Story behind F-117 shoot down

[gambit]

I always find strange that USA are so embarrassed that their "invisible" plane was taken down by old SAM (from 1961) that they always come up with the stories to undermine that success.

We are not 'embarrassed' one bit. The official position is that no aircraft is 'invisible' and it has been popular media who used that word. If anything, it is the Serbs who are truly embarrassed that for all the bragging, only two aircrafts were lost. That is not an air defense combat record to boast about.

But USA are NOT embarrassed at all to attack small country like Serbia with 1000 planes (from 30 countries)!

NATO.

Or to occupy Afghanistan with today 50 countries !
If they are such "Super" Power why don't they do it alone?

We defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan with only Special Forces and indigenous Afghan opposition forces. It is NATO today that is in Afghanistan. We were dominant in Desert Storm and pretty much alone in Iraq the second time around. You need some serious history lessons.

It is like when one brings 15 friends to beat up little kid !

Kids do not have AK-47s, tanks or air defense missiles.

And than they even have trouble to succeed !
Where is all that courage and dignity gone from "Super Power"?

What trouble? It is US troops who are in Iraq and Afghanistan, not the other way around.

 

[AJSINGH]

NATO.


We defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan with only Special Forces and indigenous Afghan opposition forces. It is NATO today that is in Afghanistan. We were dominant in Desert Storm and pretty much alone in Iraq the second time around. You need some serious history lessons.


Kids do not have AK-47s, tanks or air defense missiles.


What trouble? It is US troops who are in Iraq and Afghanistan, not the other way around.

and USA should be proud that it defeated taliban in afghanistan ,i mean what did yiu think that taliban is some real adversary to us forces , you people are not alone in iraq ,england is there with you ,US was not alone in serbian attack too ,french were also involved

"Kids do not have Ak47,tanks,air defence " true to some extent but have you seen what US forces have,in comparison it makes them kids ,US forces comes with B-2 bombers ( to bomb obsolute air defence in Iraq) and M1abhrams to kill obsolute T-72 ( in iraq and even more obsolute in afghanistan )
and remember NATO is controlled by USA ,do not deny that

 

[jakojako777]

We are not 'embarrassed' one bit. The official position is that no aircraft is 'invisible' and it has been popular media who used that word. If anything, it is the Serbs who are truly embarrassed that for all the bragging, only two aircrafts were lost. That is not an air defense combat record to boast about.


NATO.


We defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan with only Special Forces and indigenous Afghan opposition forces. It is NATO today that is in Afghanistan. We were dominant in Desert Storm and pretty much alone in Iraq the second time around. You need some serious history lessons.


Kids do not have AK-47s, tanks or air defense missiles.


What trouble? It is US troops who are in Iraq and Afghanistan, not the other way around.

I think that it is about time that you and me AGREE that we DISAGREE!

There is no point running in circles our conversation be cause we don't even agree on basic facts so it is conversation deaf !

You don't even try to understand what I write but just look for "angle to counter attack" like this is some kind of battle.

Should I answer your comments that are basically twisting all my comments and continue like that forever?

Honestly I don't think so...

It is contra productive and useless after all.


BTW I will still stick with my conviction that
Attack of almost 30 countries.... attacking tiny Serbia is COWARDLY act certainly not worthy so called "Super Power"!
(NOT all NATO few countries refused to participate!)

The same goes for Afghanistan!

And I even though my people have suffered lot from hand of Jihad maniacs
(brought in Bosnia by USA and UK)

I am as Christian with all my heart with local Afghan Muslims who defend their freedom, their country from foreign bloodsuckers !

Sooner or later you will be defeated there and your "Super Power" will
be drained and amount to "No Power at all" at the end !


Sooner or later like all falling empires you will end up in the same flames of destruction that you've been spreading all over the world over decades...

And your end is already visible on the horizon...

Good riddance !
Here... there is already China and India waiting in the wing to take role of world leaders!

The era of "white" people domination is coming to the end...

And USA with this Muslim bashing (for oil) can only bring another World War
between Christians and Muslims (what those blood thirsty Wall Street bankers are hopping for)

I just hope when that starts that Russia will NOT be on your side but stay neutral !

 

[gambit]

I think that it is about time that you and me AGREE that we DISAGREE!

There is no point running in circles our conversation be cause we don't even agree on basic facts so it is conversation deaf !

You don't even try to understand what I write but just look for "angle to counter attack" like this is some kind of battle.

Should I answer your comments that are basically twisting all my comments and continue like that forever?

Honestly I don't think so...

It is contra productive and useless after all.

It is irrelevant whether you and I agree or disagree. This is where you utterly fail to understand the nature of a public debate. Facts do not lie but people do and often people reduce the numbers of facts to deceive their audience. When the readers read post #16 on the previous page, they will see that I possess far more facts than you do and that I have a much better understanding of those facts. The truth, deduced from far more facts that I presented than you have, is that the Serbs did not successfully tracked the F-117 and shoot it down. There was no technical wizardry involved. Just plain luck. The phrase 'spray and pray' is a figure of speech. It does not mean literally a spray of missiles. It mean the shooter just aimed in a general direction and fire away, hoping at least one round would find a target. That is what happened. All you have are pictures without context. I have credible technical information that anyone can do his own independent research.

BTW I will still stick with my conviction that
Attack of almost 30 countries.... attacking tiny Serbia is COWARDLY act certainly not worthy so called "Super Power"!
(NOT all NATO few countries refused to participate!)

Civil wars seldom remains inside borders. Refugees will flood neighboring countries. What would you have them do? Turn them back to the war where they would be killed? Like it or not, those countries acted in their own self-interests. Blame it on the Europeans.

The same goes for Afghanistan!

Yeah...As if you really care about the Afghans. Spare everyone your crocodile tears.

 

[jakojako777]

It is irrelevant whether you and I agree or disagree. This is where you utterly fail to understand the nature of a public debate. Facts do not lie but people do and often people reduce the numbers of facts to deceive their audience. When the readers read post #16 on the previous page, they will see that I possess far more facts than you do and that I have a much better understanding of those facts. The truth, deduced from far more facts that I presented than you have, is that the Serbs did not successfully tracked the F-117 and shoot it down. There was no technical wizardry involved. Just plain luck. The phrase 'spray and pray' is a figure of speech. It does not mean literally a spray of missiles. It mean the shooter just aimed in a general direction and fire away, hoping at least one round would find a target. That is what happened. All you have are pictures without context. I have credible technical information that anyone can do his own independent research.


Civil wars seldom remains inside borders. Refugees will flood neighboring countries. What would you have them do? Turn them back to the war where they would be killed? Like it or not, those countries acted in their own self-interests. Blame it on the Europeans.


Yeah...As if you really care about the Afghans. Spare everyone your crocodile tears.

I possess far more facts than you do and that I have a much better understanding of those facts.
It is not about possessing far more facts or being more expert it is about the fact that you are NOT telling the truth !
on previous page you can find youtube video where pilot
talks about what happened and mentions SECOND missile !
So it was ONLY 2 missiles !


Civil wars seldom remains inside borders

It is U.S. that was DIRECTLY behind that civil war by TRAINING KLA (that was terrorist organization on U.S. list but U.S. have had took it away from list be cause they needed KLA for starting war!)


Yeah...As if you really care about the Afghans. Spare everyone your crocodile tears

Serbs have suffered lot from Jihad maniacs brought to Bosnia by U.S. CIA and UK MI6 but still Muslim fight for FREEDOM of their country against U.S. and NATO hoodlums & war criminals is another story!


There was NO weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!
There was NO genocide in Kosovo !
U.S. is NOT looking for Bin Laden in Afghanistan!

Those were just excuses to attack sovereign countries and build military bases !
I really find HORRIBLE that U.S.& NATO continue killing innocent people now in Af-Pak war!
And you can try to be ironic as much as you want U.S. is just bunch of CRIMINALS!
U.S. is the biggest TERRORIST country of all !

There are already 1.4 million dead Muslim people in Iraq and there are thousands children among them!
Why do you think I shouldn't be finding that shocking?!?

You have BOMBED Serbia 3 months on the pretext of the conflict that was SPONSORED by CIA who trained KLA and gave them weapons!

But when U.S. kills hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan you don't deserve to be bombed?!?



.

 

[jakojako777]

It is irrelevant whether you and I agree or disagree. This is where you utterly fail to understand the nature of a public debate. Facts do not lie but people do and often people reduce the numbers of facts to deceive their audience. When the readers read post #16 on the previous page, they will see that I possess far more facts than you do and that I have a much better understanding of those facts. The truth, deduced from far more facts that I presented than you have, is that the Serbs did not successfully tracked the F-117 and shoot it down. There was no technical wizardry involved. Just plain luck. The phrase 'spray and pray' is a figure of speech. It does not mean literally a spray of missiles. It mean the shooter just aimed in a general direction and fire away, hoping at least one round would find a target. That is what happened. All you have are pictures without context. I have credible technical information that anyone can do his own independent research.


Civil wars seldom remains inside borders. Refugees will flood neighboring countries. What would you have them do? Turn them back to the war where they would be killed? Like it or not, those countries acted in their own self-interests. Blame it on the Europeans.


Yeah...As if you really care about the Afghans. Spare everyone your crocodile tears.

Hera read about your Bosnian and Albanian Muslim ALLAYS and their terrorist activities! That is fruit of CIA cooperation with Jihad in Balkans!


According to IPS, new CIA chief Porter Goss visited Sarajevo and Tirana last month, in the words of British military and defense analyst Paul Beaver, "to express grave concerns of Washington because of [these governments'] cooperation with radical Islamic groups." According to Beaver, "a part of the investigation dealing with the London blasts is aimed at links between radical Islamists in Bosnia and Kosovo with international terrorist groups" in cahoots with powerful Albanian mafia clans. A Bosnian Serb news source added that Goss handed the government a list of 900 names of potential al-Qaeda-linked individuals.


ARTICLE
Europe's New Terror Profile and the State of Play in the Balkans - by Christopher Deliso

.

 

[notinlove]

Double post?? where did the discussion go?

 

[gisse]

If i am not mistaking one battery have 2 launchers with 4 missiles. So that is 8 missiles. What are chances to hit something on 5000m with wave of 8 missiles even if they explode on proper hight?

Serbian army got order to hold fire and wait. Main reason for this was possibility of land invasion where all air-defense forces where needed for defense of Serbian ground forces from air attacks.

Personally think that Serbian air defense done best what they could. They didn't jump in front of gun as Iraqi did and died.

 

[ace009]

Here is the discussion of strategy pages about the F-17 shootdown - it is more informative than the partisan hash going on here -

Air Defense: How to Take Down an F-117

Long story short, it was a combination of detailed tactical effort by Col Zoltan, some sheer luck and USAF complacency that led to the shootdown of the F-117 by ground SA-3.
The F-117 was a nightmare to maintain due to old technologies and manufacturing processes. Together with it's perceived vulnerability against well-researched tactical efforts, the F-117 was retired a few years ahead of it's time.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Going more off-topic...

J20! wrote

I remember many people attributing the J20 to the F117 that got shot down in Serbia,

That is news to me. that a F117 was shot down in Serbia, but Google and Wiki are our friends:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk

I remember the USAF bombing the Chinese embassy (by mistake?)

Bill Clinton has been very much criticized in the US over that campaign.

 

[nimo_cn]

J20! wrote

That is news to me. that a F117 was shot down in Serbia, but Google and Wiki are our friends:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk

I remember the USAF bombing the Chinese embassy (by mistake?)

Bill Clinton has been very much criticized in the US over that campaign.

I am a little confused. According to wiki, F117 was shot down in Serbia.

By the way, thanks for refreshing my memory about the embassy incident. Five American missiles mistakenly but precisely hit Chinese embassy and killed 3 Chinese citizens.

Holy democracy of America! The guardian of human right.

 

[Austin]

I am a little confused. According to wiki, F117 was shot down in Serbia.

By the way, thanks for refreshing my memory about the embassy incident. Five American missiles mistakenly but precisely hit Chinese embassy and killed 3 Chinese citizens.

Holy democracy of America! The guardian of human right.

US shot down those bombs in the embassy because they believed that Chinese were gathering intelligence and/or were helping the serbs using embassy as cover , so they put some bombs in to prove a point saying we know what you are doing.

Ofcourse they made up some story to cover their true intentions but Chinese got the message.

 

[p2prada]

Americans have bombed schools in Iraq as well. The embassy bombing may have been a mistake. Americans can use other forms to communicate which are more effective.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

US shot down those bombs in the embassy because they believed that Chinese were gathering intelligence and/or were helping the serbs using embassy as cover , so they put some bombs in to prove a point saying we know what you are doing.

Ofcourse they made up some story to cover their true intentions but Chinese got the message.

That is a serious allegation. Did the Chinese allege it was not an accident?

 

[Austin]

That is a serious allegation. Did the Chinese allege it was not an accident?

Its an intelligence war and its not just a bad luck that the US bombs would just strike the Chinese Embassy when there were other around in those areas.

The US paid for the human loss to the Chinese and US gave a very acceptable publicly acceptable reason on what went wrong , the Chinese ofcourse didnt agree it and finally they just decided to pay money for the human loss and other damages.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

I just watched this program. Very interesting.

Showtime Official Site :: Schedules :: Program Details :: Stealth: Flying Invisible

The quest for the ultimate undetectable "ghost" aircraft, from the U-2 to the F-117 Nighthawk; an account of the only successful shooting down of a stealth fighter, from both the pilot and the soldier who fired the shots.