Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Kshithij]

Why concern they can re furbish the Su-30MKI with new systems that made in india rather than importing from russia.
This will keep the line operational.

Refurbishing will not be enough to replace the order. Refurbishment will be done only in some cases like Radar, EW etc. The engine, airframe is already Indian and can't be upgraded. Even avionics is made by HAL-SAMTEL. There is actually very little to refurbish.

The only way is to replace Su30 by Tejas line or get some other fighters like MiG35 from Russia (MiG35 is upgraded MiG29). MiG35 can also be used in aircraft carrier - Vikrant, by modifying like MiG29K

 

[tharun]

Refurbishing will not be enough to replace the order. Refurbishment will be done only in some cases like Radar, EW etc. The engine, airframe is already Indian and can't be upgraded. Even avionics is made by HAL-SAMTEL. There is actually very little to refurbish.

The only way is to replace Su30 by Tejas line or get some other fighters like MiG35 from Russia (MiG35 is upgraded MiG29). MiG35 can also be used in aircraft carrier - Vikrant, by modifying like MiG29K

Seriously we making everything in India?
Go to IAF website search for the make in india project.
You will find tens of su-30 mki parts which need to indigenized.
Most of su-30 mki is now old we need to replace old russian parts with ours and use composite parts to reduce the radar signature.

 

[SilentKiller]

Being in CHD unable to witness this makes me sad ...

Seen C17s and C130j in chd but never a Su30

 

[Kshithij]

Seriously we making everything in India?
Go to IAF website search for the make in india project.
You will find tens of su-30 mki parts which need to indigenized.
Most of su-30 mki is now old we need to replace old russian parts with ours and use composite parts to reduce the radar signature.

India is capable of making entire Su30 MKI as India has all critical technology. The ability to manufacture spares and some items like ejection seats already exists in India. In fact, India made its own ejection seat for MiG21 and MiG27. However, India has contract with Russia to get some parts from Russia which are not critical in return for which Russia will extend Warranty. The warranty includes possible upgrades in future with ToT like engine upgrade to Al41F. This is a very good prospect as engines like Al41F if given to India will make India gain lot of technological expertise in making a 5th generation engine.

 

[armyofhind]

What onboard radar is installed on Su-30 MKI?

Phazotron BARS. Its a Passive phased array.

 

[Pulkit]

Seen C17s and C130j in chd but never a Su30

Yes I remember a friend called me about C17 landing in Chd we rushed so that we can see it take off. But bad luck we were too late....
I have seen LCA from far away when I was in bangalore and Dhruv .

 

[Sancho]

Company sources told Business Standard they are concerned about HAL’s dwindling order book, with the Sukhoi-30MKI production line at Nashik – its main cash cow – having almost completed delivery of the 222 fighters ordered by the Indian Air Force (IAF).

HAL produced, not including the MKIs from IRKUT.

 

[Pandeyji]

India is capable of making entire Su30 MKI as India has all critical technology. The ability to manufacture spares and some items like ejection seats already exists in India.

No. Even today the technology for some key components is held by Russia.

 

[Sancho]

Why concern they can re furbish the Su-30MKI with new systems that made in india rather than importing from russia.
This will keep the line operational.

The initial plan was, to use the MKI production line directly for the FGFA licence production. With FGFA not taking off and MMRCA 1.0 cancelled, HAL has no fighter production work, other than LCA, which makes this production line a waste of money. That's why the risk of laying of workers and cutting down or even closing that line is troublesome for HAL.

 

[Kshithij]

No. Even today the technology for some key components is held by Russia.

Which key component? As far as I see, the avionics is Indian (HAL-SAMTEL), engine is India-made. Airframe is a piece of cake and is not at all a critical technology. Su30 is a metallic plane (like F16, F15, F18) and is a purely 4th generation plane and the airframe is not a problem. India also made ejection seat for MiG21 and MiG27 in India and has the technology, though as of now India buys Su30 ejection seat from Russia. The radar is also Russian but India can always replace it with UTTAM when UTTAM comes to the fore.

I don't really see any key component in terms of critical technology that Russia holds to itself. Only contractual requirements and "low volume" components are needed to be imported from Russia.

 

[Pandeyji]

Which key component? As far as I see, the avionics is Indian (HAL-SAMTEL), engine is India-made. Airframe is a piece of cake and is not at all a critical technology. Su30 is a metallic plane (like F16, F15, F18) and is a purely 4th generation plane and the airframe is not a problem. India also made ejection seat for MiG21 and MiG27 in India and has the technology, though as of now India buys Su30 ejection seat from Russia. The radar is also Russian but India can always replace it with UTTAM when UTTAM comes to the fore.

I don't really see any key component in terms of critical technology that Russia holds to itself. Only contractual requirements and "low volume" components are needed to be imported from Russia.

Dude still many components come from Russia for which we do only screwdrivergiri.

 

[Kshithij]

Dude still many components come from Russia for which we do only screwdrivergiri.

Can you explain which components other than the ones I mentioned?

 

[Pandeyji]

Can you explain which components other than the ones I mentioned?

Whichever are covered in this or this

Seriously Kshitij sometimes many times you cross over from simple jingoism & become a full-blown nationalist like the Porkis & Chinks.

 

[tharun]

engine is India-made

Assembled in India...Blades are imported and lot of critical parts of engine too.

Airframe is a piece of cake and is not at all a critical technology.

No...it's not a piece of cake

Su30 is a metallic plane (like F16, F15, F18) and is a purely 4th generation plane and the airframe is not a problem

There is the problem..we need to import the metals that need to machined for Su-30 from russia as per contract.

The radar is also Russian but India can always replace it with UTTAM when UTTAM comes to the fore.

Nice joke buddy...
Russians won't allow it neither they won't share algorithms.

 

[tharun]

Whichever are covered in this or this

Seriously Kshitij sometimes many times you cross over from simple jingoism & become a full-blown nationalist like the Porkis & Chinks.

He is living in his own paradise...

 

[tharun]

The initial plan was, to use the MKI production line directly for the FGFA licence production. With FGFA not taking off and MMRCA 1.0 cancelled, HAL has no fighter production work, other than LCA, which makes this production line a waste of money. That's why the risk of laying of workers and cutting down or even closing that line is troublesome for HAL.

Why risking of layoff's..
Most of the plane is metallic,we can swap most of it with the composite..so we can reduce weight and radar signature

 

[Kshithij]

Whichever are covered in this or this

Seriously Kshitij sometimes many times you cross over from simple jingoism & become a full-blown nationalist like the Porkis & Chinks.

I think I have told you several times that India imports parts not because they are critical technology but because of contractual obligations. India can make its own spare parts by asking the MSME industry to make it. There is capability. But the problem is with warranty of Russia and potential upgrades like Super Sukhoi that Russia will be offering in future.

If you have any proper details of the lack of Su30 technology with India, please give source. Else, I am right

Assembled in India...Blades are imported and lot of critical parts of engine too.

No...it's not a piece of cake


There is the problem..we need to import the metals that need to machined for Su-30 from russia as per contract.
Nice joke buddy...
Russians won't allow it neither they won't share algorithms.

Engines are made in HAL Koraput from raw material stage. Who told you that we are importing blades? Why do you live in your own fancy world? We only import raw material as per contract, not the manufactured part. That is actually a loss for India but India unfortunately signed the pact when the metals like Titanium was not easily available in India.

Russia will not give the algorithm of radar but we already have our own algorithm for UTTAM. Radar is a plug and play device. We have upgraded the radar of MiG27, for example, with Israeli ones.

Why risking of layoff's..
Most of the plane is metallic,we can swap most of it with the composite..so we can reduce weight and radar signature

Do you realise that changing airframe will also change the centre of gravity and consequently entire aerodynamics? The change from metal and composite is not simply substitution.

 

[tharun]

Do you realise that changing airframe will also change the centre of gravity and consequently entire aerodynamics? The change from metal and composite is not simply substitution.

Have you heard of Mig-29k has most of the composites on the body to reduce weight and radar signature?

Russia will not give the algorithm of radar but we already have our own algorithm for UTTAM. Radar is a plug and play device. We have upgraded the radar of MiG27, for example, with Israeli ones.

By the way where we are at radar for tejas?
I mean Uttam. making a radar for the size of sukhoi we need help.

Engines are made in HAL Koraput from raw material stage. Who told you that we are importing blades? Why do you live in your own fancy world? We only import raw material as per contract, not the manufactured part. That is actually a loss for India but India unfortunately signed the pact when the metals like Titanium was not easily available in India.

 

[Kshithij]

Have you heard of Mig-29k has most of the composites on the body to reduce weight and radar signature?

MiG29K has composites in most of the body? This is new and I never knew it. It was a plane which started developing in 1980s and I am not sure why Russia made MiG29K use composites while not making Su30 use composites, despite Su30 being a plane developed much later.

By the way where we are at radar for tejas?
I mean Uttam. making a radar for the size of sukhoi we need help.

UTTAM is a modular radar which can be increased in size or decreased in size by reducing number of T/R modules. That is the beauty of AESA radars. Same applies with Israeli ELTA or French RBE2 radar which can be expanded or reduced in size. UTTAM can be used in Su30 as well as in Tapas drone with different range.

View attachment 24284

The SU30 deal in 2000 was when India had no aerospace industry. So, the Su30 manufacturing was done in a staggered manner whereby the initial phase was assembly of parts, followed by assembly of knock-down kits and then eventually indigenisation. India started to make fully indigenous engines only after 2010. If I am right, it was 2013 (I am not sure about this year).

Here is source:
https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...-50th-al31fp-engine-to-iaf/article9920705.ece

The 50th AL31FP engine manufactured from the raw material stage by the Sukhoi Engine Division of HAL (Koraput) has been handed over to the IAF in Delhi as part of the 70th year celebrations of the India Russia diplomatic relationship.

“The AL31FP engine powers the Su30 MKI and has been manufactured from the raw material stage by HAL. All the components, including heavy forgings, are manufactured at HAL,” said T Suvarna Raju, CMD.

He handed over documents related to the 50th Raw Material Phase Engine of the Su-30MKI to Air Marshal S.B. Deo, VCAS.

On the occasion, a coffee table book to commemorate 70 years of co-operation between HAL and Russian companies was also released by A. K. Gupta, Secretary (DP).

Speaking on the occasion Gupta said India has received whole-hearted support for the Russian platforms and such support was important for strengthening bilateral ties.

Also, the raw material like titanium or aluminum are not critical technology but just a way of paying Russia for license. You can't expect one-sided ToT fully free.

Also, first look at official website of HAL whereby they openly say that entire engine from raw material stage including disks (blisk) and blades are made in HAL. Here is the website. Look at all the tabs and the information there will help:
http://www.hal-india.com/Sukhoi Engine Division Koraput/M__140

 

[Pandeyji]

If you have any proper details of the lack of Su30 technology with India, please give source. Else, I am right

You should read the 2nd report that I have linked. Here is a direct quote from that report

"The Agreement signed by HAL with Russian OEMs are for long-term supply of spares and rendering technical assistance for five years and do not cover any technology transfer," Minister of State for Defence Subhash Bhamre told the Rajya Sabha in a written reply.

And let me remind you it is a written report submitted in Rajya Sabha. Which means that either the minister is giving false answers in the parliament (highly unlikely) or you are wrong.

Have your pick.