SCE-200 Semi-cryogenic Engine - News, Updates and Reports

[Vamsi]

Seems like the development cycle was way too slow, we spent nearly 2 decade working on an engine that we now don't have a viable use case for

funding also played a role in this slow development cycle

 

[standard snowball]

funding also played a role in this slow development cycle

I just hope that our metholox engine doesn't get stuck in this funding hell

 

[Blademaster]

Seems like the development cycle was way too slow, we spent nearly 2 decade working on an engine that we now don't have a viable use case for

I would look at it in a different way. We built a strong foundation base for our rocketry science and engineering corps that our future generations can build upon. These things do not happen overnight but over several decades.

 

[AnantS]

Seems like the development cycle was way too slow, we spent nearly 2 decade working on an engine that we now don't have a viable use case for

Well on shoestring budget you can only focus on so many programmes. ISRO was focussed on realising cryo. I think realising cryo has helped and shall help them immensely in developing Semi Cryo and Methaloz engines.

Next challenge shall be RDE engines

 

[standard snowball]

Well on shoestring budget you can only focus on so many programmes. ISRO was focussed on realising cryo. I think realising cryo has helped and shall help them immensely in developing Semi Cryo and Methaloz engines.

Next challenge shall be RDE engines

Wait, didn't we buy this SCE 200 engine tech from Ukraine.
Anyways if we could make SCE 200 reusable like the Merlin engine, it would be awesome.

I am happy isro was focused on cryogenic engine afterall that work in cryogenic engines laid the ground work for metholox engine

 

[AnantS]

Wait, didn't we buy this SCE 200 engine tech from Ukraine.
Anyways if we could make SCE 200 reusable like the Merlin engine, it would be awesome.

I am happy isro was focused on cryogenic engine afterall that work in cryogenic engines laid the ground work for metholox engine

India got what they could offer to us. IIRC they sold RD-810 drawings. RD-810 was never tested in flight. Chinese YF-100 seems to based on the same.

 

[TopWatcher]

I just hope that our metholox engine doesn't get stuck in this funding hell

I dont think so also. ISRO seems find some application/usage thats why now concentrating on metholox. Fund now should not be an issue. But CY3 should be successful this time, if not than govt will than think twice in releasing fund or future of ISRO.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

NGLV with three LM400 core boosters can easily lift 70 tons to LEO just like Falcon Heavy.....I don't see any future applications for SCE-200(other than LVM3-SC), if GoI approves full scale development of 980KN thrust methalox engine

Well, that all is yet to emerge.
Issue is not just about thrust to volume ratio but Methalox is a concept just under experiments. Methalox rocket will actually take a while to fly from India.

SCE-200 meanwhile already is a 2000 kN+ thrust engine, similar to RS-25D/E used in NASA's SLS, just came under practical tests which already has enough thrust to power any HLV or SHLV.
Fewer SCE-200 will have to clustered to any hevay or super heavy lift launch system. And SCE-200 will definitely fly before even a small methane engine in ISRO.

 

[Vamsi]

Well, that all is yet to emerge.
Issue is not just about thrust to volume ratio but Methalox is a concept just under experiments. Methalox rocket will actually take a while to fly from India.

SCE-200 meanwhile already is a 2000 kN+ thrust engine, similar to RS-25D/E used in NASA's SLS, just came under practical tests which already has enough thrust to power any HLV or SHLV.
Fewer SCE-200 will have to clustered to any hevay or super heavy lift launch system. And SCE-200 will definitely fly before even a small methane engine in ISRO.

Yes SCE-200 will definitely fly even before a small Methalox engine, but I'm talking about the scenario when GoI approves the 100ton Methalox engine.....also note that NGLV development depends on the engine choice.....its not like, first we develop NGLV with SCE-200 & then replace those engines with Methalox engines....if we want to replace SCE-200 you have to redesign the entire LV again....

 

[AnantS]

Yes SCE-200 will definitely fly even before a small Methalox engine, but I'm talking about the scenario when GoI approves the 100ton Methalox engine.....also note that NGLV development depends on the engine choice.....its not like, first we develop NGLV with SCE-200 & then replace those engines with Methalox engines....if we want to replace SCE-200 you have to redesign the entire LV again....

actually Given its ISRO.. Rest assured it shall extract every penny out of the design & Engine just like PSLV

 

[Lonewolf]

Yes SCE-200 will definitely fly even before a small Methalox engine, but I'm talking about the scenario when GoI approves the 100ton Methalox engine.....also note that NGLV development depends on the engine choice.....its not like, first we develop NGLV with SCE-200 & then replace those engines with Methalox engines....if we want to replace SCE-200 you have to redesign the entire LV again....

Or you can achieve reusablility by having the whole cluster of booster and first stage being landed on lahch pad using single of three engine,

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Yes SCE-200 will definitely fly even before a small Methalox engine, but I'm talking about the scenario when GoI approves the 100ton Methalox engine.....also note that NGLV development depends on the engine choice.....its not like, first we develop NGLV with SCE-200 & then replace those engines with Methalox engines....if we want to replace SCE-200 you have to redesign the entire LV again....

Won't a multiple Methalox Engine based rocket will be too bulky against one based on SCE-200?

 

[Vamsi]

Won't a multiple Methalox Engine based rocket will be too bulky against one based on SCE-200?

Naa, it won't be, also note that SCE-200 is not a light weight engine, it weighs 2.7tons, 5 of these engines alone combined weighs 13.5tons, empty weight of the core stage would be high, hence there would be more payload penalty compared to Methalox engines

 

[Vamsi]

Or you can achieve reusablility by having the whole cluster of booster and first stage being landed on lahch pad using single of three engine,

the problem with SCE-200 is it's throttle range, it can achieve only 60%,but it needs atleast 40% to land

 

[Vamsi]

actually Given its ISRO.. Rest assured it shall extract every penny out of the design & Engine just like PSLV

Both PSLV & GSLV are inefficient LVs, but we cannot blame ISRO here, with the puny budget they did their best,but now times have changed, NGLV should be as efficient as western LVs, Methalox engine is the way forward for that

 

[TopWatcher]

Both PSLV & GSLV are inefficient LVs, but we cannot blame ISRO here, with the puny budget they did their best,but now times have changed, NGLV should be as efficient as western LVs, Methalox engine is the way forward for that

Mileage kitna deta hai

 

[Lonewolf]

the problem with SCE-200 is it's throttle range, it can achieve only 60%,but it needs atleast 40% to land

Merlin engine of Falcon heavy have how throttle range too but what they do is ,they only give fuel to one of the engine of the nine and you get the result intended

 

[skywatcher]

India got what they could offer to us. IIRC they sold RD-810 drawings. RD-810 was never tested in flight. Chinese YF-100 seems to based on the same.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Govt allocated substantial Rs 1500 cr to SCE project in 2009 with completion targeted for 2015. Project is running 15 yrs late as earliest possible launch of test vehicle is 2026 and commercial launches by 2030. It’s painfully slow, almost 3 decades ago taken by ISRO for getting its act together for GTO launches.

It seems ISRO thought that they would be able to do reverse engineering simply from the drawings, subsequently they realised the difficulty and increased the involvement of Ukrainian experts, Test facilities but still the project went slow because ISRO continued to be overconfident rather than fully involving the Ukrainian experts & facilities for faster execution

frankly, I feel ISRO has lost its way and is over involved in vanity and astronomy projects rather than concentrating on commercial launch vehicles and commercial satellites which have immediate benefits.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Govt allocated substantial Rs 1500 cr to SCE project in 2009 with completion targeted for 2015. Project is running 15 yrs late as earliest possible launch of test vehicle is 2026 and commercial launches by 2030. It’s painfully slow, almost 3 decades ago taken by ISRO for getting its act together for GTO launches.

It seems ISRO thought that they would be able to do reverse engineering simply from the drawings, subsequently they realised the difficulty and increased the involvement of Ukrainian experts, Test facilities but still the project went slow because ISRO continued to be overconfident rather than fully involving the Ukrainian experts & facilities for faster execution

There is no overconfidence about it since engine was engineered from RD-120, design & cycle which which never flown with India and had to be a long term time consuming program given that even cryogenic era in India began in 2000s.

frankly, I feel ISRO has lost its way and is over involved in vanity and astronomy projects rather than concentrating on commercial launch vehicles and commercial satellites which have immediate benefits.

ISRO's ultimate function is only about research and astronomy and not commerical projects. They were just ran parallelly till Indian aerospace industry matures.

ISRO was created for research & astronomy, commerical aspect is a just side business which is short-lived may not exist after 10-15 years as private companies would take lead.