Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[Neil]

The MKIs will definitely get mid-life upgrade; there is no doubt about that but the point is what kind of upgrade we are looking for. There was a concept called "Super Sukhoi" based on which it was thought that the MKI could be equipped with technologies and engines derived from front-line Su-35 & PAK-FA/Su 57. As you have indicated, Zhuk AESA and more reliable Al 41 FP engines were proposed along with assortment of changes in avionics, RAM coatings, and sensors. But the problem is that this concept is doing rounds for more than half a decade yet there is no significant progress on these two important components i.e. Engine and RADAR proposed for Super sukhoi from Russian side.

Absolutely. The problem with everything above is they were all derivative of a single programme- PFAK FA. Neither the programme went as per our requirement nor is the technology mature enough. And the result is that Indian air capabilities are suffering. We are left with close to 250+ aircrafts that is unable to keep up with changes in the region and provide a sustained capabilities edge to IAF.

Hence, my inclination towards west. And the only country open to integrating its state of the art AESA on a Russian platform will be Israel.
The benefits are enormous. Israel AESA is one the best in its class in the world, source code wont be issue which only expands su30s ability to integrate more weapons profile particularly western and it will create commonality between LCA and su30s streamlining our logistics of weapons inventory.

Latest, what I heard is that the Russia has proposed a joint working group with India to explore up gradation of MKI fleet in line with the up-gradation program for their own Su-30SM fleet. Quite a fair proposal as it doesn't intend on pulling a 5th Gen capability out of a 4th Gen aircraft; what they wanted incremental improvements aimed at better serviceability (improvement on engines) and survivability (sensor improvements). Like India, Russia also faces similar conditions w.r.t the defense expenditure (Russian GDP is very much affected by commodity prices) and it doesn't have enormous resource like the US to fund massive programs. Therefore, it's more reasonable to adopt high end up-gradation for a few squadrons which will act as spear of attack; for rest of the fleet, incremental up gradation should be followed to improve serviceability and most importantly equipping it better BVR AAMs. With the coming of 4+/5 gen AMCA, Rafales, MWF in numbers , probably by 2035, I only foresee the MKI role in IAF as a "Bomb Truck".

View attachment 50758

Agreed, but It already is a bomb truck. In the future su30s should evolve as a fighter with long range detection, tracking and attacking aircrafts. Eg. Its huge RCS doesn't allow it to be air defence penetrating strike aircraft, but its large size does allow it to carry some of the biggest missiles in IAF inventory to carry out strikes from stand off distances.

It need to evolve similar to F15. A bomb truck with a profile as supporting fighter used for ECM/ECCM and long range stand off capability for larger mission goals.

Put in context: If mirages are conducting deep penetrating strikes, su30 are providing ELINT AND SIGINT support, acting like a mini JSTAR and can carry long range AAMs. Just an example.

This discussion however begs a follow-up question; As the HAL is building MKI right from raw material as it claims, why doesn't it try to develop a test-bed aircraft for testing upgradation technologies into it? where it can try to integrate any AESA radar in combination with avionics proposed for 5th gen program like AMCA. Nashik assembly line which soon to become idle could explore tinkering existing MKIs for further improvements.

HAL is a screw driver agency. Its classic slave company. It will do as much as it is asked for. Nothing more but certainly less.

 

[assassin162]

Guys I had posted a question that despite IAF having 272 Sukhois, why only 12 squadrons have bee formed? What is the mathematics behind this? I would like some informed answer.....

 

[IndianHawk]

Guys I had posted a question that despite IAF having 272 Sukhois, why only 12 squadrons have bee formed? What is the mathematics behind this? I would like some informed answer.....

We don't have 272 as of today. We build 272 but 10 have crashed over years leaving 262 in operation.

We probably have 12 sq of 18 each== 216 . And 40 su30 are raising 2 new squadrons with bramhos air capability.

5-6 su30 may be at TACDE which is for tactics learning.

 

[assassin162]

We don't have 272 as of today. We build 272 but 10 have crashed over years leaving 262 in operation.

We probably have 12 sq of 18 each== 216 . And 40 su30 are raising 2 new squadrons with bramhos air capability.

5-6 su30 may be at TACDE which is for tactics learning.

But what I heard is that there will be Brahmos capable sukhois distributed across each squadron. There will no only Brahmos squadrons.
Then we are also buying 12 more Sukhoi's and I am getting no indication whether more squadrons will come and where in upcoming years even when production is in last leg.

 

[Akula]

The MKIs will definitely get mid-life upgrade; there is no doubt about that but the point is what kind of upgrade we are looking for. There was a concept called "Super Sukhoi" based on which it was thought that the MKI could be equipped with technologies and engines derived from front-line Su-35 & PAK-FA/Su 57. As you have indicated, Zhuk AESA and more reliable Al 41 FP engines were proposed along with assortment of changes in avionics, RAM coatings, and sensors. But the problem is that this concept is doing rounds for more than half a decade yet there is no significant progress on these two important components i.e. Engine and RADAR proposed for Super sukhoi from Russian side.

Latest, what I heard is that the Russia has proposed a joint working group with India to explore up gradation of MKI fleet in line with the up-gradation program for their own Su-30SM fleet. Quite a fair proposal as it doesn't intend on pulling a 5th Gen capability out of a 4th Gen aircraft; what they wanted incremental improvements aimed at better serviceability (improvement on engines) and survivability (sensor improvements). Like India, Russia also faces similar conditions w.r.t the defense expenditure (Russian GDP is very much affected by commodity prices) and it doesn't have enormous resource like the US to fund massive programs. Therefore, it's more reasonable to adopt high end up-gradation for a few squadrons which will act as spear of attack; for rest of the fleet, incremental up gradation should be followed to improve serviceability and most importantly equipping it better BVR AAMs. With the coming of 4+/5 gen AMCA, Rafales, MWF in numbers , probably by 2035, I only foresee the MKI role in IAF as a "Bomb Truck".

View attachment 50758

This discussion however begs a follow-up question; As the HAL is building MKI right from raw material as it claims, why doesn't it try to develop a test-bed aircraft for testing upgradation technologies into it? where it can try to integrate any AESA radar in combination with avionics proposed for 5th gen program like AMCA. Nashik assembly line which soon to become idle could explore tinkering existing MKIs for further improvements.

HAL is going to buy 2 Su-30mki for testing new technologies.

 

[Shaitan]

Su 30 MKI Spice PGM

 

[IndianHawk]

But what I heard is that there will be Brahmos capable sukhois distributed across each squadron. There will no only Brahmos squadrons.
Then we are also buying 12 more Sukhoi's and I am getting no indication whether more squadrons will come and where in upcoming years even when production is in last leg.

Those 12 are to replace attrition losses of 10 +2 for Hal.

 

[assassin162]

Those 12 are to replace attrition losses of 10 +2 for Hal.

I know, I just wrote that as you counted sukhois only at 262 due to attrition. Hence I meant those attrition ones are also being covered yet I see no indications of any squadrons coming up.

 

[LondonParisTokyo]

Please privatize all public defense agencies.

 

[WolfPack86]

India to seek Russia's help for urgent supply of spares for fighter aircraft fleet, submarines, tanks
Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, who is on a three-day visit to Russia, will seek support for an urgent and emergency supply of spares required by India for its Russian origin fighter aircraft fleet along with the main battle tanks of the Indian Army.

"The defence minister will request these spares and equipment to be supplied through the air route so that we can use them, if required, in the current situation on the Ladakh front," top government sources told Aajtak and India Today.

India has been preparing its troops and machinery for any eventualities in case the one-and-a-half-month long standoff between Indian and Chinese troops on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Eastern Ladakh escalates.

The spares required by the Indian side are meant for the Sukhoi-30MKi fighter jets and the T-90 main battle tanks which form the mainstay of the fighting formations of the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army. The spares were to be supplied using the sea route and now India wants them to be supplied using the aircraft.

India has close ties with the Russians and has even sent its contingent in an IL-76 aircraft to take part in their victory day parade on June 24. The India side is confident to get the Russian commitment on this issue as it needs the equipment urgently for enhancing its operational readiness across the forces.

India is also seeking an early supply date for the S-400 systems from Russian as they have been delayed due to payment issues.

India to seek Russia's help for urgent supply of spares for fighter aircraft fleet, submarines, tanks

The spares required by the Indian side are meant for the Sukhoi-30MKi fighter jets and the T-90 main battle tanks which form the mainstay of the fighting formations of the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[darshan978]

Please privatize all public defense agencies.

kal ho jayega bhai

 

[rohit b3]

Still they wont deploy Tejas on the frontlines, even for as basic as CAP roles if not frontline combat. Is Bhaduria really just good at trash talk or something actually wrong with the jet?
No news coming out asking HAL to deliver more FOC Tejas on war footing. Or atleast deploy the 2 FOC models on the frontline for basic CAP or Recon roles..

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Still they wont deploy Tejas on the frontlines, even for as basic as CAP roles if not frontline combat. Is Bhaduria really just good at trash talk or something actually wrong with the jet?
No news coming out asking HAL to deliver more FOC Tejas on war footing. Or atleast deploy the 2 FOC models on the frontline for basic CAP or Recon roles..

 

[Akula]

Still they wont deploy Tejas on the frontlines, even for as basic as CAP roles if not frontline combat. Is Bhaduria really just good at trash talk or something actually wrong with the jet?
No news coming out asking HAL to deliver more FOC Tejas on war footing. Or atleast deploy the 2 FOC models on the frontline for basic CAP or Recon roles..

Only full FOC standard Tejas mk1 squadron will be deployed in forward bases.

 

[patriots]

Still they wont deploy Tejas on the frontlines, even for as basic as CAP roles if not frontline combat. Is Bhaduria really just good at trash talk or something actually wrong with the jet?
No news coming out asking HAL to deliver more FOC Tejas on war footing. Or atleast deploy the 2 FOC models on the frontline for basic CAP or Recon roles..

Once I had seen Tejas at a forward base .....in satelite photo........may be testing

 

[Cheetah007]

Okay, I am naive but shouldn't the talk be on advanced BVR missiles for Su-30. We have more than 250 Su-30 which are enough. India can talk about the advanced BVRs rather adding more numbers.

 

[scatterStorm]

Once I had seen Tejas at a forward base .....in satelite photo........may be testing

Now is the best time to test these, remember USAF used F4 Phantoms as soon as they got out of production line in Vietnam war.

 

[ashdoc]

Now is the best time to test these, remember USAF used F4 Phantoms as soon as they got out of production line in Vietnam war.

And changing engines is too expensive, for it means changing more than 500 engines as each aircraft has 2 engines. We should concentrate on getting longer range Russian AAMS rather than non Russian which Russians will be reluctant to fit on their aircraft. We should literally pay for development of such AAMs .

 

[IndianHawk]

And changing engines is too expensive, for it means changing more than 500 engines as each aircraft has 2 engines. We should concentrate on getting longer range Russian AAMS rather than non Russian which Russians will be reluctant to fit on their aircraft. We should literally pay for development of such AAMs .

We have already bought new batches of r77-1. And rvv BD . Not to mention our su30 now have Astra mk1 which outranges most of chini missiles barring pl15 which is not yet ready either.

And if we are facing war we will integrate derby ER with su30 whether Russia likes it or not.

 

[Karthi]

Which Missile is this , Nirbhay?? Does anyone have a better picture