Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[aditya10r]

That is not average, that is for "grandfather" pilots who hog all the hours. Junior pilots are left begging for scraps.

How many hours do an average french pilot clocks and how much does an ace pilot clocks?????

 

[Armand2REP]

How many hours do an average french pilot clocks and how much does an ace pilot clocks?????

250-275 for the Rafale, it is less for the Mirage. The number of combat hours is among the highest in the world.

 

[Babloo Singh]

]

We need 42 Squad not 32.
There is a high possibility of another Tejas Assembly line once 1A is in picture by 2019 which might see a rise in numbers by 2025.
Su 30MKI can be ordered further.
Possibility of Mk2 by 2025 in manufacturing is also there so i see atleast 20 Squad of Tejas ordered.
We have PakFA, AMCA also floating in the same timeline around 2025-2030.
So if everything goes well we will have 42 squads by 2035 not any time soon.

The serious concern is that situation may be even worse, in few of in between years 2020-30.
And I believe we will have our Mig 29's flying till 2030, that will add 66 aircraft's ( 3 Sq) to the list.

However to keep IAF's strength uniformly strong building up to 2030, we should buy further 18-36 Rafael
For new orders we should do away with offset business to get lower cost & club the order with France giving us used Miraj 2000's. So if we order 18 more Rafael & some 40 used Miraj 2000's ( may be some more from tiwan)
we will be quickly able to boost current strength, which will give us flexibility to focus on Tejas & AMCA.
It will also keep the single engine dalal's & vested interests within Air force away for few years.
PS ( If we want it's possible to buy up to 80-100 Miraj 2000's from global markets)

Hal should add capacity to build more tejas or we should out source assembly to private players.
They can allocate Do - 228 capacity to Hawk & convert 16 hawk capacity to Tejas.

 

[Sancho]

250-275 for the Rafale, it is less for the Mirage. The number of combat hours is among the highest in the world.

Doesn't this suggest that more Mirage sorites and hours were flown than Rafale?

 

[Armand2REP]

Doesn't this suggest that more Mirage sorites and hours were flown than Rafale?

That is just for Syria.............

 

[gadeshi]

That is not average, that is for "grandfather" pilots who hog all the hours. Junior pilots are left begging for scraps.

This is an average pilots.
Flight school students fly less obviousely but they adjust 150 hours rate in training and conversion centers.

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[Sancho]

That is just for Syria.............

Which was the main deployment of Rafales last year or? And it clearly flew less than the Mirages.

 

[smestarz]

There is a report and the same was mentioned in an article which might tell you the mentality of IAF.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...mki-s-poor-serviceability-114102300006_1.html

This is an article about poor availablity of Su-30 MKI in IAF. and do note the points

MoD was informed about serious problems with IAF's management of spares. By standard norms, a fighter fleet consumes five per cent of its worth in consumables and spares each year. By that benchmark the Su-30MKI fleet, currently worth about Rs 69,000 crore - 193 Su-30MKIs at Rs 358 crore a fighter - should consume spares worth Rs 3,450 crore annually. Yet, IAF orders from HAL add up to less than Rs 50 crore, including ground handling equipment.

So, when the spares that you need to keep based on simple statistics is about Rs 3450 crore, and then IAF just orders spares of less than 50 crores,. how actually would the planes have spares? IAF is not ordering or maintaining the spares that it needs.

Also you said about other Air forces dont report it, But now there are several people who will mention it, there are their govt reports etc. But for a moment lets say you are correct and other countries dont report it,
BUT IAF is one and perhaps the only air force whose Mirage 2000 were grounded due to lack of spares. Now we know that the french pretty much report everything, and their planes are not grounded due to lack of spares. But in case of IAF. two planes of different makes and nationalities both have issue of spares, so with your wisdom do advice me how does that happen?

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...ge-2000-upgrade-progresses-despite-groundings

So, two planes of different countries and both have issues due to spares.. while other users of the same planes do not report any issues about being grounded due to lack of spares.

Waiting for your view

Just because they won't get reported, doesn't meant they don't exist. Remember Malaysia has deep trouble with their Mig 29s for maintenance and repairs and was not ready to buy more MKMs either.
India has a very free and open media, not to mention a resonably transparent reporting from the MoD as part of democratic procedures, which makes it easier to follow things, than in other countries. But I do consider it to be a problem from both sides, limited spare procurement on the Indian side, lack of spare supply from the Russian side as well. The earlier was dealt to an extend by former DM Parrikar and with the agreement on the performance based logistics, the Russian side will be held more accountable too. Not to mention that the more Russian systems get replaced by Indian once, the easier it gets to maintain and repair things for IAF, which is an ongoing process for the MKI as well.

 

[gadeshi]

Just because they won't get reported, doesn't meant they don't exist. Remember Malaysia has deep trouble with their Mig 29s for maintenance and repairs and was not ready to buy more MKMs either.
India has a very free and open media, not to mention a resonably transparent reporting from the MoD as part of democratic procedures, which makes it easier to follow things, than in other countries. But I do consider it to be a problem from both sides, limited spare procurement on the Indian side, lack of spare supply from the Russian side as well. The earlier was dealt to an extend by former DM Parrikar and with the agreement on the performance based logistics, the Russian side will be held more accountable too. Not to mention that the more Russian systems get replaced by Indian once, the easier it gets to maintain and repair things for IAF, which is an ongoing process for the MKI as well.

Not really.
VKS and Navy command gets fucked hard if any of them will appear during regular or sudden checkups, so they don't fuckup or hide anything.

As for Algerians, they've even rejected MiG-29SMT contract due to poor supply chain from MiG in its time, so I really doubt they will keep silence in this case.

As for IAF, I've heared much relevant and sane criticism here on IAF liasion command work, supply planning, incompetency, slowpoking and corruption.
Remove (or significant reduce) those flaws and you'll be fine.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[Sancho]

There is a report and the same was mentioned in an article which might tell you the mentality of IAF.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...mki-s-poor-serviceability-114102300006_1.html

This is an article about poor availablity of Su-30 MKI in IAF. and do note the points

MoD was informed about serious problems with IAF's management of spares. By standard norms, a fighter fleet consumes five per cent of its worth in consumables and spares each year. By that benchmark the Su-30MKI fleet, currently worth about Rs 69,000 crore - 193 Su-30MKIs at Rs 358 crore a fighter - should consume spares worth Rs 3,450 crore annually. Yet, IAF orders from HAL add up to less than Rs 50 crore, including ground handling equipment.

So, when the spares that you need to keep based on simple statistics is about Rs 3450 crore, and then IAF just orders spares of less than 50 crores,. how actually would the planes have spares? IAF is not ordering or maintaining the spares that it needs.

Also you said about other Air forces dont report it, But now there are several people who will mention it, there are their govt reports etc. But for a moment lets say you are correct and other countries dont report it,
BUT IAF is one and perhaps the only air force whose Mirage 2000 were grounded due to lack of spares. Now we know that the french pretty much report everything, and their planes are not grounded due to lack of spares. But in case of IAF. two planes of different makes and nationalities both have issue of spares, so with your wisdom do advice me how does that happen?

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...ge-2000-upgrade-progresses-despite-groundings

So, two planes of different countries and both have issues due to spares.. while other users of the same planes do not report any issues about being grounded due to lack of spares.

Waiting for your view

That's what I stated as well:

But I do consider it to be a problem from both sides, limited spare procurement on the Indian side, lack of spare supply from the Russian side as well.

It's a common problem for Air Forces all over the world, that availability and maintainability gets reduced, if governments cuts budgets. You can see it in Germany often and also in US forces, after Obama cut funds.
But we also know that spare supply and the quality of parts was always an issue for Russian fighters.

 

[Sancho]

Not really.
VKS and Navy command gets fucked hard if any of them will appear during regular or sudden checkups, so they don't fuckup or hide anything.

As for Algerians, they've even rejected MiG-29SMT contract due to poor supply chain from MiG in its time, so I really doubt they will keep silence in this case.

As for IAF, I've heared much relevant and sane criticism here on IAF liasion command work, supply planning, incompetency, slowpoking and corruption.
Remove (or significant reduce) those flaws and you'll be fine.

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You are talking about the customers now, but we talked about reports of issues in the media or public reports of the government. You won't find the same level of reporting in China, Algeria, or even in Russia, which leaves more room to divert problems.
I remember Indian reports about delays of the Zhuk Me production for the Mig upgrades, because of unpaid workers, which India had to settle by advanced payments.

 

[Armand2REP]

Which was the main deployment of Rafales last year or? And it clearly flew less than the Mirages.

It wasn't figures for just a year and it was only one theatre. Fewer Rafale were deployed to the Levant with almost similar hours to a greater number of Mirages. When divided the Rafale flew more hours per aircraft as they had to fly from Al Dafra which is a much longer flight than Jordan.

 

[Pulkit]

The serious concern is that situation may be even worse, in few of in between years 2020-30.

yes its a threat that it might get worse. In the absence of light aircraft all the load will be on Su which will further hamper our war readiness.

And I believe we will have our Mig 29's flying till 2030, that will add 66 aircraft's ( 3 Sq) to the list.

I think they can be upgraded which will add to there life span even post 2030

However to keep IAF's strength uniformly strong building up to 2030, we should buy further 18-36 Rafael
For new orders we should do away with offset business to get lower cost & club the order with France giving us used Miraj 2000's. So if we order 18 more Rafael & some 40 used Miraj 2000's ( may be some more from tiwan)
we will be quickly able to boost current strength, which will give us flexibility to focus on Tejas & AMCA.
It will also keep the single engine dalal's & vested interests within Air force away for few years.
PS ( If we want it's possible to buy up to 80-100 Miraj 2000's from global markets)

I am not in favour or any additional rafales or any second hand aircraft . Even the current govt will not go for it. If we do that Tejas and AMCA will be hampered because there willl no longer be urgency which will allow IAF DRDO HAL to play.

Hal should add capacity to build more tejas or we should out source assembly to private players.
They can allocate Do - 228 capacity to Hawk & convert 16 hawk capacity to Tejas.

To ramp up the numbers we can buy additional 2-3 squad of Su and Mig 29 off the shelf they will cost less and delivery will be faster. I agree tejas must get another production line. HAL must keep its promise on the timelines of MK1A.

 

[Pulkit]

As per wikipedia page, number of Su-30MKI ordered are 314.

I have the number of 272 with me. But whats the relevance here plz.I never quoted or stated anything related

 

[Sancho]

I have the number of 272 with me. But whats the relevance here plz.I never quoted or stated anything related

272 is the correct number for "orders", the total number of MKIs was meant to be 270 though, since 2 were added for lost fighters.

 

[tejas warrior]

Dynamatic Technologies Limited Contribution in Su30 MKI

Source : BR

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @IAF_MCC an:

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @scramble_nl an:
Recap:

Ambala, Hasimara IAF bases being readied for Rafale fighter jets
Oct 1, 2017

...The IAF is also carrying out infrastructure upgrade at its Hasimara base in West Bengal which will house the second squadron of the Rafale jets, the official said...

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/am...-for-rafale-jets/amp_articleshow/60899664.cms

 

[tejas warrior]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @IAF_MCC an:

Which location can this be ? Siachen glacier ?

 

[Sancho]

Sieh dir den Tweet von @scramble_nl an:
Recap:

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/am...-for-rafale-jets/amp_articleshow/60899664.cms

=>

Indian Air Force Su-30MKI Deploy to Hasimara

Due to ongoing tensions with China, the Indian Air Force has deployed a flight of at least four Su-30MKI Flanker multi-role fighter to Hasimara, the nearest Indian airbase to the recent Doklam standoff. Commercial imagery first captured the aircraft in October but it’s possible they may have arrived earlier. Imagery in August 2017 shows that workers covered the alert revetments on both ends of the runway preventing EO observation. Given regional basing, the aircraft likely arrived from neighboring Tezpur where a full squadron is reportedly deployed.

The advanced fighters join the IAF’s MIG-27ML/UPG at the strategic location. The ground attack aircraft are reportedly operated by No 22 Squadron. The overall number of MIG-27ML/UPG operated from the airbase recently decreased in 2016 when the previously co-located No 18 Squadron was decommissioned. The older non-operational airframes remain parked south of the runway. Domestic news in December reported that 22 Squadron would also be decommissioned. However, the swing-wing aircraft could still be viewed on the main parking apron and in nearby revetments in January.

Short on aircraft, Hasimara is expected to receive new deployments with discussions in the Indian press suggesting one of India’s Dassault Rafale squadrons. Unfortunately, the first batch of the French-built aircraft is not expected to arrive until 2019. Until the Rafale are inducted, the SU-30MKIrotations will likely continue in order to help close the gap of operational assets at the airbase. Imagery captured the Flanker still parked on the apron in December 2017.

In the meantime, imagery continues to show a heavy People’s Liberation Army (PLA) ground presence east of the Doka La border crossing and in areas that could reinforce troops in the disputed Bhutanese territory. Beyond ground forces, China also continues to maintain larger numbers of fighter aircraft at regional airbases near the standoff and has improved infrastructure at key airbases.

Bottom Line: The Su-30MKI rotations will likely remain a stop-gap until the border airbase is re-equipped with new aircraft.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2018/01/08/iaf-su-30mki-deploy-hasimara/