Russia-Pakistan Rapproachment

[pmaitra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

Sir, Boeing offered (if I am not wrong it was 2008) design your own F-18 offer to IAF in MMRCA. That means IAF can choose / select systems / sub-systems as per their choice which can go on F-18s.

I never said anything about N-sub for India here. It was one of the Russian fanboy, who asked about N-sub for India and I replied US offered it to one of their allies (it was Australia. But Australia refused it).

And I posted all the posts here on one of the Indian Air Force thread, you can find it there. If I am not wrong it was 'Rafale is a big mistake' or something like thread. Not sure though.

One of the article says it, US offered to mach what ever Russian offered as of yet.

No, that is not what you said.

Allow me to refresh your memory:

Sir, it is your propaganda in favour of Russia and that is why you call it as "lie" and "misleading". US offered everything what ever Russians offered India as of yet. That is fact.

Sir ,

You have been caught red handed.When did US offer nuclear submarine to India?

^^

On top of it, he asked about N-subs, but I didn't said anything about N-subs.

Sir,

You said "US offered everything what ever Russians offered India as of yet"
And I do not know about others but when US says "come let's have fun" then I would not blindly follow ,because US beleive in"come let me have fun" . .

@pmaitra sir,This sums up USA,British and Russian history with India.


see more at

The Submarine Arm | Indian Navy

Everything means everything. India is not Australia. Please take responsibility for what you have written.

[HR][/HR]

Please post sources for your claims.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

@Casper, you are misguided. Indian planners do not think like you. India buys from US today but the relationship is still "testing the waters". It is not a full-fledged strategic relationship as some people would like to believe.

India will choose what is best for its circumstances.

India did not decide to buy F-16 or F-18 from USA. My own opinion was that F-16 was better for India compared to Rafale. In fact I was surprised at the choice of Rafale. This shows the Indian mindset.

F-16 has the ideal specifications for Indian requirements and is a comparatively low cost plane.

There are many problems with Russia also, but Russia is very willing to share technology which Americans are not willing. So India can buy American stuff but technical gain is zero. India has to depend on USA for the life of that equipment. This is not good for a country that wants to keep an independent foreign policy.

Sir, that's fine.

But tell me where you find that I am misguided and what is wrong in my thinking.

People says it here that India is not ally of Russia.

OK, then who wants India to become ally of US also?

Don't become ally of US. Just stay with US as we stayed till today with Russia.

Is that wrong...?

OR even people on DFI don't have enough liberty to express their thoughts....!....?

Indian defence establishment doesn't run as per DFI and people here can say whatever they like to say.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

No, that is not what you said.

Allow me to refresh your memory:

Everything means everything. India is not Australia. Please take responsibility for what you have written.

[HR][/HR]

Please post sources for your claims.

Sir, from where you got this N-subs to India matter and why you asked it to me only?

Bcz, we gone through this before also in some other thread.

And in this thread I mentioned that previous discussion in my reply to @JBH22. Check this words, you will find it in my post to @JBH22 --->

And I posted all the posts here on one of the Indian Air Force thread,

Got it...? Let me know that you got it.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

Sir, your facepalm smiley is getting a bit tiresome.

Sir, from where you got this N-subs to India matter and why you asked it to me only?

Sir, I got the N-sub to India from the word "everything."

Bcz, we gone through this before also in some other thread.

And in this thread I mentioned that previous discussion in my reply to @JBH22. Check this words, you will find it in my post to @JBH22 --->

Got it...? Let me know that you got it.

Sir, even I have gone through your repeated claims that US offered everything that Russia has offered to India as of yet many times.

No offense intended, but I want to ask you, do you really understand what the word "everything" means?

 

[Zebra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

Sir, your facepalm smiley is getting a bit tiresome.


Sir, I got the N-sub to India from the word "everything."


Sir, even I have gone through your repeated claims that US offered everything that Russia has offered to India as of yet many times.

No offense intended, but I want to ask you, do you really understand what the word "everything" means?

Sir, check it on that thread which posted before, the link is there. It may help you.

And I have nothing to do with what you think.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

Sir, check it on that thread which posted before, the link is there. It may help you.

And I have nothing to do with what you think.

Sir, I will leave it up to the readers to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

Sir, I will leave it up to the readers to draw their own conclusions.

@ readers

Please feel free to draw your own conclusions and let everyone know about it.

Regards.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

@ readers

Please feel free to draw your own conclusions and let everyone know about it.

Regards.

I have already stated what I had to state. Let's extend this debate a little further. Let's look at the quote below:

if india can buy weapons from russias enemy then why object to russia selling arms to our enemy? they never sold to pak when we used to be dependent on mostly russian.

India is a sovereign country and is free to buy from whoever it wants, including Russia's enemy, USA.
Russia is a sovereign country and is free to sell to whoever it wants, including India's enemy, Pakistan.

The Future

As India grows more and more self reliant, India will be importing less, and the major weapons exporting countries will have a smaller market to sell their wares. So, we should expect US, Russia, France, UK, Germany, to sell to Pakistan, PRC, and Saudi Arabia, the three biggest threats to India.

We should be prepared for it, and not throw tantrums. We will soon be facing industrial espionage and scuttling of our own export efforts by these very foreign arms exporting countries.

We need to move on from the past (no alliance), but not forget the lessons from the past (who can be trusted the most/least).

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

It is known from sometime, That PAA is into Russian Origin Helicopters, They operate Hind since Russian were in Astan ..

Pakistani Mi-24 #0724 - the only one in Pakistan

Pakistan also operate a number of MI-17s, MI-17 is better than Puma in PAF service..

PA were impressed by Indian MI-35 operations in UN, Where once IAF has to make MI-35 sorties to save PA soldiers from African rebels ..

=============
=============

Future example of PA MI-35

IAF MI-35

What they will be getting is little inferior to Indian MI-35 counterparts, But surely will outgun and out range their own Cobra gunships, I am expecting no less than 50 of these ..

ISLAMABAD: Russian envoy to Pakistan Alexey Dedov on Wednesday said that the MI-35 helicopter deal with Moscow and Islamabad is "politically approved", Radio Pakistan reported.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

PA were impressed by Indian MI-35 operations in UN, Where once IAF has to make MI-35 sorties to save PA soldiers from African rebels ..

Please open a thread on this if you can. I am interested in learning about this.

 

[JBH22]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

Sir, Boeing offered (if I am not wrong it was 2008) design your own F-18 offer to IAF in MMRCA. That means IAF can choose / select systems / sub-systems as per their choice which can go on F-18s.

You are wrong. IAF requested for mating israeli avionics to F-16 something like F-16I Sufa to which Uncle Sam flatly refused.

Plus with this buggers you never know when they pull the strings. See how they are pressuring French in the Mistral deal. Basically you become their surrogate no space for independence.

I never said anything about N-sub for India here. It was one of the Russian fanboy, who asked about N-sub for India and I replied US offered it to one of their allies (it was Australia. But Australia refused it).

And I posted all the posts here on one of the Indian Air Force thread, you can find it there. If I am not wrong it was 'Rafale is a big mistake' or something like thread. Not sure though.

One of the article says it, US offered to mach what ever Russian offered as of yet.

All this fuss is for nothing.

Russkies offered Mi-28 which we disregarded in favour of Apache.

Now we make a fuss about these Russkies selling a 40 year old designed Mi-35 to Pakistan. Seriously Indians you need a reality check.

We don't buy and we are butthurt when they sell.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

I have already stated what I had to state. Let's extend this debate a little further. Let's look at the quote below:



India is a sovereign country and is free to buy from whoever it wants, including Russia's enemy, USA.
Russia is a sovereign country and is free to sell to whoever it wants, including India's enemy, Pakistan.

The Future

As India grows more and more self reliant, India will be importing less, and the major weapons exporting countries will have a smaller market to sell their wares. So, we should expect US, Russia, France, UK, Germany, to sell to Pakistan, PRC, and Saudi Arabia, the three biggest threats to India.

We should be prepared for it, and not throw tantrums. We will soon be facing industrial espionage and scuttling of our own export efforts by these very foreign arms exporting countries.

We need to move on from the past (no alliance), but not forget the lessons from the past (who can be trusted the most/least).

You always pick / choose what ever suits your pro Russian mind. Isn't it?

Post here again what was my reply to the same post and answer what I asked to that member.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

You always pick / choose what ever suits your pro Russian mind. Isn't it?

Post here again what was my reply to the same post and answer what I asked to that member.

Don't want India to become lapdog of US. Don't want India to fight a war with PRC for US' benefit. Russia treats India as an equal. Yes, between trusting US and Russia, India should always trust Russia more.

 

[Kashif]

Why you not concerned about US and Chinese sales which are far more potent, and get concerned by this small sale.

I think Russians are free to sell in South Asia just as Chinese and Americans are.

India should focus on own R&D and own manufacturing rather than worry needlessly about such things.

Exactly, i second that, India should not worry about what Pakistan is buying, but India do interfere in other matters like she did when chinese submarine reached at Lankan docks.

 

[Zebra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

Don't want India to become lapdog of US. Don't want India to fight a war with PRC for US' benefit. Russia treats India as an equal. Yes, between trusting US and Russia, India should always trust Russia more.

And what about that answer which I asked you in my previous post!

OR you can just post few crap and derail matter and get safe escape from that answer.

Epic @pmaitra style, yeah?

 

[Zebra]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

^^

This was the question......red color part......

Sir, in past India was dependent on mostly Russia and in future also it will stay dependent on mostly Russia.

The point is people refused US weapons on the basis of they supplies weapons to Pakistan. So we don't buy their weapons.

And Russian supporters were the guys who raised it again again in past. I am wrong....?

So can we apply the same logic with Russia and Russian weapons now...!

 

[sgarg]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

@Casper, you are asking something that is completely removed from reality. USA supplies to Pakistan as well as India. India IS NOT refusing American weapons because of its supplies to Pakistan.

There is a long history of both India and Pakistan buying from the same supplier country.

So why should Russia be punished for supplying to Pakistan??

I said that perhaps it is good as Russia having influence in Pakistan may work in our favour.

 

[Ashutosh Lokhande]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

^^

This was the question......red color part......

sirjee i dont think that was the only reson for not buying from americans.
americans wanted us to be like pak was to them.
they wer not willing to share TOT and also russians provided the equipments with no nakhra and also at prices affordable to us. also dont forget the way they saved our ass when US send some ships to attack us.

i feel the current foreign policy of india is the best(non allaince). this way we can have the cake and eat it too.

 

[DingDong]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

@Casper, you are asking something that is completely removed from reality. USA supplies to Pakistan as well as India. India IS NOT refusing American weapons because of its supplies to Pakistan.

There is a long history of both India and Pakistan buying from the same supplier country.

So why should Russia be punished for supplying to Pakistan??

I said that perhaps it is good as Russia having influence in Pakistan may work in our favour.

Russia won't be able to bear the burden of our trust and expectations, we must stop trusting others with our national interest. Russia has been arming China for decades, did that work in our favour? If India has to survive she will have to become RICH and self-sufficient.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Deal to sell Pakistan Mi-35 politically approved: Russian envoy to

India has russian technology that I am sure USA and others would love to learn more
about. India needs to leverage this. If Russia wants to blackmail india then india can also
Play the game.