Nuvneet Kundu
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2016
- Messages
- 1,459
- Likes
- 2,613
We can sell it to Vietnam and achieve the same goal. Not selling to Philippines doesn't bottleneck any of our plans against China. The growing Chinese influence in Philippines is at the expense of US, and not at the expense of Indian interests. If India does anything to defend Philippines it is digging its own grave. It's like giving milk to a snake that has been biting you since decades. All Mizo and Naga Christian terrorists are indoctrinated and trained by missionaries launched from Philippines, they go back to Philippines to receive weapons training. All of this at the best of the US, to open a new front against India to keep India unsettled from all sides.We should sell Brahmos as well as Extended version of LRSAM with a range of more than 150 KM. Chinese planes shall literally piss and shall not be able to come close. Neither chinese ship can enter into 300 KM area of Philippines shore.
We can sell this to Philippines and in return we may ask them to contain that missionary activity aimed against India. When there are 2 enimies, we must focus against the stronger one? What say?We can sell it to Vietnam and achieve the same goal. Not selling to Philippines doesn't bottleneck any of our plans against China. The growing Chinese influence in Philippines is at the expense of US, and not at the expense of Indian interests. If India does anything to defend Philippines it is digging its own grave. It's like giving milk to a snake that has been biting you since decades. All Mizo and Naga Christian terrorists are indoctrinated and trained by missionaries launched from Philippines, they go back to Philippines to receive weapons training. All of this at the best of the US, to open a new front against India to keep India unsettled from all sides.
Aren't you concerned about that little detail, @HariPrasad-1 sir?
Disagree. We have Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, Mongolia (recently we signed a deal to set up massive Amul milk processing factories here) on our side. Philippines is an ideological state that will never give up its fanaticism. They will take all our military help then they can continue to route the missionary funding through other channels and feign ignorance, and we wont even be able to pin the blame on them. If that happens, can we take the missiles back? You can't ask a Christian to stop being Christian. And a big part of being Christian requires them to do missionary work. Plus, it's not just about state sponsored churches. There are some US sponsored 'non-state actors' in Philippines who will never stop, even if their nation tries to stop them. They are just like LeT and JuD are supported by the US in Pakistan.We can sell this to Philippines and in return we may ask them to contain that missionary activity aimed against India. When there are 2 enimies, we must focus against the stronger one? What say?
Disagree. We have Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, Mongolia (recently we signed a deal to set up massive Amul milk processing factories here) on our side. Philippines is an ideological state that will never give up its fanaticism. They can route the missionary funding through other channels or use paid agents in Indian media to make claims about 'Christian persecution in India', and we wont even be able to pin the blame on them. You can't ask a Christian to stop being Christian. And a big part of being Christian requires them to do missionary work. Plus, it's not just about state sponsored churches. There are some US sponsored 'non-state actors' in Philippines who will never stop, even if their nation tries to stop them. They are just like LeT and JuD are supported by the US in Pakistan.
Your willingness to give top of the line weapons to enemy states indicates a lack of understanding about the definition of an enemy. It's not just about Philippines. If you give them missiles, please consider how the status quo will be changed. It will basically be like giving a helping hand to extend American grip over the ASEAN nation. Is that what you want to do? You want to fight with China in a way that defends an American colony, why? America is our friend? It's like axing your own leg. It's a win win for American interests since their colony is saved by Indian weapons, and China and India hurt themselves by fighting against each other. We should find a way to fight with China in a way that no other hostile bloc can derive benefit from it.
This is a clash of civilizations where each one is trying to grow its influence and engulf the other. One is the Hindu civilization, represented by India, one is Han civilization represented by China and other is Christian civilization represented collectively by US and Philippines. In this context each civilization is an independent player and has its own interests. We should fight with China but not in a way that allows another civilization to gain influence at our expense. We can mess up China anyway if we have military alliance with 7 other nations (Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Russia, Mongolia). The alliances that we make should be temporary tactical groupings to impede the influence of other at the same time ensuring that we don't allow any other bloc to grow stronger. Where as if we follow your formula, we are impeding China, we are losing our tech and money, and we are allowing the Christian civilization to grow its influence. A and B can get together to impede C. But the grouping should never be such that A and B fight with each other and C gets the benefits of that conflict. C is not necessarily your friend.
If Philippines gets consumed by China then US loses all influence in those constellation of island nations of ASEAN. That prevents them from threatening us, militarily and ideologically. Also, the more countries that America loses influence over, the more important India becomes important for the US because of 'demand-supply' paradigm.
Please check Page #1 of this thread I have added some citations to Philippine activities. Philippines is basically a Christian version of Pakistan. No difference.Ok I do not have much information and knowledge in the area you stated. I e. missionary support through Philippines. I will think over it but one thing is sure. We need to encircle china like what they are trying to do by string of pearls.
Please check Page #1 of this thread I have added some citations to Philippine activities. Philippines is basically a Christian version of Pakistan. No difference.
"We need to encircle China"
I agree with this. There are 11 nations neighboring China. I am in favor of giving weapons and making military alliances with 10 of them but not Philippines. It is an American colony and the American presence in Asia has been to the detriment of Indian interests. They still have a military base in Diego Garcia. Is that a friendly gesture? no sir, it is to be used as a launch pad against India in case India becomes disobedient (ex : we do another nuke test or attack Pakistan). It is in our interest to get America out of Asia as soon as possible, be it Afghanistan or Philippines. Their presence has only brought instability for us. In this case, just sit back and allow China to throw Americans out of Philippines.
Whatever quarrel we have with China, we have the capability to defeat them ourselves with 10 nations. But just to get some temporary satisfaction, we can't give weapons to our other enemy. In this case 'the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy'.
China is not a potential enemy, it is already our current enemy and will always be our enemy. Two swords cannot remain in one sheath so we will always be at clashes with China. That doesn't mean that US is our friend. It has hurt us more than China has. Every single war that Pakistan has fought with India were actively and deliberately financed and supplied by US in all ways possible (intel, weapons, ammo, propaganda, diplomacy). It's not Pakistan who independently decided to hit India in 1965, it was the US who told them to hit us to weaken us since we were a Soviet ally. They gave them latest Patton tanks with all high tech weaponry. They may claim that Pakistan did the attack on their own, that is just to save their own ass. It was the US who sent their task force 74 to nuke us in 1971. It was the US who assassinated our nuclear scientists and space research missions. US got Homi Bhabha assassinated to stall our strategic weapons program. It was US who gave nuclear weapons to Pakistan through the A Q Khan network, and when found they claimed that A Q Khan stole it. In reality it was a Saudi funded project sponsored by US and facilitated by China to allow Pakistan to have a 'sunni bomb' because a stable Pakistan was necessity of US to defeat Soviet. It was the US who imposed sanctions on India after our Pokhran tests. It was the US who gave 4 months worth of fighting material to Pakistan and asked them to invade Kargil to teach Vajpayee a lesson for doing Pokhran.Ok It may not be a friendly gesture but I know one thing. American army do not intrude in Indian territory. They have not grabbed our land. They have not stopped our water illegally. China is our potential enemy and we must not Hesitate to use all possible means to contain china. If we give weapons to Philippines, we can use our influence to stop help to missionaries.
China is not a potential enemy, it is our current enemy and will always be our enemy. Two swords cannot remain in one sheath so we will always be at clashes with China. That doesn't mean that US is our friend. It has hurt us more than China has. Every single war that Pakistan has fought with India were actively and deliberately financed and supplied by US. It's not Pakistan who independently decided to hit India in 1965, it was the US who told them to hit us to weaken us since we were a Soviet ally. They gave them latest Patton tanks with all high tech weaponry. They may claim that Pakistan did the attack on their own, that is just to save their own ass. It was the US who sent their task force 74 to nuke us in 1971. It was the US who assassinated our nuclear scientists and space research missions. US got Homi Bhabha assassinated to stall our strategic weapons program. It was US who gave nuclear weapons to Pakistan through the A Q Khan network, and when found they claimed that A Q Khan stole it. In reality it was a Saudi funded project sponsored by US and facilitated by China to allow Pakistan to have a 'sunni bomb' because a stable Pakistan was necessity of US to defeat Soviet. It was the US who imposed sanctions on India after our Pokhran tests. It was the US who gave 4 months worth of fighting material to Pakistan and asked them to invade Kargil to teach Vajpayee a lesson for doing Pokhran.
China may be our enemy but that doesn't make America our friend. They are both our enemies. An entity can have two enemies, nothing unnatural about that. There's no cognitive dissonance in this fact.
What world are you living in?
Can't blame him entirely; most media in india and elsewhere in so called progressive/liberal countries is pro-USA. So...What world are you living in?
I can understand if someone's opinions are pro-US but there is no excuse for one's facts to be pro-US. Facts are facts, they don't have a 'creative liberty' clause. How can someone not know about US aggression against India during 1971? It's basic history. It bewilders me. Opinions by virtue of being subjective have a wider scope of interpretation based on the interpreter's liberty but they can't diverge away from the reality so much that they begin to contradict hard facts.Can't blame him entirely; most media in india and elsewhere in so called progressive/liberal countries is pro-USA. So...
Well said. Modi said the same thing when he had gone to the US "China and India are capable of sorting out our differences mutually, we don't need third party mediation". The US apparently wanted to set up military bases inside India with the excuse of 'countering China'. They think we are fools@no smoking ,
both china and India are growing with fast rate , and war between (India & china ) or (China -japan ) would be beneficial for western countries .................stop this war mongering & do not interfere in Kashmir .
Please share some additional details around it.It's not Pakistan who independently decided to hit India in 1965, it was the US who told them to hit us to weaken us since we were a Soviet ally.
Please share some citations or books/articles/documentaries that say so.It was the US who assassinated our nuclear scientists and space research missions. US got Homi Bhabha assassinated to stall our strategic weapons program.
This intrigues me beyond measure. If this is true, why Clinton Administration advised Nawaz Sharif to withdraw ? It was considered to be a diplomatic masterstroke/coup by Indian External Affairs mandarins.It was the US who gave 4 months worth of fighting material to Pakistan and asked them to invade Kargil to teach Vajpayee a lesson for doing Pokhran.
Philippines is under USA's nuclear umbrella they don't need help from India. China is testing USA and its allies.Disagree. We have Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, Mongolia (recently we signed a deal to set up massive Amul milk processing factories here) on our side. Philippines is an ideological state that will never give up its fanaticism. They will take all our military help then they can continue to route the missionary funding through other channels and feign ignorance, and we wont even be able to pin the blame on them. If that happens, can we take the missiles back? You can't ask a Christian to stop being Christian. And a big part of being Christian requires them to do missionary work. Plus, it's not just about state sponsored churches. There are some US sponsored 'non-state actors' in Philippines who will never stop, even if their nation tries to stop them. They are just like LeT and JuD are supported by the US in Pakistan.
Your willingness to give top of the line weapons to enemy states indicates a lack of understanding about the definition of an enemy. It's not just about Philippines. If you give them missiles, please consider how the status quo will be changed. It will basically be like helping America to extend their presence in the ASEAN nation. Is that what you want to do? You want to fight with China in a way that defends an American colony, why? America is our friend? It's like axing your own leg. It's a win win for American interests since their colony is saved by Indian weapons, and China and India hurt themselves by fighting against each other. We should find a way to fight with China surgically and not give influence to our third enemy due to emotion.
This is a clash of civilizations where each one is trying to grow its influence and engulf the other. One is the Hindu civilization, represented by India, one is Han civilization represented by China and other is Christian civilization represented collectively by US and Philippines. In this context each civilization is an independent player and has its own interests. We should fight with China but not in a way that allows another civilization to gain influence at our expense. We can mess up China anyway if we have military alliance with 7 other nations (Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Russia, Mongolia). The alliances that we make should be temporary tactical groupings to impede the influence of other at the same time ensuring that we don't allow any other bloc to grow stronger. Where as if we follow your formula, we are impeding China, we are losing our tech and money, and we are allowing the Christian civilization to grow its influence. A and B can get together to impede C. But the grouping should never be such that A and B fight with each other and C gets the benefits of that conflict. C is not necessarily your friend.
If Philippines gets consumed by China then US loses all influence in those constellation of island nations of ASEAN. That prevents them from threatening us, militarily and ideologically. Also, the more countries that America loses influence over, the more important India becomes important for the US because of 'demand-supply' paradigm. Not all influence that China gains is against India interests. In this case, it is in our interest to let China gain influence in Philippines and erode American presence there.
No one dreaming about India vs China war here except Indian members here.@no smoking ,
both china and India are growing with fast rate , and war between (India & china ) or (China -japan ) would be beneficial for western countries .................stop this war mongering & do not interfere in Kashmir .