This was a much awaited upgrade. SVDs could serve another decade with such upgrades as it solves almost all the shortcomings of it like no rails, bipods, pso scopes and non adjustable stocks.
A heavy nitride barrel could have been added. This was a End life upgrade and a emergency requirement fir DMR support.
Did they got any orders for SVD upgrade or just demo? I remeber you posting some Ak upgrade couple of months back by some bangalore firm. Whats the update on thst too
Trial orders on the AK upgrade have been placed. These are for the forward units in the alley and the North east. The quantum is a few hundred numbers. They will pickup in due course.
Thoroughly agreed to bud.The General Manager of Rifle Factory Ishapore, DK Mahapatra, has stated that the per-unit price of the 'R2' 7.62x51mm rifle comes to about Rs. 80,000 which is $ 1,121. Statement here: Army orders US assault rifles even as RFI offers its own version at a cheaper rate - Times of India
In the same article, it is said that 'sources' indicate the SIG price was around Rs. 1 lakh per.
Now, we have sources explicitly stating that the SIG 716G2 Patrol was quoted $ 990 per piece (or Rs. 70,618) in the tender for 72,400 rifles (Jane's article here: https://www.janes.com/article/86149...procurement-of-72-400-sig-sauer-rifles-for-ia). However we also have sources saying that the total deal value was Rs. 700 crores, which indeed does come to about 96,000 per rifle or $ ~1350.
Some observations:
Although details remain sketchy, it is oft stated by varying sources that the deal also includes "accessories", which might or might not mean:
Forward Vertical Grips
Muzzle Attachments
Extra Magpul PMAG Magazines
Back-Up Iron Sights (BUIS)
and most importantly - optics.
In the civilian market, a typical 20-round PMAG costs $20, BUIS (from Magpul) about $40, a vertical grip also about $20, even if we consider all these were offered at half-price due to bidding, that's still 40 dollars extra - per rifle (1 extra mag per rifle). Those alone add about $3 million to the deal value.
If we assume we are also buying at least a red dot sight per rifle, also from SIG, and assume the same half-price quote, that adds about $11 million, at about $150 per piece.
If we were buying a 3x magnifier instead, and apply same half-price, it would add $17 million. Which would bring us to about $90 million total, or about 640 crores (if we assume $72 million for rifles alone).
If any of those accessories were indeed included, and the quoted prices were above half-price (or a more expensive option chosen rather than what I calculated), then easily that could constitute a $99 million (or 700 crore) deal to include accessories, while keeping the per unit price of the rifles themselves at $ 990. That's if we assume the prices for accessories will be separate from the price of the rifle.
If not anything else, extra magazines and 1 set of BUIS per rifle are an absolute MUST.
This is ofcourse, only if the actual quote itself wasn't 1 lakh per.
NOTES:
It is my sincere belief that if the piss-poor quality & workmanship of OFB is what one gets on a rifle that is supposedly only about 16k cheaper, then I would say NO THANK YOU. On the other hand, if the price for SIG716 was indeed only 70k and OFB is actually asking Rs. 10k MORE than SIG for an assault rifle in the same calibre, I would say that is a PURE AND BLATANT RIP-OFF.
Additional Notes:
Unless the text wasn't later edited by the writer, the TOI article is also the first confirmation from an Indian authority (RFI GM) that the rifle to be manufactured at OFB Korwa (Amethi) will indeed be AK-203, not 103 -
.... "Over time, we have also developed the Ghatak 7.62 x 39 mm assault rifle. This is of the same quality as the AK-203 that the Ministry of Defence is planning to build at Ordnance Factory Korwa in collaboration with Russia. The only difference is the Picatinny Rail (for fitting of accessories) that the Ghaatak doesn't have. That can always be fixed. " The GM added. .....
My comment: You ought to have incorporated such basic things as long-length 12'o clock rail into the design from Day 1 (instead of a handguard rail). It's not like dust covers with P rails were only invented after you started building Ghaatak. Such gross negligence and being utterly unaware of even relatively low-tech advancements made in firearms industry over 20 years ago shows your quality of work and workmanship. Nuff said.
@binayak95 @rkhanna @mohitbhagat @Unknowncommando 2 @abingdonboy
Price comes down with bulk orders. Sure the OFB rifle price would have come down as well with assured bulk orders.The General Manager of Rifle Factory Ishapore, DK Mahapatra, has stated that the per-unit price of the 'R2' 7.62x51mm rifle comes to about Rs. 80,000 which is $ 1,121. Statement here: Army orders US assault rifles even as RFI offers its own version at a cheaper rate - Times of India
In the same article, it is said that 'sources' indicate the SIG price was around Rs. 1 lakh per.
Now, we have sources explicitly stating that the SIG 716G2 Patrol was quoted $ 990 per piece (or Rs. 70,618) in the tender for 72,400 rifles (Jane's article here: https://www.janes.com/article/86149...procurement-of-72-400-sig-sauer-rifles-for-ia). However we also have sources saying that the total deal value was Rs. 700 crores, which indeed does come to about 96,000 per rifle or $ ~1350.
Some observations:
Although details remain sketchy, it is oft stated by varying sources that the deal also includes "accessories", which might or might not mean:
Forward Vertical Grips
Muzzle Attachments
Extra Magpul PMAG Magazines
Back-Up Iron Sights (BUIS)
and most importantly - optics.
In the civilian market, a typical 20-round PMAG costs $20, BUIS (from Magpul) about $40, a vertical grip also about $20, even if we consider all these were offered at half-price due to bidding, that's still 40 dollars extra - per rifle (1 extra mag per rifle). Those alone add about $3 million to the deal value.
If we assume we are also buying at least a red dot sight per rifle, also from SIG, and assume the same half-price quote, that adds about $11 million, at about $150 per piece.
If we were buying a 3x magnifier instead, and apply same half-price, it would add $17 million. Which would bring us to about $90 million total, or about 640 crores (if we assume $72 million for rifles alone).
If any of those accessories were indeed included, and the quoted prices were above half-price (or a more expensive option chosen rather than what I calculated), then easily that could constitute a $99 million (or 700 crore) deal to include accessories, while keeping the per unit price of the rifles themselves at $ 990. That's if we assume the prices for accessories will be separate from the price of the rifle.
If not anything else, extra magazines and 1 set of BUIS per rifle are an absolute MUST.
This is ofcourse, only if the actual quote itself wasn't 1 lakh per.
NOTES:
It is my sincere belief that if the piss-poor quality & workmanship of OFB is what one gets on a rifle that is supposedly only about 16k cheaper, then I would say NO THANK YOU. On the other hand, if the price for SIG716 was indeed only 70k and OFB is actually asking Rs. 10k MORE than SIG for an assault rifle in the same calibre, I would say that is a PURE AND BLATANT RIP-OFF.
Additional Notes:
Unless the text wasn't later edited by the writer, the TOI article is also the first confirmation from an Indian authority (RFI GM) that the rifle to be manufactured at OFB Korwa (Amethi) will indeed be AK-203, not 103 -
.... "Over time, we have also developed the Ghatak 7.62 x 39 mm assault rifle. This is of the same quality as the AK-203 that the Ministry of Defence is planning to build at Ordnance Factory Korwa in collaboration with Russia. The only difference is the Picatinny Rail (for fitting of accessories) that the Ghaatak doesn't have. That can always be fixed. " The GM added. .....
My comment: You ought to have incorporated such basic things as long-length 12'o clock rail into the design from Day 1 (instead of a handguard rail). It's not like dust covers with P rails were only invented after you started building Ghaatak. Such gross negligence and being utterly unaware of even relatively low-tech advancements made in firearms industry over 20 years ago shows your quality of work and workmanship. Nuff said.
@binayak95 @rkhanna @mohitbhagat @Unknowncommando 2 @abingdonboy
Same applies to SIG or any foreign gun.
25k was back in early 2000s. 2004-5 perhaps.Same applies to SIG or any foreign gun.
The SIG 716G2 retails for over $2,100 MSRP in the US civilian market. For a bulk order of 72,400 rifles, they could bring it down to $990 per gun.
For the same order, OFB is asking for over $1100.
But it doesn't matter, because we know that you won't be getting a gun that is WORTH 1100 dollars. A well-proven, tried and tested design like AR-10 platform can be assembled by buying individual parts for less than 700 dollars in civilian market.
For the kind of Quality Assurance & Quality-Control you get from OFB, their offer does not make any sense unless their price is below 500 dollars.
You can buy an AR-10 from Palmetto State Armory (PSA) for 600 bucks, and PSA's quality is easily superior. Not to mention higher labour costs and material costs in US, and the fact that PSA is a small private company.
And that 600 $ is for retail market. If you place bulk orders of several thousand, they can possibly offer for less than $400.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/ar-10/pa-10-complete-rifles.html
In comparison OFB is a huuuuge board. All the resources it has, cheap labour, lackluster QA/QC, a lot of cutting corners...and they want to tell us they'll take 1100+ dollars for a poorly-made AK conversion to 7.62x51mm?
They can keep it.
The R2 rifle is trash...if not because of its performance or quality (I'm not in a position to comment on that, I can only talk about Ordnance Factories in general), then simply because of how much they are asking for it. Total hogwash and rip-off.
@binayak95 @rkhanna @mohitbhagat Does anyone have prices for current production batches of INSAS rifles? As far as I know, it used to be some Rs. 25k (not sure if later batches or earlier production), or about $350, which is pretty reasonable for a 5.56 rifle of okayish quality. The US Army buys their Remington & FN-made M4A1s (which are of superb quality & reliability) for about $650.
If that 25k figure is right, then I don't know what is making OFB think they can demand 80k for R2 rifle. I wonder if they took a look at the quoted prices in the FTP bid and figured they can demand similar prices and force Army to buy it...all because they learnt how to anodize the frame in 20 years
Rs. 55,000
Seriously...??
Why was products with QC issues not returned back in the first place?$770 per piece for INSAS...with all its crappy QC issues....
The price quoted by OFB officials was for a single rifle. The same price for SIG was much higher. Because of assured bulk orders SIG could offer lower prices. OFB could do the same and the OFB rifles would be much cheaper than SIG.The General Manager of Rifle Factory Ishapore, DK Mahapatra, has stated that the per-unit price of the 'R2' 7.62x51mm rifle comes to about Rs. 80,000 which is $ 1,121. Statement here: Army orders US assault rifles even as RFI offers its own version at a cheaper rate - Times of India
In the same article, it is said that 'sources' indicate the SIG price was around Rs. 1 lakh per.
Now, we have sources explicitly stating that the SIG 716G2 Patrol was quoted $ 990 per piece (or Rs. 70,618) in the tender for 72,400 rifles (Jane's article here: https://www.janes.com/article/86149...procurement-of-72-400-sig-sauer-rifles-for-ia). However we also have sources saying that the total deal value was Rs. 700 crores, which indeed does come to about 96,000 per rifle or $ ~1350.
Some observations:
Although details remain sketchy, it is oft stated by varying sources that the deal also includes "accessories", which might or might not mean:
Forward Vertical Grips
Muzzle Attachments
Extra Magpul PMAG Magazines
Back-Up Iron Sights (BUIS)
and most importantly - optics.
In the civilian market, a typical 20-round PMAG costs $20, BUIS (from Magpul) about $40, a vertical grip also about $20, even if we consider all these were offered at half-price due to bidding, that's still 40 dollars extra - per rifle (1 extra mag per rifle). Those alone add about $3 million to the deal value.
If we assume we are also buying at least a red dot sight per rifle, also from SIG, and assume the same half-price quote, that adds about $11 million, at about $150 per piece.
If we were buying a 3x magnifier instead, and apply same half-price, it would add $17 million. Which would bring us to about $90 million total, or about 640 crores (if we assume $72 million for rifles alone).
If any of those accessories were indeed included, and the quoted prices were above half-price (or a more expensive option chosen rather than what I calculated), then easily that could constitute a $99 million (or 700 crore) deal to include accessories, while keeping the per unit price of the rifles themselves at $ 990. That's if we assume the prices for accessories will be separate from the price of the rifle.
If not anything else, extra magazines and 1 set of BUIS per rifle are an absolute MUST.
This is ofcourse, only if the actual quote itself wasn't 1 lakh per.
NOTES:
It is my sincere belief that if the piss-poor quality & workmanship of OFB is what one gets on a rifle that is supposedly only about 16k cheaper, then I would say NO THANK YOU. On the other hand, if the price for SIG716 was indeed only 70k and OFB is actually asking Rs. 10k MORE than SIG for an assault rifle in the same calibre, I would say that is a PURE AND BLATANT RIP-OFF.
Additional Notes:
Unless the text wasn't later edited by the writer, the TOI article is also the first confirmation from an Indian authority (RFI GM) that the rifle to be manufactured at OFB Korwa (Amethi) will indeed be AK-203, not 103 -
.... "Over time, we have also developed the Ghatak 7.62 x 39 mm assault rifle. This is of the same quality as the AK-203 that the Ministry of Defence is planning to build at Ordnance Factory Korwa in collaboration with Russia. The only difference is the Picatinny Rail (for fitting of accessories) that the Ghaatak doesn't have. That can always be fixed. " The GM added. .....
My comment: You ought to have incorporated such basic things as long-length 12'o clock rail into the design from Day 1 (instead of a handguard rail). It's not like dust covers with P rails were only invented after you started building Ghaatak. Such gross negligence and being utterly unaware of even relatively low-tech advancements made in firearms industry over 20 years ago shows your quality of work and workmanship. Nuff said.
@binayak95 @rkhanna @mohitbhagat @Unknowncommando 2 @abingdonboy
OFB's quoted price is probably the right price even for bulk order; becaue OFB does not sell its product in retail stores!
I believe it's cheaper to buy materials in bulk from whomever it's sourced. But I don't have any numbers here to come up at actual prices.
Then why do they cost more in OFB? Old machinery?
Why doesn't Ghatak have full rails & adjustable stock "from Day 1"? ...did the army not bother to ask for those?
Its performance was superior to Galil apparently.
| Thread starter | Similar threads | Forum | Replies | Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
India identifying requirement for small arms fire detection system | Indian Army | 6 | |
| W | Russia to supply air defence system and small arms to Pakistan | Pakistan | 3 | |
|
Gun memes | General Multimedia | 83 | |
|
Israeli-Indian JV to make small arms in private sector | Defence & Strategy | 15 |
