Small arms and Light Weapons

[Lonewarrior]

well they are gonna move for aftermarket mods like fab at the end of the day
why not go for them from the start and not waste money on crap they are not gonna use

(1) Get AK-203 offered with folding-collapsible stock; reject it. (2) Order AK-203 with old folding stock. (3) Then order FAB kits over a 20 year period to do some upgrades here and there.

Look, you may definitely feel like "wakanda room temperature IQ move is this? Even a 13yo gamer who buys mods for his gun can better manage his coins"

But the problem is you're only having a surface level look, dive deeper. Imagine the rojgaar it'll generate. If we had directly ordered those from Kalashnikov Concern then we would have got just one kickback. But now we got kickback from Kalashnikov, we siphoned funds from GoI by quoting a higher-spec rifle and buying a lower one. And not just present, imagine the future rojgaar. How random commands would issue separate tenders to upgrade their AK and will receive kickbacks to choose a certain competitor.
See the bigger picture

 

[MisraZ]

How to lose a contract to FN SCAR in 60 seconds...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[kaboom]

Look at this Beauty

 

[ManhattanProject]

How to lose a contract to FN SCAR in 60 seconds...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

They lost to FN over a technicality, i think they failed to provide a blank firing device or something stupid like that. Its actually has a very good reputation in the US, if we had asked robinson to manufacture here, they would have done it for half the price quoted by the russians.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

They lost to FN over a technicality, i think they failed to provide a blank firing device or something stupid like that. Its actually has a very good reputation in the US, if we had asked robinson to manufacture here, they would have done it for half the price quoted by the russians.

They didn't lose heart. They made many iterative updates to the gun over 10 years and now it's a rock solid reliable weapon.

 

[Johny_Baba]

They lost to FN over a technicality, i think they failed to provide a blank firing device or something stupid like that. Its actually has a very good reputation in the US, if we had asked robinson to manufacture here, they would have done it for half the price quoted by the russians.

Yes it was one of finalist among that SCAR program where current FN SCAR won when this was booted out because it did not have Blank Firing Adapter available for it when the final trials happened; owner of the company, Alex Robinson, used to mention that US SOCOM put requirement that the rifle should be supporting new underbarrel grenade launcher with computerized sights (later labelled as ELGM) which wasted about two and half month of time for Robinson Arms to adjust their design to make it suitable to a grenade launcher - and in all these hurry they *ahem* 'forgot' to deliver a BFA to 5.56mm version on time ALTHOUGH the barrel had same muzzle device as M16 and that same pattern of BFA that goes on existing M16s-M4s was suitable to it - but over non-delivery of BFA it was rejected from competition and FN's design became SCAR

another competitor that quickly got rejected from SCAR trials, was some "Cobb" design which was more or less...this...

basically a three-section receiver AR-10/15 fork with replaceable magazine well and upper section (and upper section internals like bolts and/or bolt carriers) for different calibres, Cobb manufactured some prototypes in,

5.56 NATO, Cobb MCR100

7.62 NATO, Cobb MCR200

Cobb MCR300 in .30-06 and Cobb MCR400 in .300 Winchester Magnum

Cobb MCR400 in .338 Lapua Magnum, notice side-mounted magazine well on upper receiver

but it didn't stop here, Cobb promised lots of configurations for these MCR100 to MCR400 in different calibres such as;

MCR100 -> 9×19mm; 45ACP; .223 Remington/5.56×45mm; 7.62×39mm; .50 Beowulf; 6.5 Grendel

MCR200 -> .308/7.62×51mm; .243 Winchester; .22-250; .220 Swift; 6mm Remington; 250-3000 Savage; 300 Savage, 7mm-08 Remington

MCR300 -> .30-06; 8×57mm; 240 Weatherby Magnum; 257 Roberts; 25-06 Remington; 270 Winchester; 7×57mm Mauser; 284 Winchester; 280 Rem　；　.35 Whelen; 6.5×284; 6.5×55 Swedish Mauser; 6×284mm; 260 Remington; 270 Winchester Short Magnum; 7×64mm BR

MCR400 -> 257 Weatherby Magnum; 264 Winchester Magnum; 270 Weatherby Magnum; 7mm Remington Magnum; 7mm Weatherby Magnum; 300 H&H Magnum; 300 Winchester Magnum; 300 Rem； 300 Weatherby Magnum; 308 Norma Magnum; 338 Winchester Magnum; 338 LAPUA Magnum; 338 Remington Ultra Magnum; 340 Weatherby Magnum; 350 Remington Magnum; 35&H Magnum; 8mm Remington Magnum; 378 Weatherby Magnum; 416 RIGBY; 416 Remington Magnum; 416 Taylor; 458 Winchester Magnum

yeh Cobb toh pura jhakeera de rha thaa ek hi line ke under...

needlessly to say, it did not succeed and mostly remained to prototype levels; but we can surely say these efforts did not completely go in vein as in future or in our current time we are already seeing AR pattern rifles in diverse calibres, mostly covering these calibres mentioned here

there was also some bolt-action rifle prototype in heavy calibres, i think .50 BMG by this Cobb

source -> https://defensereview.com/cobb-scar-candidatemcr-prototype-weapons-at-shot-show-2005/

another noteworthy SCAR competitor was;
XM8 SCAR prototype

basically a fork of G36 // XM-8 design with promises for multi-calibre options in future and a new handguards + receiver design with picatiny rails on top

 

[kaboom]

why does this gun kick so much . Is it an issue with the gun/ammunition or due to the smooth surface.

 

[Tactical Doge]

why does this gun kick so much . Is it an issue with the gun/ammunition or due to the smooth surface.

you can see the Bipod drifting in the gravel
that being said I have seen some bolt action smoothly operate


*they should have added footage of the follow up shots as well

 

[Corvus Splendens]

why does this gun kick so much . Is it an issue with the gun/ammunition or due to the smooth surface.

Needs a muzzle break.

 

[Love Charger]

Needs a muzzle break.

Muzzle break is a very happy name.

 

[Johny_Baba]

why does this gun kick so much . Is it an issue with the gun/ammunition or due to the smooth surface.

judging from that massive magazine w.r.t. receiver size, it seems to me it's .338 lapua magnum (or as called otherwise 8.6x70mm)

here is a pic and vdo of OFB's 7.62 NATO sniper rifle, in video you can see it being fired and recoil on it is in expected ranges even without a muzzle device

OFB 7.62x51mm sniper

here are some other pics of OFB 7.62 NATO sniper in police service, you can clearly see magazine on that variant completely flush with the receiver//stock and doesn't peek out from bottom

while on .338 variant when magazine is inserted its bottom is out at bottom

of course i think these stocks are ridiculous and it should be given an AWM pattern chassey but whatever, at least OFB did something.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[Johny_Baba]

with QBZ-191 chinese have found their desired "one platform to rule them all" tier weapon, something that we wanted to achieve here with INSAS because goddamn it it's called "SMALL ARMS SYSTEM" to start with...
it's got best of both worlds, AR and AK in its design, and they are now fielding it en masse, from carbine to standard issue assault rifle to DMR, basically covering almost all roles for a squad level requirements.
rest for pistols, SMGs and all they have got their own designs serving just fine.

We should accept it that we are simply left behind than them; even in a simple thing like small arms. Despite having entire cadre of gazeted babudumbs 'INDIAN ORDNANCE FACTORIES SERVICES' ones and entire DRDO and ARDE and all we are so pathetically behind it's appaling. Whatever promising things we are seeing - almost always remain under perpetual trials or get limited orders unless some push happens from the top; case in hand JVPC which is getting orders in thousands from various police departments and so while army is still fielding those WW2 era Sterling "Carbines" and all - which often takes lives of soldiers by misfires.

Sad, pathetic, tiring state of indian small arms scenario.

 

[Lonewarrior]

why does this gun kick so much . Is it an issue with the gun/ammunition or due to the smooth surface.

> It's shooting a hi-powered round; 338 LM so the recoil should obviously be higher
> There's no muzzle brake
> This polymer gun should be relatively lightweight as compared to other 338 Lapua Magnum rifles made up of aluminium
> He's not using his bodyweight properly; there's less ground contact than should be
> It's using normal bipod legs on hard surface; there's isn't anything for them to sink into
> We don't have many people who are well experienced in using 338 LM; the highest power they would theoretically accustomed to would be good ol .30-06

So when you combine all these you see the end result in the video

 

[ALBY]

with QBZ-191 chinese have found their desired "one platform to rule them all" tier weapon, something that we wanted to achieve here with INSAS because goddamn it it's called "SMALL ARMS SYSTEM" to start with...
it's got best of both worlds, AR and AK in its design, and they are now fielding it en masse, from carbine to standard issue assault rifle to DMR, basically covering almost all roles for a squad level requirements.
rest for pistols, SMGs and all they have got their own designs serving just fine.

We should accept it that we are simply left behind than them; even in a simple thing like small arms. Despite having entire cadre of gazeted babudumbs 'INDIAN ORDNANCE FACTORIES SERVICES' ones and entire DRDO and ARDE and all we are so pathetically behind it's appaling. Whatever promising things we are seeing - almost always remain under perpetual trials or get limited orders unless some push happens from the top; case in hand JVPC which is getting orders in thousands from various police departments and so while army is still fielding those WW2 era Sterling "Carbines" and all - which often takes lives of soldiers by misfires.

Sad, pathetic, tiring state of indian small arms scenario.

There is no need for pistol round smgs in army except for some niche roles which are currently performed by mp-7s and uzis.

 

[Johny_Baba]

There is no need for pistol round smgs in army except for some niche roles which are currently performed by mp-7s and uzis.

itne hi नीच roles hai toh uske liye bhi kyoun impoortbaazi karte hai, they easily could've cut down Sterling down to say 170-180mm barrel something like this and be done with that

this is chilian FAMAE PAF, modified from Sterling, a machine pistol version

or going even down in terms of length with straight Sterling Mk6 or Mk7 Machine Pistols with this

but no, they need better guns for those pistol calibres and it's evident from the plethora of 9mm pistols and SMGs (or "carbines" whatever) we have here with various Uzis (mini and micro), MP-9, MP5-K, MX-4 and even some Bulgarian Arsenal Shipka that they goddamn need and want better weapons BUT THEY SIMPLY GO IMPORT SUBSTITUTION OR EMERGENCY PROCUREMENT INSTEAD OF MAKING-DO WITH WHATEVER WE HAVE IN HAND AUR FIR BAHANABAAZI KARTE HAI KI "नीच roles"

 

[Alamarathan]

I know this video kinda feels like straight up product plug, but one thing that caught my eye is that the bolt extension has a telescopic (ish) piston head,which absorbs initial jolt of the gas pressure,so it offers a smooth recoil compared with othetr 762nato rifles.

But the way the receiver was screwed with the top cover is bit worrying, but if it is improved upon,it could be a better dmr rifle.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I know this video kinda feels like straight up product plug, but one thing that caught my eye is that the bolt extension has a telescopic (ish) piston head,which absorbs initial jolt of the gas pressure,so it offers a smooth recoil compared with othetr 762nato rifles.

There's nothing unique or revolutionary about that "telescopic piston" that you're mentioning. It's basically what Tavors have been doing since past three decades
Perun x16/17 BCG :

Tavor/X-95 BCG :

As for accuracy due to reduction in vibration of moving parts, it should be somewhere in between a quasi-DI AR and a short-stroke gas piston rifle. And that's the only little pro it has. As for con, it would get very very hot and that too in a place that's just above the chamber and below the scope mount. Also remember it's going to "contain" the hot gases for the whole duration instead of venting out like a typical piston gun with gas block - cylinder mounted far back. Another issue would be the "dumping" of hot gases, as soon as the piston would clear the cylinder hot gases would come back inside the gun.

But the way the receiver was screwed with the top cover is bit worrying, but if it is improved upon,it could be a better dmr rifle.

That's what they do so that it can use aftermarket parts.

 

[Alamarathan]

There's nothing unique or revolutionary

I didn't say it was neither unique nor revolutionary...that rifle piqued my interest,so i shared it here,thats all