Russian involvement in Syrian crisis

pmaitra

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I think the biggest problem for Turkey is the reality of an emerging kurdish state and the large numbers of kurds, crypto-kurds, crypto-armenians in their population that hasn't integrated that well into the turkish state.
If they (turkish leadership) can handle that (kurdish problem) in a graceful way that doesn't escalate turkish-kurdish tensions, then it will be good for turkey. At the same time, rather than trying to allign with Euro, turkey should return to its roots Asia. Okay that may sound a bit romantic but what i mean is improve relations with Russia (drop NATO), China (drop E. Turkestan). Yup sacrifices, but they need to, if they want turkey to survive.
Break up of turkey is not necessarily a good thing for the region.
But they need to get rid of erdogan, he seems to be inept.
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I don't think that small protrusion is kurdish region; besides giving that to kurds will give them access to sea, make them stronger, not good thing for neighbours.
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Also I don't like the greeks too much :D
Why would people integrate with a fake identity? People of Turkey are nominally Turks. They might have a tiny bit of Turk in them, but they are pre-dominantly Graeco-Armenid people. Not everyone likes to take up a fake identity just because they were defeated at some point in the past. Even the Iranians did not adopt a Turkish identity, despite once being under the Seljuk Turks.

Turkey cannot handle it gracefully without giving up territory, methinks. Giving up territory would be political suicide. You are correct that the break-up of Turkey might be a problem.

Erdogan is power-hungry, but not very bright. He thinks he is a Sultan/Khan/Khagan (not to be confused with the cookie distributor's husband's last name, but if one does confuse, he might not be completely wrong).

The Syrian Kurds live adjacent to that protrusion. The various ethnicities in Syria and Turkey are not necessarily geographically contiguous. This makes it very complicated.

I prefer the Greeks over the Turks any day.
 

Akim

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Guys, the Russians, Iranians and Syrians have already said it. There will be no "Blitzkrieg".
This war is gonna take another year or two unless diplomatic solutions succeed.
Gradually, the war turns into an international religious confrontation.
 

Razor

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Why would people integrate with a fake identity? People of Turkey are nominally Turks. They might have a tiny bit of Turk in them, but they are pre-dominantly Graeco-Armenid people. Not everyone likes to take up a fake identity just because they were defeated at some point in the past. Even the Iranians did not adopt a Turkish identity, despite once being under the Seljuk Turks.

Turkey cannot handle it gracefully without giving up territory, methinks. Giving up territory would be political suicide. You are correct that the break-up of Turkey might be a problem.

Erdogan is power-hungry, but not very bright. He thinks he is a Sultan/Khan/Khagan (not to be confused with the cookie distributor's husband's last name, but if one does confuse, he might not be completely wrong).

The Syrian Kurds live adjacent to that protrusion. The various ethnicities in Syria and Turkey are not necessarily geographically contiguous. This makes it very complicated.

I prefer the Greeks over the Turks any day.
If you look at russia: 80% ruski; largest minority tatar = 2-3% if i'm not mistaken. Tatar are pretty well integrated, minorities of nominal concern chechens (around 1%), fifth column (unknown percentage). In china Han 91%; largest minorities Zhuang, manchu (all <1% and integrated). Problem with Turkey is minority is around 25% and not well integrated and has higher birth rate than turks.
Besides if the kurds stay in turkey they are going to want to more and more autonomy and the turkish state will not be able to function effectively in such a condtion esp. considering higher birth rate of kurds. What i'm saying is the character of the turkish state will change and it will not be to the benefit of the turks. Which leads to point #2 that Turks should gracefully (for lack of better term) designate some region in their SE as Kurdish and try to move the kurds there before it is too late. Political suicide is better than national suicide. I think the turks must act fast because a kurdish state is an inevitability.
 

pmaitra

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If you look at russia: 80% ruski; largest minority tatar = 2-3% if i'm not mistaken. Tatar are pretty well integrated, minorities of nominal concern chechens (around 1%), fifth column (unknown percentage). In china Han 91%; largest minorities Zhuang, manchu (all <1% and integrated). Problem with Turkey is minority is around 25% and not well integrated and has higher birth rate than turks.
Besides if the kurds stay in turkey they are going to want to more and more autonomy and the turkish state will not be able to function effectively in such a condtion esp. considering higher birth rate of kurds. What i'm saying is the character of the turkish state will change and it will not be to the benefit of the turks. Which leads to point #2 that Turks should gracefully (for lack of better term) designate some region in their SE as Kurdish and try to move the kurds there before it is too late. Political suicide is better than national suicide. I think the turks must act fast because a kurdish state is an inevitability.
Good point. You missed an important part in my comment thought. I was hoping you would catch it. :tsk:
 

Razor

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Good point. You missed an important part in my comment thought. I was hoping you would catch it. :tsk:
What is it, please? I mean maybe I didn't feel its importance.
 

Razor

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pmaitra said:
Erdogan is power-hungry, but not very bright. He thinks he is a Sultan/Khan/Khagan (not to be confused with the cookie distributor's husband's last name, but if one does confuse, he might not be completely wrong).
Yes, Erdogan is a megalomaniac. This is well observable.

Cookie girl's "husband" is Kagan aka Cohen i.e. Jew.
Only connection i can between khagan and kagan is Khazar? :confused:
 

gadeshi

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Well, I was just responding to @Akim and his fantastic comment.

Anyway, what is your opinion about what Russia should do? I think this is a good time to break up Turkey. North-East Turkey should go to Armenia, and South-East Turkey should become Kurdistan. That will also make a joke out of NATO.
Personally I think that Russia or anybody else shouldn't break anything because it will lead to chaos. Only stable and strong governments can withstand chaos and Russia does exactly one thing - enforcing national governments and cooperates them.

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pmaitra

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Yes, Erdogan is a megalomaniac. This is well observable.

Cookie girl's "husband" is Kagan aka Cohen i.e. Jew.
Only connection i can between khagan and kagan is Khazar? :confused:
Also note:

Fred Kagan: An American resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), and a former professor of military history at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. He went to Yale, the same place where Timothy Snyder is a so called professor of history. Cookie girl is his sister-in-law. He recently wrote a Russia bashing article for CNN.

Kimberley Kagan: An American military historian. She heads the Institute for the Study of War and has taught at West Point, Yale, Georgetown University, and American University. Kagan has published in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Weekly Standard and elsewhere.

"Birds of the same feather flock together?"

Khagan or Qagan (Mongolian: хаан, Khaan;[1]) is a title in the Mongolian language equal to the status of emperor and used to refer to someone who rules a khaganate or empire. The title was adopted by Ögedei Khan from the Turkic title kaɣan.

Rus' Khaganate
Khazar Khaganate

P.S.: Some of the statements not within quotes are quoted and paraphrased from the link provided herein.
 

Akim

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............................................................................
 

pmaitra

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Week Five: Russian Syria Forces Are Digging in
No quick victory here as Syrian military exhausted after four years of fighting hasn’t been able to capitalize on Russian air cover yet



The Saker | (The Unz Review) | Russia Insider



Originally appeared at The Unz Review

Whether this tragedy was directly linked to the war in Syria or not, there is no doubt that the downing of Kogalymavia Flight 9268 was the main event of the past week.

Since I have covered this issue elsewhere, I shall not return to it in detail again here. I will just repeat here my personal conclusion that this tragedy will not impact the Russian operation in Syria or affect the political situation inside Russia.

As for the cause of the tragedy, there are increasing indications that both western and Russian security services have come to a tentative conclusion that it was, indeed, a bomb. On Friday, the head of the Federal Security Service has recommended canceling all flights to Egypt and the evacuation of all the Russian citizens in Egypt (roughly 70,000 people). Several EU countries have also taken similar measures.

There has, however, been another interesting but less noticed development this week in the Russian operation in Syria: the Russians are quietly but very effectively “digging in.”

For the first time, Russia has officially declared that air-defense units were also deployed with the Russian forces. Until now, the main burden for air defense had fallen upon the Russian Navy and, specifically, the ships equipped with the naval variant of the S-300 missile system.

This was not an optimal solution not only because it put the burden of defending land based assets from the sea, tying down the Russian navy expeditionary force, but also because this solution only “covered” about half of Syria.

The use of the Moskva guided missile cruiser was a stop-gap measure designed to protect the Russian force in Latakia, but now it appears that dedicated air defense units have been deployed.

These are most likely the land-based versions of the S-300 missile, possibly in combination with point defense systems such as the Pantsir-S1 and other, shorter range, MANPADs such as the 9K338 Igla-S and the advanced 9K33 Verba.

There are also reports indicating that the Russians have deployed very sophisticated electronic warfare units including top-of-the line Krasukhka-4 EW systems which are amongst the most sophisticated mobile EW systems ever built and they are reportedly capable of jamming AWACS and satellites in space. Add to this the presense of SU-30SMs in the skies, and you have a force capable of controlling the Syrian skies.

When asked about this Russian officials gave a cute reply: they said that these air-defense systems were deployed in case of a hijacked being used to attack the Russian airbase in Latakia. Right.

The real purpose of these efforts is becoming obvious: Russia is trying to deny the US the control of the skies over Syria and, so far, there is very little the USA can do about it (short of starting WWIII). Furthermore, the Russians are also sending a message to Turkey, France and Israel – all countries which have, at different times and in different ways, indicated that they wanted to use the Syrian airspace for their own purposes.

There are now also reports of Russian special forces being sent to Syria. The WSJ suggested that these forces could be given the tasks of liaising with Syrian intelligence and acting as forward air controllers (FACs).

I also personally see another important task for these units: to pre-position hidden fuel caches for the Russian helicopters should there be a need to send them to rescue downed Russian pilots in eastern Syria (Russian Spetsnaz units did create such fuel cashes in southern Afghanistan during the war).

Take a look at the combat radius of Russian helicopters in Syria. Ideally, a search and rescue mission would employ both a dedicated attack helicopter such as the Mi-24 and a multi-role helicopter such as the Mi-17, the former provider cover and protection for the latter. It would also be possible to have SU-25s protecting Mi-17s, but the best possible version would be to have a covert refueling base somewhere deep inside nominally Daesh territory to extend the range of the rescue teams.

Some western sources believe that Russian special forces might also be given direct action missions. This is absolutely possible and such missions are well within the capabilities of the Spetsnaz GRU. Still, there primary mission is a special reconnaissance one and while they might be used to destroy a high value Daesh target (material or human), we will probably never hear about it.

What is certain is that the Russians are steadily increasing their capabilities in Syria and that their presence is rapidly growing from a small and vulnerable force to a much more balanced and capable one.

The Syrians, in the meanwhile, might be achieving their first real successes in their counter offensive. While the Syrian government forces have been slowly pushing back Daesh on many fronts, this progress had, until now, failed to yield an operational breakthrough. This might be happening right now with the much awaited reopening of the highway to Aleppo.

The main problem for the Russians remains the fact that the Syrian military has not been able to capitalize on the Russian intervention.

This is due to a combination of factors including the fact that the Syrian military is over-streched and unable to concentrate enough forces in one location to achieve a significant breakthrough and the fact that Daesh fighters are well dug-in and are, by all accounts, resisting with determination and skill.

Still, the Russian air campaign is degrading the Daesh capabilities and it is possible that, eventually, this will result in a sudden collapse of the Daesh lines in a critical part of the front.

For example, the Syrian army is, reportedly, only a few miles from liberating the Kuweyres military airbase and even though its progress is very slow it is likely that the Syrians will eventually break the Daesh siege of this crucial objective. Likewise, in Djobar neighborhood of Damascus is gradually being clearly in, again, a slow moving but successful operation.

All in all, I am very cautiously optimistic and I keep hoping for an operational victory for the Syrians. If it does not happen, the Iranians and Hezbollah will have to move much larger forces in.
 

pmaitra

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If It Comes to That: What Would a Russian-Israeli Clash in Syria Entail?
And who would win?

Michael Peck | (The National Interest) | Russia Insider



Originally appeared in The National Interest

Moscow’s intervention in Syria has put Russian forces on Israel’s doorstep. Though Israel and Russia have set up a hotline to avoid any conflicts, there remains a possibility–however remote–that Israeli and Russian forces may clash.

It won’t be the first time. During the War of Attrition between Israel and Egypt in the early 1970s, Soviet pilots supporting Egypt engaged in dogfights with Israeli jets, only to see the vaunted MiGs blasted out of sky.

This time might be different.

So what might a Russian-Israeli conflict look like? It is actually easier to say what such a conflict would not look like. It would not be a war because there is no reason for war: Russian and Israel do not have territorial designs on each other, neither is out for regime change, and both have nuclear weapons. A Russian war with Israel would inevitably drag in Israel’s big brother, the United States.

It would probably not involve ground or naval combat between Russian and Israeli forces. Russia has no reason to enter Israeli territory, or help Iran and Hezbollah to do so. After its Lebanon fiasco and now facing a potential Palestinian intifada, the last thing Israel wants is to put boots on the ground in a Syrian civil war where the only choice is which evil wins. There is the potential that Russia could be drawn into a war between Israel and Hezbollah, but then Hezbollah has enough trouble fighting Syrian rebels and dealing with domestic Lebanese politics, without provoking a fight with Israel.

That leaves aerial combat between Israeli and Russian jets as the most likely possibility. We can envision several scenarios where this might occur, accidentally or deliberately. Perhaps Israeli planes enter Syrian airspace deemed off-limits by Moscow, either accidentally or as a show-the-flag signal, and Russian planes intercept. Perhaps Russian planes enter Israeli airspace for the same reasons. Or, Israeli aircraft strike arms convoys bringing Iranian arms to Hezbollah, in transit through Syria.

Whatever the cause, any battle would probably involve a small number of aircraft on both sides. Possible antagonists include Russia’s Su-30 fighter and Su-34 strike fighter, versus Israeli F-15s and F-16s. To make this mix even more interesting, Israel is scheduled to receive the F-35 in 2016: given how long the Syrian civil war is likely to last, critics and supporters of the F-35 who wonder how the Lightning II will fare against advanced Russian jets may have their questions answered. As always, the Middle East has the dubious honor of being the world’s weapons testing ground.

As for which aircraft would emerge victorious in this contest, I don’t know, and neither does anyone else. The F-15 and F-16 have had more combat time over the years than the newest Russian aircraft, but the fact is that it is been decades since Israel, Russia, the United States, or any other nation has faced serious air opposition with well-trained pilots and sophisticated aircraft.

However, we can point out some possible facets to any potential Russian-Israeli conflict. Electronic warfare will certainly be key. Russia has deployed advanced jammers in Syria. On the other hand, Israel – which helped create Stuxnet – is extremely proficient in cyber warfare. Should both sides choose to unleash these capabilities, the Syrian skies may become unfriendly to radars, radios and computers.

Both sides have advanced air-to-air missiles, with Israel employing the beyond-visual-range, infrared-homing Python 5, while the Su-30 can fire radar-guided and infrared-homing weapons. Both nations equip their pilots with helmet-mounted sights.

Russia has sent advanced anti-aircraft missiles to Syria, but these are short-range weapons rather than long-range missiles like the S-300 which would so threaten Israeli airspace that Jerusalem might very well treat them as a casus belli (and yes, some outlets are saying otherwise). On the other hand, Israel is arguably the most creative nation in the world when it comes to drones, leaving open all sorts of possibilities for unmanned mischief.

Hopefully, all this will remain speculation. Russia and Israel have enough enemies to fight without having to fight each other.
 
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pmaitra

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Russia in Syria Attack Helicopters Hit ISIS Fighters in Idlib
(First one minute may be skipped)

Сирия авиаудар ВКС России Мощный взрыв Syria airstrike Russia Powerful explosion

Syrian War! Fuel tanker blows up Сирия Война! Подрыв грузовика с цистерной топлива!

Syrian Military Report 9 November 2015 General FrontLine information
 

gadeshi

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If It Comes to That: What Would a Russian-Israeli Clash in Syria Entail?
And who would win?

Michael Peck | (The National Interest) | Russia Insider



Originally appeared in The National Interest

Moscow’s intervention in Syria has put Russian forces on Israel’s doorstep. Though Israel and Russia have set up a hotline to avoid any conflicts, there remains a possibility–however remote–that Israeli and Russian forces may clash.

It won’t be the first time. During the War of Attrition between Israel and Egypt in the early 1970s, Soviet pilots supporting Egypt engaged in dogfights with Israeli jets, only to see the vaunted MiGs blasted out of sky.

This time might be different.

So what might a Russian-Israeli conflict look like? It is actually easier to say what such a conflict would not look like. It would not be a war because there is no reason for war: Russian and Israel do not have territorial designs on each other, neither is out for regime change, and both have nuclear weapons. A Russian war with Israel would inevitably drag in Israel’s big brother, the United States.

It would probably not involve ground or naval combat between Russian and Israeli forces. Russia has no reason to enter Israeli territory, or help Iran and Hezbollah to do so. After its Lebanon fiasco and now facing a potential Palestinian intifada, the last thing Israel wants is to put boots on the ground in a Syrian civil war where the only choice is which evil wins. There is the potential that Russia could be drawn into a war between Israel and Hezbollah, but then Hezbollah has enough trouble fighting Syrian rebels and dealing with domestic Lebanese politics, without provoking a fight with Israel.

That leaves aerial combat between Israeli and Russian jets as the most likely possibility. We can envision several scenarios where this might occur, accidentally or deliberately. Perhaps Israeli planes enter Syrian airspace deemed off-limits by Moscow, either accidentally or as a show-the-flag signal, and Russian planes intercept. Perhaps Russian planes enter Israeli airspace for the same reasons. Or, Israeli aircraft strike arms convoys bringing Iranian arms to Hezbollah, in transit through Syria.

Whatever the cause, any battle would probably involve a small number of aircraft on both sides. Possible antagonists include Russia’s Su-30 fighter and Su-34 strike fighter, versus Israeli F-15s and F-16s. To make this mix even more interesting, Israel is scheduled to receive the F-35 in 2016: given how long the Syrian civil war is likely to last, critics and supporters of the F-35 who wonder how the Lightning II will fare against advanced Russian jets may have their questions answered. As always, the Middle East has the dubious honor of being the world’s weapons testing ground.

As for which aircraft would emerge victorious in this contest, I don’t know, and neither does anyone else. The F-15 and F-16 have had more combat time over the years than the newest Russian aircraft, but the fact is that it is been decades since Israel, Russia, the United States, or any other nation has faced serious air opposition with well-trained pilots and sophisticated aircraft.

However, we can point out some possible facets to any potential Russian-Israeli conflict. Electronic warfare will certainly be key. Russia has deployed advanced jammers in Syria. On the other hand, Israel – which helped create Stuxnet – is extremely proficient in cyber warfare. Should both sides choose to unleash these capabilities, the Syrian skies may become unfriendly to radars, radios and computers.

Both sides have advanced air-to-air missiles, with Israel employing the beyond-visual-range, infrared-homing Python 5, while the Su-30 can fire radar-guided and infrared-homing weapons. Both nations equip their pilots with helmet-mounted sights.

Russia has sent advanced anti-aircraft missiles to Syria, but these are short-range weapons rather than long-range missiles like the S-300 which would so threaten Israeli airspace that Jerusalem might very well treat them as a casus belli (and yes, some outlets are saying otherwise). On the other hand, Israel is arguably the most creative nation in the world when it comes to drones, leaving open all sorts of possibilities for unmanned mischief.

Hopefully, all this will remain speculation. Russia and Israel have enough enemies to fight without having to fight each other.
Some tendentious still, but there are thin graines of sanity are clearly visible.

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pmaitra

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Good news. The Syrian Army, with the help of the Russian Aerospace Forces, have pushed back ISIS and connected with the besieged airbase in northern Syria. The airbase was besieged since 2013.
 

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