RFP issued for India navy amphibious vessels (LHD or LPD type)

[WolfPack86]

L&T, RELIANCE OFFICIALS FIRST CALLED FOR BID OPENING, THEN SENT BACK SANS EXPLANATION

by Manu Pubby
It is unclear what changed within a few hours, but the Rs 20,000-crore contract for landing platform docks (LPD) has been in the middle of a brewing corporate war, with allegations of favouritism and supplying insider information making their way to the ministry.

On the eve of the monsoon session, the defence ministry has decided to play it safe, postponing a decision on a warship deal that would have given the winner a Rs 20,000-crore contract under the Make in India initiative.

The commercial bidding process for four amphibious warships to be made in India has been stuck for over a year now after L&T and Reliance Naval & Engineering Limited (RNEL) were shortlisted by the ministry.

In a day of u-turns, top executives of both the companies were summoned to South Block for the opening of commercial bids, which would have decided the winner of the contract. A relatively short notice of a few days was given to the executives to be present for the purpose.

L&T officials, including a board member, flew down from Mumbai and senior RNEL representatives landed up at Navy HQ at the summoned time, only to be asked to wait for over an hour. At the end of which they were informed without any explanation that the bid opening has been deferred. “The opening has been deferred for now,” a defence ministry official confirmed to ET, without elaborating on the reasons for summoning and abrupt change of plans. The executives — who were not even addressed by any senior ministry official — refused to comment.

It is unclear what changed within a few hours, but the Rs 20,000-crore contract for landing platform docks (LPD) has been in the middle of a brewing corporate war, with allegations of favouritism and supplying insider information making their way to the ministry, as reported by ET.

RNEL, which has originally bid for the contract in its earlier avatar as the Pipavav Shipyard, has filed an official complaint alleging a top Navy officer in charge of the selection process has been favouring L&T with confidential information. L&T has been pointing out the financial difficulties and debt restructuring issues that have afflicted RNEL, raising questions on its ability to complete the contract. This has resulted in further stalling of the mega contract.

The LPD has the potential to become the largest warship to be built in an Indian private sector shipyard. It is needed to move troops and equipment for an amphibious operation across the sea. Both companies have a foreign collaborator for design and construction — RNEL has joined hands with the French Naval Group and L&T’s partner is Spain’s Navantia Group.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2018/07/l-reliance-officials-first-called-for.html

 

[Armand2REP]

It isn't going to be signed until after the elections, this is political now.

 

[WolfPack86]

Why can't Magazon dock will build amphibious assault ship when to private companies fighting each over other allegation it is waste of time just govt must nominate Magazon dock.

 

[binayak95]

Why can't Magazon dock will build amphibious assault ship when to private companies fighting each over other allegation it is waste of time just govt must nominate Magazon dock.

Ek hi sarkaari dock hai that can handle anything close to 30k tonne of ship - Cochin shipyard - and you know why it is unavailable.

 

[scatterStorm]

Ek hi sarkaari dock hai that can handle anything close to 30k tonne of ship - Cochin shipyard - and you know why it is unavailable.

Yes we do, yes we do! :biggrin2:

 

[Filtercoffee]

These are some of the approximate positions of the U.S. Navy’s deployed carrier strike groups and amphibious ready groups throughout the world as of Dec. 2018, based on Navy and public data.

Total U.S. Navy Battle Force: 287

Ships Underway

Deployed ships underway: 44
Non deployed ships underway: 24
Total ships underway: 68

Ships Deployed by Fleet

3rd fleet: 1
4th fleet: 3
5th fleet: 24
6th fleet: 23
7th fleet: 50
Total: 101

The Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group is in homeport in Yokosuka, Japan. The Wasp Expeditionary Strike Group is in homeport in Sasebo, Japan.

The John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group is now in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility. A U.S. aircraft carrier has not been in the Middle East region since USS Theodore Roosevelt(CVN-71) left in March, 2018.

Carrier Strike Group 3
Carrier Air Wing 9

CVW 9, based at Naval Air Station Lemoore in California, is embarked aboard Stennis and includes a total of nine squadrons and detachments:
The “Black Aces” of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 41 from Naval Air Station Lemoore, Calif.
The “Tophatters” of VFA-14 from Naval Air Station Lemoore, Calif.
The “Warhawks” of VFA-97 from Naval Air Station Lemoore, Calif.
The “Vigilantes” of VFA-151 from Naval Air Station Lemoore, Calif.
The “Wizards” of Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 133 from Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Wash.
The “Wallbangers” of Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) 117 from Naval Air Station Pt Mugu, CA
The “Providers” of Fleet Logistics Support Squadron (VRC) 30 from Naval Air Station North Island, Calif.
The “Chargers” of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 14 from Naval Air Station North Island, Calif.
The “Raptors” of Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM) 71 from Naval Air Station North Island, Calif.

Destroyer Squadron 21

The leadership of DESRON 21 is embarked aboard Stennis and commands the guided-missile destroyers that are operating as part of the CSG.

USS Stockdale (DDG-106), homeported in San Diego, Calif.

USS Spruance (DDG-111), homeported in San Diego, Calif.

USS Chung-Hoon (DDG-93), homeported in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii

Guided-missile Cruiser
USS Mobile Bay (CG-53), homeported in San Diego, Calif.

The Essex Amphibious Ready Group (ARG) is underway in the Persian Gulf.
The ARG includes:

Wasp-class amphibious assault ship USS Essex (LHD-2), San Antonio-class amphibious transport dock

USS Anchorage (LPD-23) and Whidbey Island-class dock landing ship

USS Rushmore (LSD-47), along with the embarked 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU).

The ARG has been operating in a disaggregated fashion. Anchorage has been operating in the Mediterranean Sea in the U.S. 6th Fleet area of responsibility, while Essex and Rushmore have been operating in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility.

In the Eastern Atlantic

The Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group is underway in the Eastern Atlantic.

Carrier Strike Group 8
Aircraft carrier:
USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75), homeported in Norfolk, Va.

Carrier Air Wing 1

CVW 1 from Naval Air Station Oceana, Va., is embarked aboard Harry S. Truman and includes nine squadrons and detachments:
The “Red Rippers” of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 11 from Naval Air Station Oceana, Va.
The “Checkmates” of VFA-211 from Naval Air Station Oceania, Va.
The “Sunliners” of VFA-81 from Naval Air Station Oceana, Va.
The “Knighthawks” of VFA-136 from Naval Air Station Lemoore, Calif.
The “Rooks” of Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 137 from Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Wash.
The “Seahawks” of Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) 126 from Naval Air Station Norfolk, Va.
The “Rawhides” of Fleet Logistics Support Squadron (VRC) 40 from Naval Air Station Norfolk, Va.
The “Dragon Slayers” of Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron (HSC) 11 from Naval Air Station Norfolk, Va.
The “Proud Warriors” of Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM 72) from Naval Air Station Jacksonville, Fla.

Destroyer Squadron 28

The leadership of DESRON 28 is embarked aboard Harry S. Truman and commands the guided-missile destroyers that are operating as part of the CSG.

USS Farragut (DDG-99), homeported in Mayport, Fla.

USS Forrest Sherman (DDG-98), homeported in Norfolk, Va.

USS Arleigh Burke (DDG-51), homeported in Norfolk, Va.
Guided-missile Cruiser

USS Normandy (CG-60), homeported in Norfolk, Va.

In the Western Atlantic

USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) and USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77) are underway in the Virginia Capes Operating Areas.
According to the Navy, Lincoln completed its Combat Systems Ship Qualification Trials (CSSQT). CSQTT’s purpose is to show the ship’s self-defense system (SSDS) can protect the ship.

In Mayport, Fla.
After disembarking the 24th MEU last weekend, the Iwo Jima ARG arrived in its homeport of Mayport, Fla.

The ARG includes:

USS Iwo Jima (LHD-7)

USS New York (LPD 21)

USS Gunston Hall (LSD 44).

In the Caribbean Sea/Trujillo, Honduras
Hospital ship USNS Comfort (T-AH-20) is in Honduras. an 11-week medical support mission to Central and South America as part of U.S. Southern Command’s Enduring Promise initiative. Working with health and government partners in Ecuador, Peru, Colombia and Honduras, the embarked medical team will provide care on board and at land-based medical sites, helping to relieve pressure on national medical systems caused partly by an increase in cross-border traffic.

In the Eastern Pacific

USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) is underway for training in the Southern California Operating Areas conducting operations with F-35C Lighting II Strike Fighters.

Some of the major formations, not shown are thousands of others serving in submarines, individual surface ships, aircraft squadrons, SEALs, Special Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Forces, Coast Guard cutters and more serving throughout the globe.

 

[Thrishul]

https://navaltoday.com/2019/05/25/n...-launched-15-months-after-construction-start/

Italian LHD seems to be a good fit.

 

[Tanmay]

Didn't France sell those two made-for-Russia Mistrals to Egypt? Such a waste of good opportunity.

 

[Thrishul]

One thing that the IN should look at is if it is possible to make changes to these LHD's to fly the LCA N mk2 off of them. Since they are in the design phase, it should be possible. Turkey, Italy, Portugal, and Japan are all putting F35B's on their LHD's. F35B's are too expensive, so the LCA N mk2 should be possible. the Italian LHD has a flight deck of 230 meters which should be enough for the LCA N to land and take off if an angled flight deck, jump ramp and arrestor gears are designed into the ship. The changes if done in the design phase should cost about $100 million per ship, which is peanuts when you think about having 4 more aircraft carriers.
IN is anyway getting LCA N mk2, and it is getting the LHD's. These ships will easily last into 2060. The Chinese navy in 2030-40 will be larger than the USN, Having more CVL (light) will help us control the Indian Ocean and create zones of deterrence all over the Indian Ocean.

 

[Illusive]

One thing that the IN should look at is if it is possible to make changes to these LHD's to fly the LCA N mk2 off of them. Since they are in the design phase, it should be possible. Turkey, Italy, Portugal, and Japan are all putting F35B's on their LHD's. F35B's are too expensive, so the LCA N mk2 should be possible. the Italian LHD has a flight deck of 230 meters which should be enough for the LCA N to land and take off if an angled flight deck, jump ramp and arrestor gears are designed into the ship. The changes if done in the design phase should cost about $100 million per ship, which is peanuts when you think about having 4 more aircraft carriers.
IN is anyway getting LCA N mk2, and it is getting the LHD's. These ships will easily last into 2060. The Chinese navy in 2030-40 will be larger than the USN, Having more CVL (light) will help us control the Indian Ocean and create zones of deterrence all over the Indian Ocean.

How do you plan on landing the aircraft without VTOL.

 

[IndianHawk]

One thing that the IN should look at is if it is possible to make changes to these LHD's to fly the LCA N mk2 off of them. Since they are in the design phase, it should be possible. Turkey, Italy, Portugal, and Japan are all putting F35B's on their LHD's. F35B's are too expensive, so the LCA N mk2 should be possible. the Italian LHD has a flight deck of 230 meters which should be enough for the LCA N to land and take off if an angled flight deck, jump ramp and arrestor gears are designed into the ship. The changes if done in the design phase should cost about $100 million per ship, which is peanuts when you think about having 4 more aircraft carriers.
IN is anyway getting LCA N mk2, and it is getting the LHD's. These ships will easily last into 2060. The Chinese navy in 2030-40 will be larger than the USN, Having more CVL (light) will help us control the Indian Ocean and create zones of deterrence all over the Indian Ocean.

India has Andaman and lakshdweep as permanent aircraft carriers. Base a few sq on these islands of nlca armed with bramhos along with some su30. And we have full control over ocean surface as far as 2000km from these islands.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

 

[ezsasa]

One thing that the IN should look at is if it is possible to make changes to these LHD's to fly the LCA N mk2 off of them. Since they are in the design phase, it should be possible. Turkey, Italy, Portugal, and Japan are all putting F35B's on their LHD's. F35B's are too expensive, so the LCA N mk2 should be possible. the Italian LHD has a flight deck of 230 meters which should be enough for the LCA N to land and take off if an angled flight deck, jump ramp and arrestor gears are designed into the ship. The changes if done in the design phase should cost about $100 million per ship, which is peanuts when you think about having 4 more aircraft carriers.
IN is anyway getting LCA N mk2, and it is getting the LHD's. These ships will easily last into 2060. The Chinese navy in 2030-40 will be larger than the USN, Having more CVL (light) will help us control the Indian Ocean and create zones of deterrence all over the Indian Ocean.

LHD is primarily a troop insertion carrier, while aircraft carrier is not.

Both have their place in the naval doctrine.

For now LHD may not make sense.in the eventuality of China starts to focus south of SCS, India needs to be prepared.

 

[Thrishul]

How do you plan on landing the aircraft without VTOL.

As I quoted, arrestor gears. The old Vikrant, which was only 210 meters and 19000 tons, but she had the space for arrestor gears.

 

[Thrishul]

India has Andaman and lakshdweep as permanent aircraft carriers. Base a few sq on these islands of nlca armed with bramhos along with some su30. And we have full control over ocean surface as far as 2000km from these islands.

Sent from my C103 using Tapatalk

If India has 6 or 7 aircraft carriers, we can have 3 carrier battle groups to blockade the Pakistani coast while forcing the PAF to deploy multiple squadrons on the coast freeing the border for the IAF to take action. While they are doing this one battle group can blockade the southern approaches to the Indian Navy while Andamans blockade the straits of Malacca.
Want to take out an airfield, saturation missile strike will do it.
To take out a CV, you have to find it, then ensure your missiles get past the integrated defense of multiple destroyers and frigates and the CV's own CIWS. While ensuring your attacking ships/ submarines/ aircraft survive the onslaught of the CBG's own ASW, SAM, and fighter defenses.
Carriers give us options and unpredictability. Airbases are fixed and can always be put out of commission.

 

[Thrishul]

LHD is primarily a troop insertion carrier, while aircraft carrier is not.

Both have their place in the naval doctrine.

For now LHD may not make sense.in the eventuality of China starts to focus south of SCS, India needs to be prepared.

Even china is developing VSTOL aircraft for their LHD's. The US has 10 LHD's that have harriers and F35B's, while Japan, Italy, Turkey and Portugal are all getting F35B's on their LHD's.

 

[IndianHawk]

If India has 6 or 7 aircraft carriers, we can have 3 carrier battle groups to blockade the Pakistani coast while forcing the PAF to deploy multiple squadrons on the coast freeing the border for the IAF to take action. While they are doing this one battle group can blockade the southern approaches to the Indian Navy while Andamans blockade the straits of Malacca.
Want to take out an airfield, saturation missile strike will do it.
To take out a CV, you have to find it, then ensure your missiles get past the integrated defense of multiple destroyers and frigates and the CV's own CIWS. While ensuring your attacking ships/ submarines/ aircraft survive the onslaught of the CBG's own ASW, SAM, and fighter defenses.
Carriers give us options and unpredictability. Airbases are fixed and can always be put out of commission.

Yup all these things also mean that a carrier battle group is freaking expensive.

Look at ins Vikrant itself. It is costing 2.5 Billion $ to build. Then 40 jets for it will cots cool 10 billion $ and then battle ground destroyer / frigate / submarine have to provided for it each costing upwards a Billion $ except for maybe small Frigate. Then there are operational expenses.

Finding and hitting CV will be much easier in future as there will be many more military satellite in space searching ocean day and night.

Also inexpensive drones will scout for CV over vast ocean rather than manned aircraft of today .

And CV face threat of hypersonic missile like bramhos 2.



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[Thrishul]

The IN is getting LHD's and MCA-N. That is a fact. The IN will have to have escorts for the LHD's which will not have strike capabilities of its own apart from helicopters that have a short range. For power projection, it makes sense to have the MCA-N, which the IN is funding and buying on the LHD's which the IN is buying. Might as well mate them both and make them even more potent.

 

[Filtercoffee]

A right choice with EMALS and a great landing system will be great for the MCA/LCA - N. Any updates on choice of LHD?

 

[Thrishul]

A right choice with EMALS and a great landing system will be great for the MCA/LCA - N. Any updates on choice of LHD?

Not yet, the Juan Carlos and Mistal seemed to be in top contention, but with the Italian LHD taking only 15 months to float, I am sure the IN brass are looking closely at it.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

The IN is getting LHD's and MCA-N. That is a fact. The IN will have to have escorts for the LHD's which will not have strike capabilities of its own apart from helicopters that have a short range. For power projection, it makes sense to have the MCA-N, which the IN is funding and buying on the LHD's which the IN is buying. Might as well mate them both and make them even more potent.

Why do people get a boner for pocket carriers is something I can never understand. LHD is meant for humanitarian and disaster relief as well as amphibious ops. In peacetime, LHD would be preoccupied either exercising HADR and amphibious ops or performing HADR ops. These ops require a large fleet of helicopters, not NLCA.

LHD can also be used as a centerpiece for powerful Anti-Submarine Warfare task-forces.

Now assuming we use LHD as carriers, will they be able to establish sea-control against much larger carriers of PLAN or maybe USN? No. Will the limited space aboard the LHD afford enough flexibility to allow a high sortie generation rate? Most certainly not. Does the Indian Navy not have much bigger carriers for purposes of sea control and to shadow PLAN carrier fleets when they arrive in Indian ocean after 2030? They do have much bigger carriers to take on PLAN. So why-oh-why would you divert these LHD from their primary roles in ASW, HADR and amphibious ops to that of a limited fleet defence pocket carrier? There is absolutely no reason for that.