with IR seeker) doesn't have lock on after launch and datalink
Some infrared guided missile such as AIM-132, MICA can have LOAL mode because their infrared seekers are FPAs, so they can visually see the 2D picture of target, and they can choose target based on pre-loaded images in their library

R-27T uses 36T IR seeker (same as the one used on R-60M) and R-27ET used MK-80M IR seeker (same as the one used on R-73. Both of those seekers are mono block recticle infrared seeker, they need to be locked on target before launch because they only see the target as a point source.
View attachment 46411

Firstly, there are no R-27EA or R-27EM beyond the paper stage, they were only at the potential concept stage and never went further than that.

R-27 ET Is not On concept stage But Demonstrated
R-27EA, active radar homing with 9B-1103K active seeker, range of >130 km

R-77, R-27EA and Kh-29TE missiles during the International Military Technical Forum Army-2017 at the Patriot Park in Moscow region on August 23, 2017

Long burn R-27ET1 heatseeker variant under the wing of an Su-35 demonstrator. Note larger diameter dual pulse motor section (KnAAPO).

he MWIR two colour high off-boresight gimballed MK-80M series scanning seekers use a Magnesium Fluoride window (Military Parade).

Source

Production

eng.ktrv.ru

Ancile

www.deagel.com

Work Principle With IRS guidance And Inertial Datalink

 

[StealthFlanker]

R-27 ET Is not On concept stage But Demonstrated
R-27EA, active radar homing with 9B-1103K active seeker, range of >130 km


View attachment 46421


R-77, R-27EA and Kh-29TE missiles during the International Military Technical Forum Army-2017 at the Patriot Park in Moscow region on August 23, 2017

View attachment 46420

Long burn R-27ET1 heatseeker variant under the wing of an Su-35 demonstrator. Note larger diameter dual pulse motor section (KnAAPO).

View attachment 46413

You should read carefully what version of R-27 which I said are paper project
R-27EA and R-27EM are paper project
R-27ET, R-27T, R-27R and R-27ER are real missiles that entered the production stage.
9B-1103K is a derivative of 9B-1348E seeker on R-77 (quite easy to see the similarity of their slotted array), it was offered as active seeker for R-27AE version, however, no one take on the offered, so just like R-27EA and R-27EM, it never went to production.
Also, just because we saw the mock up of R-27EA at international military technical forum doesn't mean it is demonstrated, it is a mock up period. Just like ramjet R-77, KS-172 and many others mock up that came before and after it. For a missile or weapon system to be considered at technologies demonstration stage, it must be fly tested, think of Hyfly, X-51...etc that kind of stuff.

the MWIR two colour high off-boresight gimballed MK-80M series scanning seekers use a Magnesium Fluoride window (Military Parade).

View attachment 46418

Not sure what you are trying to prove with this photo?
Yes MK-80M is a high off bore sight seeker, it is used on R-73 after all.
and yes it uses Magnesium Fluoride window because the common glass window will block infrared radiation
But both of that doesn't change the fact that MK-80M is a spinning recticle seeker rather than focal palane array seeker. And as a spinning recticle seeker, it can't be made LOAL because it doesn't see the target as 2D image.

Work Principle With IRS guidance And Inertial Datalink
View attachment 46416

I know how missile with IIR seeker and datalink work.
That picture however is not the working principle of either R-27T or R-27ET, it is a photo taken from the infamous Airpower Australia site, where the author depicts a hypothetical 2 stages missile (which is kinda stupid because if I remember correctly, he just merged a R-74 and R-27 together.

Grisha's Missile \xc2\xabShoot-Off\xc2\xbb

The real R-27ET and R-27T unfortunately doesn't have datalink

 

[StealthFlanker]

AESA radar, with AESA radar you can virtually escape from all type of aerial threats. Only a dedicated EW attack aircraft will ablebto fool a fighter with aesa radar. And against ground based aesa radar, you need to detonate a nuclear bomb in space to blind it.
No, you cannot. AESA radar used to produce multiple frequency. The only way to fool aesa is to generate a white noise comprises the all those frequency. Problem with that type of jamming is that, the jammer attached to your jamming pods cannot produce sufficient powerful white noise. You need dedicated EW aircrafts.
Spectra works on active cancellation or destructive interference. You need to fix the frequency fir that technique. Spectra works well with pesa or dopler radars not against aesa radar.
Thats why american sees s400 as atgreat, the aesa radar of s400 cannot be jammed even with present day growlers.

No, you don't need a dedicated EW aircraft and to fool a fighter with AESA radar and you don't need to detonate a nuclear bomb in space to blind ground based AESA radar
The most important values that you need to consider when assess the effectiveness of jamming are: Jamming to signal ratio (J/S) and Burn-Through Range.”J-to-S” is the ratio of the signal strength of the jamming signal (J) to the signal strength of the target return signal (S). It is expressed as “J/S” and often measured in dB. For jamming to be effective J must exceed S by some amount, therefore, the desired result of a J/S calculation in dB is a positive number. It is a common misconception that J/S ratio required to jam any radar is a fixed value. In reality, however, the required J/S varied significantly depending on jamming techniques and radar type.

Burn-through range is the radar to target distance where the target return signal can first be detected through the ECM and is usually slightly farther than the crossover range where J=S. It is usually the range where the J/S just equals the minimum J/S requirement.

J is affected by: jammer output, jammer antenna gain, distance.
S is affected by: radar output, radar antenna gain, target RCS, distance.
Output is too obvious so I won't explain

For distance:
If your jamming system is self protection jammer, the further you are from the radar, the easier it would be to jam that radar because radar signal will degrade at quicker rate than jammer signal as it has to travel two ways.
If your jamming system is support screen jamming, you would want to maximize the effective radiated jamming signal. There are 2 ways to achieve this:
The first way is make very big, powerful jammer on dedicated EW aircraft so that they can stay at extended range and their jamming can still protect others aircraft, some aircraft of this type are: EA-18G , Su-34

The alternative way is having small jammer but much closer to the threat than the aircraft they need to protect so that the jamming signal will be more powerful than aircraft return, this is more effective than the first way, but also much more dangerous so it is done by expandable drone. Think of MALD-J and SPEAR-EW

For RCS, smaller is better

 

[WARREN SS]

. Just like ramjet R-77, KS-172 and many others mock up that came before and after it.

R-77 Is In Production as Per TMJC

Production

eng.ktrv.ru

I know how missile with IIR seeker and datalink work.
That picture however is not the working principle of either R-27T or R-27ET, it is a photo taken from the infamous Airpower Australia site, where the author depicts a hypothetical 2 stages missile (which is kinda stupid because if I remember correctly, he just merged a R-74 and R-27 together.
Grisha's Missile \xc2\xabShoot-Off\xc2\xbb

I posted That Picture To explain You how Guidance Work With Missile
All Missile's Weather it Aim-120 or R77 or R-27 Employs Active radar Seekers At terminal Stage
Before that they have two stage guidance mode Same goes For R-27 ET
Its Employs Its IR seeker When It Reaches at Terminal Stage Near 40-50 km depends on Altitude

In control system of all missiles, in addition to seeker, an inertial navigation system with radio-correction is included.

The R-27T1 and R-27ET1 medium-range air-to-air missiles with IR homing heads are designed to engage various air targets, such as highly manoeuvrable aircraft, helicopters and the like, in the front and rear hemispheres, by day and night, in spite of natural and organazed jamming, in compliance with the "fire-and-forget" principle.

The missile guidance system employs an updated proportional navigation method with the target lock-on accomplished on the suspension under the carrier.

The missiles' fusing systems are based on radar proximity and impact target sensors.

Source

Production

eng.ktrv.ru

 

[WARREN SS]

Firstly, there are no R-27EA or R-27EM beyond the paper stage, they were only at the potential concept stage and never went further than that.
Secondly, only the SARH seeker of R-27ER and R-27R have lock on after launch mode and mid course guidance
R-27T and R-27ET (R-27 version with IR seeker) doesn't have lock on after launch and datalink
Some infrared guided missile such as AIM-132, MICA can have LOAL mode because their infrared seekers are FPAs, so they can visually see the 2D picture of target, and they can choose target based on pre-loaded images in their library

R-27T uses 36T IR seeker (same as the one used on R-60M) and R-27ET used MK-80M IR seeker (same as the one used on R-73. Both of those seekers are mono block recticle infrared seeker, they need to be locked on target before launch because they only see the target as a point source.
View attachment 46411

Since You Talking About FPA Technology I Don't Know About Russians But India Is At very Advanced Stage of FPA Technology Here Research Paper By IIT Bombay

 

[StealthFlanker]

R-77 Is In Production as Per TMJC

Production

eng.ktrv.ru

Firstly, the missile in that link is RVV-BD which is supposed to be a modernized version of R-37 on Mig-31, it got no relation to R-77 whatsoever (it should be quite obvious as well since RVV-BD is 500 kg while R-77 is about 190 kg)
Secondly, ramjet R-77 aka R-77M is not in production, the current exported version of R-77 is RVV-SD and the one in development for Su-57 is izdeliye 180, none of these above have ramjet engine. This is the ramjet R-77 that I talked about:

I posted That Picture To explain You how Guidance Work With Missile
All Missile's Weather it Aim-120 or R77 or R-27 Employs Active radar Seekers At terminal Stage
Before that they have two stage guidance mode Same goes For R-27 ET
Its Employs Its IR seeker When It Reaches at Terminal Stage Near 40-50 km depends on Altitude

In control system of all missiles, in addition to seeker, an inertial navigation system with radio-correction is included.

The R-27T1 and R-27ET1 medium-range air-to-air missiles with IR homing heads are designed to engage various air targets, such as highly manoeuvrable aircraft, helicopters and the like, in the front and rear hemispheres, by day and night, in spite of natural and organazed jamming, in compliance with the "fire-and-forget" principle.

The missile guidance system employs an updated proportional navigation method with the target lock-on accomplished on the suspension under the carrier.
View attachment 46436

The missiles' fusing systems are based on radar proximity and impact target sensors.

Source

Production

eng.ktrv.ru

I certainly don't need you to explain how Guidance Work With Missile. And no, not all missile active their sensor at the terminal phase. Most infrared guided missiles, especially spin reticle IR missiles must locked on target before they are launched.
I mean do you even pay attention to the source you have just quoted? do you even understand what is " target lock-on accomplished on the suspension under the carrier. "?

Production

eng.ktrv.ru

Production

eng.ktrv.ru

They actually explain the lock on mode different between R-27R / R-27ER and R-27T/R-27ET quite clear
R-27R and R-27ER have radio corrected guidance while R-27T and R-27ET don't. They also specifically said that target lock on must be accomplished on the suspension under the carrier - (meaning the seeker must lock on the target while the missile is still on the rail under the aircraft wing, just like any other IR missile with a spinning reticle seeker)

 

[StealthFlanker]

Since You Talking About FPA Technology I Don't Know About Russians But India Is At very Advanced Stage of FPA Technology Here Research Paper By IIT Bombay

Did I say India technology is bad? No.
I only talk about current R-27T and R-27ET because they use spin reticle seeker, they can't be made LOAL

 

[WARREN SS]

And no, not all missile active their sensor at the terminal phase. Most infrared guided missiles, especially spin reticle IR missiles must locked on target before they are launched.

That Why Most Of those IIR missiles are CCM 's Like R-73E And Aim-9x

I mean do you even pay attention to the source you have just quoted? do you even understand what is " target lock-on accomplished on the suspension under the carrier. "?

Yes I know What I quoted Since Yourself Don't Under Stand the Principle

Kinematic Range R-27 ET Is 120 km While IR seeker It Carries Only has detection Of 14 Km at terminal stage Same Way a Active Radar Seekers Works

How do you think Missile Will Launched at range 100 km When active seeker just has Acquisition range of Max 20-25 km For whether Its R-77 Or Aim-120 D It uses Data link Via AWACS Or pe-loaded Inertial Navigation

That Why I said most BVRAAM have Two stage guidance mode
Inertial For Launch And cover distance of Kinematic range While Second Guidance At terminal stage

 

[scatterStorm]

Curious, is R27 better than R77?

Or you are basing this notion upon IAF's recent bulk buying choice of R27?

R27 range and internal electronics are much better compared to older R77.

R-27 ER- Semi-active radar homing- max range: 117km
R-27 ET- IR homing- max range: 104km
R-27 EA- Active seeker- max range: >130km
R-27 EM- Active seeker- max range: >170km

I think these ranges are for ideal straight glide paths. If you are subduing the missile to increase its AoA, these ranges become less effective.

 

[scatterStorm]

R-27 is q

We ordered R-27 ER1 and ET1 variants after the Balakot episode.
Wonder why we did not procure EA and EM variants considering they have significantly longer ranges.

Must be the integration issue with Radar and onboard fire solution computer?

 

[StealthFlanker]

That Why Most Of those IIR missiles are CCM 's Like R-73E And Aim-9x

Firstly, the seeker of R-73E and AIM-9X are not the same, R-73E use MK-80M which is a spinning reticle seeker. Whereas AIM-9X use a FPA seeker. In other words, R-73 is an infrared missile (IR) while the AIM-9X is an imaging infrared (IIR) missile.
Secondly, the initial version of AIM-9X doesn't have LOAL capability, LOAL is only added at block II

Yes I know What I quoted Since Yourself Don't Under Stand the Principle
Kinematic Range R-27 ET Is 120 km While IR seeker It Carries Only has detection Of 14 Km at terminal stage Same Way a Active Radar Seekers Works
How do you think Missile Will Launched at range 100 km When active seeker just has Acquisition range of Max 20-25 km For whether Its R-77 Or Aim-120 D It uses Data link Via AWACS Or pe-loaded Inertial Navigation
That Why I said most BVRAAM have Two stage guidance mode
Inertial For Launch And cover distance of Kinematic range While Second Guidance At terminal stage

Very simple because R-27T and R-27ET are not supposed to be launch at 100 km.
And no, the seeker of R-77 and AIM-120 doesn't work on the same way as R-27T and R-27ET seeker, because as active radar seeker, they are capable of LOAL while as you can see, even the producer admitted that R-27T and R-27ET must lock on target while they are still on the weapon pylon, because they use spin reticle infrared seeker, you can't add LOAL capability to that type of seeker.
And like I said, infrared version of R-27 are tail chase weapons, the method was to launch R-27R or R-27ER, and if the target run away in afterburner, you launch R-27T or R-27ET (whichever available) because those missile will have better chance of reaching a receding target than R-73 thanks to their motor

Must be the integration issue with Radar and onboard fire solution computer?

No, it is because R-27EA and EM were never produced, they are paper project just like R-77M and KS-172