Small arms and Light Weapons

When picking a gun, what would your primary consideration be?


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Vishalreddy3

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Its a clusterfuck in our inventory, we end up buying too much variety in suppliers as well as ammunition, I mean why don’t buy a 5.56x45mm NATO Kalashnikov like Bulgarian AR-M1 if not AK-19 to reduce logistics issues.
View attachment 65177
Well, I think price issue, since CAR 816 was the cheapest bidder, and 816 being designed by the guy who modelled HK416, is a steal of a deal, hence the reason I guess IA went for it.
 

FalconSlayers

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Well, I think price issue, since CAR 816 was the cheapest bidder, and 816 being designed by the guy who modelled HK416, is a steal of a deal, hence the reason I guess IA went for it.
It is made by former Employees who were H&K and Made the HK416 then they joined Sig Sauer and made the SiG-516 and then they joined Caracal and the first condition to them was to make the CAR-816 better than both HK416 and SiG-516 hence the CAR-816.

1. We get the best AR platform in world (even Germany selected the CAR-816 as its new service rifle to replace the G36, the Haenel MK556 selected by German Army is a licensed manufactured variant of the CAR-816 means it is something top notch as well, I know the procurement is cancelled due to heavy lobbying by H&K).

2. We get it for a less price compared to other AR platforms.
3. Officially will increasy military cooperation and bilateral relations with UAE.
4. They are ready to manufacture here so maybe we can produce more than 4 Lakh of these and export as PM Modi also stated that India will even export the AK-203s made in India to other countries hence we can do the same for CAR-816, the only thing I can’t understand that why we didn’t go for CAR-817 for battle rifle instead of SIG-716i?

5. Will help porkistanis stay away from Arabs, man we are smartly making all countries our friends Like we made France, NATO, QUAD, Warsaw Pact countries, we have good relations with everyone because of business and also weapons export.
 

Killbot

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When are we going to order CAR-816 Carbines? When the confrontation becomes a skirmish?
They aren't gonna be ordered. There will be one more round of final 'competitive trails'. Under the AtMaNiRbHAr BhArAT meme this time. Naturally, guns will be overpriced. And there will be an overpriced L1 bid. AK 203 redux after that.

In all seriousness, first 93k might be ordered in a few months, but other 3 Lakh will probably follow above path. Or maybe all of them will follow the same path.
 

Killbot

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It is made by former Employees who were H&K and Made the HK416 then they joined Sig Sauer and made the SiG-516 and then they joined Caracal and the first condition to them was to make the CAR-816 better than both HK416 and SiG-516 hence the CAR-816.

1. We get the best AR platform in world (even Germany selected the CAR-816 as its new service rifle to replace the G36, the Haenel MK556 selected by German Army is a licensed manufactured variant of the CAR-816 means it is something top notch as well, I know the procurement is cancelled due to heavy lobbying by H&K).

2. We get it for a less price compared to other AR platforms.
3. Officially will increasy military cooperation and bilateral relations with UAE.
4. They are ready to manufacture here so maybe we can produce more than 4 Lakh of these and export as PM Modi also stated that India will even export the AK-203s made in India to other countries hence we can do the same for CAR-816, the only thing I can’t understand that why we didn’t go for CAR-817 for battle rifle instead of SIG-716i?

5. Will help porkistanis stay away from Arabs, man we are smartly making all countries our friends Like we made France, NATO, QUAD, Warsaw Pact countries, we have good relations with everyone because of business and also weapons export.
Car 817 is an analogue of HK 417 or Sig 716 patrol. Piston operated. Car 816 was more expensive then 716 because of above. You can imagine why smaller, lighter and cheaper Sig was selected. Sig 516 was more expensive than 716i for same reason.

But, Caracal is gonna manufacture in India in all likelihood, as we are going to be their biggest customer by far with the 4 lakh order, possibly. So it is kind of a bittersweet situation now.
 

SUPERPOWER

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If Indian Army can adopt AK-203 (actually AK-103M,that's what we're getting) then i don't see much issue with such upgrades to INSAS

View attachment 63798

And this upgrade was done by FAB Mods guys of Israel,providing a hinged railed top cover, side folding buttstock with adjustable cheek piece, their pattern of tactical pistol grip and railed handguards etc

Oh and yes of course, FAB style 5.56mm Magazine that they seem to have specifically made for us (straight from their 7.62x39mm magazine named ULTIMAG) as i don't happen to see it anywhere else, not on their website or other palce on Internet

pics of FAB Defense Ultimag from where they may have made this 5.56mm magazine for INSAS, me think

Isse achha benchod laati lekar jayee....Rifle modify bhi karna nahi aata....fucking INSAS ...chutiyapa ki bhi hadd hoti hai yaar..
 

Johny_Baba

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Isse achha benchod laati lekar jayee....Rifle modify bhi karna nahi aata....fucking INSAS ...chutiyapa ki bhi hadd hoti hai yaar..
Pray tell than what's your idea of modding INSAS ? keeping its barebones common...
 

Killbot

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Pray tell than what's your idea of modding INSAS ? keeping its barebones common...
Better locking mechanism for top cover, top rail, full length M-LOK handguard (free floated off the gas block), ambi safety selector, better trigger group, left side charging handle (with modified dust cover). I wouldn't touch the mag release because INSAS would be a good DMR, and we don't need a trigger finger mag release for DMR. I've geard that it is very accurate, owing to the 18.5" barrel and 1 in 12" twist rate. So maybe add an adjustable gas block and a better muzzle device that allows for mounting QD suppressor.
And change the buttstock, with adjustable cheek pad and length.

As for attachments, I'd put an Low Power Variable Optic, say Leopold 1-6x45 or Vortex Razor Gen 2 or something like that. And an IR pointer, say PEQ 15. And Bipod. Adjustable gas block allows for a suppressor, so put one from the Surefire SOCOM series. And add backup flip up iron sights.

My dream INSAS, folks..
 

Johny_Baba

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Better locking mechanism for top cover, top rail, full length M-LOK handguard (free floated off the gas block), ambi safety selector, better trigger group, left side charging handle (with modified dust cover). I wouldn't touch the mag release because INSAS would be a good DMR, and we don't need a trigger finger mag release for DMR. I've geard that it is very accurate, owing to the 18.5" barrel and 1 in 12" twist rate. So maybe add an adjustable gas block and a better muzzle device that allows for mounting QD suppressor.
And change the buttstock, with adjustable cheek pad and length.

As for attachments, I'd put an Low Power Variable Optic, say Leopold 1-6x45 or Vortex Razor Gen 2 or something like that. And an IR pointer, say PEQ 15. And Bipod. Adjustable gas block allows for a suppressor, so put one from the Surefire SOCOM series. And add backup flip up iron sights.

My dream INSAS, folks..
> Better locking mechanism for top cover, top rail,
Here top cover provided by FAB is directly taken from their AK one which has got their own style of locking tab on it that has that rotary lock to fix it firmly,so what's the point ?

1604421389641.png


Just add a hinge to it,fix it on INSAS and it's done.

>full length M-LOK handguard (free floated off the gas block)
M-Lok is possible but our armed forces aren't using that pattern of accessory mounting much except from SF perhaps so it's redundant mostly,
though you can still observe holes for mounting additional picatiny rail section on both sides of the handguard for mounting things on 3 and 9 o'clock positions,like a torch maybe

and Free - Floating handguard isn't possible because of the way handguards are fixed on it using older AK style locking tab for handguards that's used here,but fortunately upper handguard section is fixed on lower handguard here unlike older style one where it was loosly coupled with gas tube using a simple metallic leaf spring like thingy

>ambi safety selector, better trigger group,
No arguments regarding ambi fire selector but again as i said in my post on OFB's new 5.56mm Carbine it's doable using fixing a fire selector piece on other side
As for trigger group,you gotta replace whole thing with new one and that's not furniture upgrade anymore,but yeah doable it's just AK style trigger group.

>left side charging handle (with modified dust cover)
It IS left side charging handle duhh and it's non-reciprocating type so it doesn't need dust cover.

> owing to the 18.5" barrel and 1 in 12" twist rate
INSAS' twist ratio isn't 1 in 12'' but tighter than that,roughly 1 turn in 7.8" (1 in 200mm, RH turn,6 grooves)

>maybe add an adjustable gas block
already has it,but two setting ones,inspired from FNC with Normal and Adverse (or Fouled) settings, though it just has slight effect on its cyclic rate.

>a better muzzle device that allows for mounting QD suppressor
possible,just remove flash hider here that's screwed-on and replace with compatible muzzle device
assuming it's same FNC style flash hider with same 9/16-24 LH thread pitch we could use FNC//FAL style muzzle devices on it

>buttstock, with adjustable cheek pad and length
cheek adjustment ready done by FAB style buttstock here,maybe not adjustable length but can be done using other of their buttstocks available for AK style rifles that use M4 adapter

1604423318063.png



^Overall i am quite satisfied with whatever is offered by FAB which has proven that it's perfectly possible to at least fix some of the aspects of INSAS' lack of modularity with aftermarket furniture kits, and with some more investment we could do further upgrades on its internals

My personal suggestion is to completely ditch that stamped recceiver on INSAS that's ridden with tonnes of rivets on it to fix internal components (mainly bolt carrier rails inside both sides) and replace it with machined receiver of Excalibur Mk.1C altogether - then perform all the required upgrades on that new receiver-ed gun.Would be much cheaper than getting new replacement INSASes or other rifles as majority of issues on INSAS are related to its shoddy constructed receiver that's causing many issues.
 
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Killbot

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> Better locking mechanism for top cover, top rail,
Here top cover provided by FAB is directly taken from their AK one which has got their own style of locking tab on it that has that rotary lock to fix it firmly,so what's the point ?

View attachment 65192

Just add a hinge to it,fix it on INSAS and it's done.

>full length M-LOK handguard (free floated off the gas block)
M-Lok is possible but our armed forces aren't using that pattern of accessory mounting much except from SF perhaps so it's redundant mostly,
though you can still observe holes for mounting additional picatiny rail section on both sides of the handguard for mounting things on 3 and 9 o'clock positions,like a torch maybe

and Free - Floating handguard isn't possible because of the way handguards are fixed on it using older AK style locking tab for handguards that's used here,but fortunately upper handguard section is fixed on lower handguard here unlike older style one where it was loosly coupled with gas tube using a simple metallic leaf spring like thingy

>ambi safety selector, better trigger group,
No arguments regarding ambi fire selector but again as i said in my post on OFB's new 5.56mm Carbine it's doable using fixing a fire selector piece on other side
As for trigger group,you gotta replace whole thing with new one and that's not furniture upgrade anymore,but yeah doable it's just AK style trigger group.

>left side charging handle (with modified dust cover)
It IS left side charging handle duhh and it's non-reciprocating type so it doesn't need dust cover.

> owing to the 18.5" barrel and 1 in 12" twist rate
INSAS's twist ratio isn't 1 in 12'' but tighter than that,roughly 1 turn in 7.8" (1 in 200mm, RH turn,6 grooves)

>maybe add an adjustable gas block
already has it,but two setting ones,inspired from FNC with Normal and Adverse (or Fouled) setting, though it just has slight effect on its cyclic rate.

>a better muzzle device that allows for mounting QD suppressor
possible,just remove flash hider here that's screwed-on and replace with compatible muzzle device
assuming it's same FNC style flash hider with same 9/16-24 LH thread pitch we could use FNC//FAL style muzzle devices on it

>buttstock, with adjustable cheek pad and length
cheek adjustment ready done by FAB style buttstock here,maybe not adjustable length but can be done using other of their buttstocks available for AK style rifles that uses M4 adapter

View attachment 65199


^Overall i am quite satisfied with whatever is offered by FAB which has proven that it's perfectly possible to at least fix some of the aspects of INSAS' lack of modularity with aftermarket furniture kits, and with some more investment we could do further upgrades on its internals

My personal suggestion is to completely ditch that stamped recceiver on INSAS that's ridden with tonnes of rivets on it to fix internal components (mainly bolt carrier rails inside both sides) and replace it with machined receiver of Excalibur Mk.1C altogether - then perform all the required upgrades on that new receiver-ed gun.Would be much cheaper than getting new replacement INSASes or other rifles as majority of issues on INSAS are related to its shoddy constructed receiver that's causing many issues.
This gun could have been better than the Galil. OFB just has to ruin a good design. Also, why such a tight rifling on a gun with 18.5" barrel? Shouldn't it shoot lower weight bullets to long distances?

Is the disassembly same as the AK?

Also, a cold hammer forged barrel would have been good. Agree with machined reciever part. And M-LOK because you can add Mil 1913 slots to the handguard. You can remove those when you transition to M-LOK, which is overall a better mounting system. And lightweight.
 

Johny_Baba

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This gun could have been better than the Galil. OFB just has to ruin a good design. Also, why such a tight rifling on a gun with 18.5" barrel? Shouldn't it shoot lower weight bullets to long distances?

Is the disassembly same as the AK?

Also, a cold hammer forged barrel would have been good. Agree with machined reciever part. And M-LOK because you can add Mil 1913 slots to the handguard. You can remove those when you transition to M-LOK, which is overall a better mounting system. And lightweight.
Well INSAS' barrel is made this way to make it compatible with 5.56x45mm INSAS round which is somewhat heavier than 5.56x45mm NATO rounds of M193 and SS109,also INSAS' round is about 2mm longer than NATO one,albeit it's also said that muzzle velocity// average chamber pressure of INSAS round is actually tad lower than both NATO ones
and barrel on INSAS is cold hammer forged one. OFB happen to have some european (probably Austrian) barrel forging machines with them that they use for INSAS.

As for disassembly part,
INSAS IS AK,so of course disassembly gonna be same.

All talking make me think you haven't seen inside of the INSAS yet or what...Anyway refer to this video and observe the disassembly//assembly process you'll get it.

 

Vishalreddy3

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Streyr AUG range and accuracy test!
In the future, if India selected F90 from Lithgow Firearms from Australia, then this rifle might come closest.
 

Killbot

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Streyr AUG range and accuracy test!
In the future, if India selected F90 from Lithgow Firearms from Australia, then this rifle might come closest.
I highly recommend that you all check that channel out...

 

JBH22

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Streyr AUG range and accuracy test!
In the future, if India selected F90 from Lithgow Firearms from Australia, then this rifle might come closest.
Is there scope for adding new rifle after sig sauer and ak203 deal?
 

Killbot

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Is there scope for adding new rifle after sig sauer and ak203 deal?
There is a tender for 4 lakh CQB carbines chambered in 5.56x45mm. That will probably get finalized by the end of next year.

If you mean guns of AK and Sig class, then no. But existing AKs will probably be upgraded..
 

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