Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[sbm]

Interesting. I would have thought from Russian statements against ultra-low altitude targets range was less. ECM systems? Interesting again. Any link to reports on their use and deployment vs the cruise missiles? Thanks for the help.

 

[gadeshi]

Interesting. I would have thought from Russian statements against ultra-low altitude targets range was less. ECM systems? Interesting again. Any link to reports on their use and deployment vs the cruise missiles? Thanks for the help.

There were not less than 5 RGM-109E found by ISIS and SAA. None of them had SAM impact signs.
Any Russian base is a complete A2/AD node equipped with full set of defensive suits including heavy ECM systems.
Krasukha-2 and Krasukha-4 as well as Mi-8MTV-5 based Rychag-AV have been spotted in Khmeymym AB from the very beginning.
You don't need to hit CM directly to make it fall, but just burn its brain (Krasukha-4 can do this) or just jam its radio altimeter (Rychag-AV can do it).

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[captscooby81]

Any idea does Russian ever sold this type of EW system to India ..Who are all the countries who has this capability as of today .. i am sure USA,Russia and China might be the ones ..Who else have this EW technology ???

There were not less than 5 RGM-109E found by ISIS and SAA. None of them had SAM impact signs.
Any Russian base is a complete A2/AD node equipped with full set of defensive suits including heavy ECM systems.
Krasukha-2 and Krasukha-4 as well as Mi-8MTV-5 based Rychag-AV have been spotted in Khmeymym AB from the very beginning.
You don't need to hit CM directly to make it fall, but just burn its brain (Krasukha-4 can do this) or just jam its radio altimeter (Rychag-AV can do it).

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[gadeshi]

Any idea does Russian ever sold this type of EW system to India ..Who are all the countries who has this capability as of today .. i am sure USA,Russia and China might be the ones ..Who else have this EW technology ???

No, AFAIK, those systems are forbidden for export now.
Especially Krasukha-4 which is not a really ECM system but one of a weapons on new physical principals announced by Sergei Shoigu back in 2010.
Krasukha-4 is a high energy pulse MASER (microwave laser) which duty is to flood some narrow sector (+-20deg) with tremendous amounts of energy creating long-lasting non-nuclear EMP.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[captscooby81]

This sounds like the same thing which some conspiracy theorist are saying which brought down the Su-30MKI which went missing last week ..Well if the chinese had got this technology then its really a worrying cause for the IAF ... Hope our DRDO guys make some progress in creating a EW system like the Krasukha-2 or 4 someday in future ...

No, AFAIK, those systems are forbidden for export now.
Especially Krasukha-4 which is not a really ECM system but one of a weapons on new physical principals announced by Sergei Shoigu back in 2010.
Krasukha-4 is a high energy pulse MASER (microwave laser) which duty is to flood some narrow sector (+-20deg) with tremendous amounts of energy creating long-lasting non-nuclear EMP.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[sbm]

So come full circle, IAF needs to take EMP seriously. That said I know of the Krasukha-4. It was designed to jam AEW platforms. It has enormous potential but probably will not bring down an aircraft.

 

[gadeshi]

So come full circle, IAF needs to take EMP seriously. That said I know of the Krasukha-4. It was designed to jam AEW platforms. It has enormous potential but probably will not bring down an aircraft.

No, Krasukha-4 is created as UAVs/UCAVs and loitering decoys (like MALD/MALD-J) killer to clear the skies for SAMs saving their missiles for real targets.
So it's a really useful asset for S-400 suits

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[sbm]

Good information to know. Question if you might have an answer, how resistant is an aircraft like a Su-30 to EMP effects?

 

[gadeshi]

Good information to know. Question if you might have an answer, how resistant is an aircraft like a Su-30 to EMP effects?

I don't know this for sure but it's believed that new Western electronics is poorly protected against EMP and often use civil-grade components which have no EMP protection at all.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[sbm]

So would that mean that a Russian Su-30 is more vulnerable than a MiG-21?

 

[gadeshi]

So would that mean that a Russian Su-30 is more vulnerable than a MiG-21?

Russian Su-30SM doesn't contain any foreign electronics at all.
But MiG-21 electronic is old and dumb so may be you're right, but it's not critical level.
What about Su-30MKI?
Donno for sure.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[StealthFlanker]

I don't know this for sure but it's believed that new Western electronics is poorly protected against EMP and often use civil-grade components which have no EMP protection at all

That is nothing more than a myth,
For example, all US military aircraft are designed and tested to survive nuclear EMP (especially the one on aircraft carrier). There is a test site at NAS Patuxent River, which can simulate pulses up to 50 kVm, and is used by all three military services. It is part of electrical interference test also known as E3 or 'E cubed'
http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/i...tail&key=2CA04803-0F24-4A37-B07B-A2A04BB0296D

 

[gadeshi]

That is nothing more than a myth,
For example, all US military aircraft are designed and tested to survive nuclear EMP (especially the one on aircraft carrier). There is a test site at NAS Patuxent River, which can simulate pulses up to 50 kVm, and is used by all three military services. It is part of electrical interference test also known as E3 or 'E cubed'
http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/i...tail&key=2CA04803-0F24-4A37-B07B-A2A04BB0296D

Yes, but nuclear EMP lasts less than a milisecond, while Krasukha can last it for minutes.
I presume that US gear has much better EMP protection than Israeli or EU one.
Europeans often skip it in favour of cost reduction and even use civil graded components.
However, I don't know how even US systems will behave in long lasting EMP burst

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[sbm]

What what would this mean for a Su-30MKI? EMP resistance to a degree?

 

[StealthFlanker]

Yes, but nuclear EMP lasts less than a milisecond while Krasukha can last it for minutes.

E1 and E2 components of nuclear EMP last between nano to microseconds but E3 components can last several hundred seconds. I also don't think Krasukha-4 or any current nonnuclear weapon can perform EMP attack at long distance, Jamming yes, but an EMP attack requires ridiculously high power compared to jamming.Krasukha-4 EMP will still use electromagnetic wave, so will have to obey the same physics laws. The aperture, average power of Krasukha-4 is tiny compared to 64N6E, SBX-1 and even those will not have enough power density to simulate EMP effect at long range.

I presume that US gear has much better EMP protection than Israeli or EU one.
Europeans often skip it in favour of cost reduction and even use civil graded components.

I don't know all that much about EU system, but it is unlikely that they are much worse than US. EMP weapons are more or less focused on infrastructure rather than military equipment, the scariest part of nuclear EMP is the radius it can cover when denoted at high altitude.

What what would this mean for a Su-30MKI? EMP resistance to a degree?

Highly resistant to EMP

 

[gadeshi]

E1 and E2 components of nuclear EMP last between nano to microseconds but E3 components can last several hundred seconds. I also don't think Krasukha-4 or any current nonnuclear weapon can perform EMP attack at long distance, Jamming yes, but an EMP attack requires ridiculously high power compared to jamming.Krasukha-4 EMP will still use electromagnetic wave, so will have to obey the same physics laws. The aperture, average power of Krasukha-4 is tiny compared to 64N6E, SBX-1 and even those will not have enough power density to simulate EMP effect at long range.


I don't know all that much about EU system, but it is unlikely that they are much worse than US. EMP weapons are more or less focused on infrastructure rather than military equipment, the scariest part of nuclear EMP is the radius it can cover when denoted at high altitude.

Highly resistant to EMP

KRET claims that Krasukha-4 has a range up to 650km.
But yes, I doubt that it can hit an aircraft.
CMs, UAVs/UCAVs, decoys - yes, but aircraft is rather questionable.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[StealthFlanker]

KRET claims that Krasukha-4 has a range up to 650km.
But yes, I doubt that it can hit an aircraft.
CMs, UAVs/UCAVs, decoys - yes, but aircraft is rather questionable.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

That is completely understandable for jamming case. Because power density of radar reflection will deduce at much faster rate since it has to travel two way. Technically speaking, for self protection jamming, the further it is from enemy radar, the easier it would be to jam it. For support jamming, it is depending on where is your target located but you get the drift.

 

[sbm]

E1 and E2 components of nuclear EMP last between nano to microseconds but E3 components can last several hundred seconds. I also don't think Krasukha-4 or any current nonnuclear weapon can perform EMP attack at long distance, Jamming yes, but an EMP attack requires ridiculously high power compared to jamming.Krasukha-4 EMP will still use electromagnetic wave, so will have to obey the same physics laws. The aperture, average power of Krasukha-4 is tiny compared to 64N6E, SBX-1 and even those will not have enough power density to simulate EMP effect at long range.


I don't know all that much about EU system, but it is unlikely that they are much worse than US. EMP weapons are more or less focused on infrastructure rather than military equipment, the scariest part of nuclear EMP is the radius it can cover when denoted at high altitude.

Highly resistant to EMP

Ok Stealth Flanker so Su-30MKI is highly resistant to EMP. Would that apply to Mirage 2000s too? What about the theory that old aircraft like MiG-21s were more resistant?

 

[Chinmoy]

Ok Stealth Flanker so Su-30MKI is highly resistant to EMP. Would that apply to Mirage 2000s too? What about the theory that old aircraft like MiG-21s were more resistant?

When India acquired Mirage in 80's it was one way journey for it on any nuclear mission. It couldnot have stayed alive in case of an EMP blast. But later on during upgradation, it was engineered to withstand EMP from the nuclear blast. Same is true for Su-30 as well as Rafale.

 

[sbm]

When India acquired Mirage in 80's it was one way journey for it on any nuclear mission. It couldnot have stayed alive in case of an EMP blast. But later on during upgradation, it was engineered to withstand EMP from the nuclear blast. Same is true for Su-30 as well as Rafale.

Would it be the case that at least half of the Sukhois & Mirages are now EMP protected?