Partition & Reunification

[S.A.T.A]

The continued undermining of Pakistan's national morale,not to mention their national institution,could perhaps even lead to reunification with India.considering the way Many Pakistanis have retained their Indian cultural moorings,and what with many of the present gen taking to popular Indian culture like duck to water,they probably already regret parting ways.

National identity and international respect is not something that is easy to garner,esp for a people who were, atleast once upon a time,well used to be associated with a remarkable civilization called India/Hindustan.

Identity and honour is missed only when its lost..........

 

[tarunraju]

If there is a situation similar to the German reunification (actually there is, Pakistan is your 'East Germany' here), then I am more than willing for a reunited India, even if the reunited state gets a new name and identity (neither India nor Pakistan). We will then be able to truly rule and dominate non-oriental Asia, and end up with better stakes at the African economic conquest.

 

[S.A.T.A]

Why Change the name,India will be an apt national name for such a multi cultural nation state.

 

[tharikiran]

Over the last 50 years Pakistan has changed a lot. There is no point being nostalgic.
It's like the Ambani brothers.You want different things. You accept the facts. You move on.The twain shall never meet. Like railway tracks at the most.

I as an Indian don't want to inherit taliban nor the Islamic radicalization.

I believe we are different and I am ok with that.Pakistan can never be a democracy as long as it has it's army. The news doing the rounds now is new evidence of ISI supporting Pakistani taliban. US wanting to attack Quetta.

Who is the PAK army fighting then ?

 

[Rahul Singh]

Change 'India' to 'Bharat'. After all it's the only indigenous available.

 

[tarunraju]

Why Change the name,India will be an apt national name for such a multi cultural nation state.

Somehow generations of Pakistanis have grown to not like the name 'India' or anything to do with it. The feeling is mutual. What a reunited India does is it benefits not only the people of Pakistan (who can then move to any part of the country for work, education, and to settle permanently, but it will also benefit Indian Muslims a great deal. All taboos narrow-minded Hindus attach to the Muslims will be crushed, 35~40% of the country will be Muslim, and they will have greater representation in the democracy, and better sustenance of of their culture and religion.

 

[tharikiran]

Somehow generations of Pakistanis have grown to not like the name 'India' or anything to do with it. The feeling is mutual. What a reunited India does is it benefits not only the people of Pakistan (who can then move to any part of the country for work, education, and to settle permanently, but it will also benefit Indian Muslims a great deal. All taboos narrow-minded Hindus attach to the Muslims will be crushed, 35~40% of the country will be Muslim, and they will have greater representation in the democracy, and better sustenance of of their culture and religion.

Are you saying that Indian Muslims don't have proper representation in India
or sustenance of their culture and religion.
I beg to differ from you.You are from Hyderabad . you should have known better.It's a delusion that reunited India will be beneficial.How will it remove taboos and narrow mindedness attached to the Muslims ? Care to explain.

Why would one want to inherit all the chaos Pakistan is in.Islamic radicalization has taken control of the whole of pakistan. Even cities are not safe anymore. Why would I want all of India to have that.
NO-WAY

Nor do I want to inherit its debt. Every time we have trusted Pakistan, they have tried to stab us in the back.We gave the land back we won in wars. We should have never been that kind and look what we get- hired terrorists in kashmir.

 

[F-14]

Tarun give me your dispostion on "Narrow Minded" Hindus

 

[Sabir]

Are you saying that Indian Muslims don't have proper representation in India
or sustenance of their culture and religion.
I beg to differ from you.You are from Hyderabad . you should have known better.It's a delusion that reunited India will be beneficial.How will it remove taboos and narrow mindedness attached to the Muslims ? Care to explain.

Why would one want to inherit all the chaos Pakistan is in.Islamic radicalization has taken control of the whole of pakistan. Even cities are not safe anymore. Why would I want all of India to have that.
NO-WAY

Nor do I want to inherit its debt. Every time we have trusted Pakistan, they have tried to stab us in the back.We gave the land back we won in wars. We should have never been that kind and look what we get- hired terrorists in kashmir.

yes, in reunition India will loose more....most threatening is Radical Islamists in pakistan will have easy access to Indian muslims to spread their ideology. Beaware of that.

 

[S.A.T.A]

A national identity cannot be invented,Pakistanis would know this better than anyone else.The Moniker India is a well established historical identity and is also sufficiently secular and non representative.Infact the only other alternative would Hindustan,a political expression used by the Delhi sultanates,Mughals, Marathas and pretty much everybody else in between during the last millenia or so.

Ofcourse any reunification would have to be peaceful and with certain amount of voluntarism involved.Partition of India was not a result of a socio-cultural discourse runing through centuries,it was deliberate political act resulting from political misgivings that started only a few years before complete independence.

Any reunification will also be a political act,the general population tend to be more or less prepared or indifferent to the change.

Like i mentioned somewhere else,sons of Bharata will come together again.

 

[tharikiran]

^^^ There are no sons of BHARATA in Pakistan.There are only gun totting mullahs.
It's been more than 50 years guys. The demographics have changed. It's a completely different world altogether.I don't think our politicians are as delusional as we are in.
You have a part of Pakistan called NWFP which doesn't even want to be ruled by Pakistan and we are talking about reunification.

 

[tarunraju]

Tarun give me your dispostion on "Narrow Minded" Hindus

I am not generalising Hindus as narrow-minded, but rather Hindus who attach taboos to Muslims, look at them with contempt and paranoia, actively discriminate against them (in jobs, elections, etc.), and who even to call them "pakistanis", as Narrow minded. If you think such Hindus don't exist, and that Muslims in India don't have to keep up with a harsh majority, you're obviously not living in this country/never lived here.

 

[Sabir]

yes...honestly saying there are still some Hindus who have some baseless paronia about Muslims and there are Muslims who have the same against Hindus.....There are Hindus complaining that Muslims are given unnecessary privileges and Muslims complaining about less opportunity to them

You just have to live it on time...bet on co-existence and total economic development....these things will be disappeared

Adding Muslims of Pakistan who have no clue about co-existence (at least in present generation) will serve no purpose.

Yes, Partition was a mistake.....but reunification after 60-70 years (when two nations have already walked long distances in their chosen paths) will be a bigger mistake

 

[natarajan]

yes sabir,we dont need fanatics here as it will increase further complication and we need not worry about their state as they thought of prospering by cutting india into two pieces (1947) and now they are in receiving end and they deserve it

 

[tarunraju]

Are you saying that Indian Muslims don't have proper representation in India
or sustenance of their culture and religion.
I beg to differ from you.You are from Hyderabad . you should have known better.It's a delusion that reunited India will be beneficial.How will it remove taboos and narrow mindedness attached to the Muslims ? Care to explain.

Why would one want to inherit all the chaos Pakistan is in.Islamic radicalization has taken control of the whole of pakistan. Even cities are not safe anymore. Why would I want all of India to have that.
NO-WAY

Nor do I want to inherit its debt. Every time we have trusted Pakistan, they have tried to stab us in the back.We gave the land back we won in wars. We should have never been that kind and look what we get- hired terrorists in kashmir.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You do the homework on how our state Assembly and national Parliament don't have Muslim representation proportional to the population of Muslims. Even in Hyderabad, where you have a very sizeable Muslim population, they are under-represented in the Municipal Corporation.

The only thing that is breeding radical-fundamentalism of Islam in Pakistan (or even here) is lack of opportunity to the youth, improper educational infrastructure, and everything that goes with it. When you eliminate "India and Pakistan" for a reunited state (call it what you want to), radicals in India and Pakistan run out of enemies. With 30~40% population, they can easily eliminate all social disparity, and live peacefully.

The chaos and confusion in Pakistan, and its disparity with India is exactly what prevailed between East and West Germany. Sure, the reunification caused the West German economy to deplete a little, and caused mass-migrations, but today, the country is one of the most powerful economies, and certainly the most powerful and wealthy country in continental Europe.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Tarun it is hard to imagine Pakistanis sharing this utopian concept.

 

[S.A.T.A]

^^^ There are no sons of BHARATA in Pakistan.There are only gun totting mullahs.
It's been more than 50 years guys. The demographics have changed. It's a completely different world altogether.I don't think our politicians are as delusional as we are in.
You have a part of Pakistan called NWFP which doesn't even want to be ruled by Pakistan and we are talking about reunification.

There are two fundamental elements that form the crux of the Pakistani society.The Punjabis/sindhis forming the Indic element and the Pashtuns/Baluchis forming the Iranian-Persian element.The difference is not just that they represent different linguistic group,but an entirely different socio-cultural-historical topography.

Baluchis and the Pathans have always been the most conservative group in Pakistani society largely because they existed in a completely different civilizational sphere with very little interaction with the subcontinents dominant Indo-Islamic culture.Punjab and Sindh have always been on this side of the cultural divide and until the partition also comprised a large population of Hindus and sikhs,which for centuries negated any non Indic conservatism.

Despite all the LET's,Punjabis and Sindhis are no different from the rest of the Muslim population in India,as far as socio-cultural orientation goes and the substantial society itself is mostly moderate and non conservative

 

[K Factor]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You do the homework on how our state Assembly and national Parliament don't have Muslim representation proportional to the population of Muslims. Even in Hyderabad, where you have a very sizeable Muslim population, they are under-represented in the Municipal Corporation.

Your entire concept is flawed, and you seem to be confused as to the secular nature of our country.

It does not always take a muslim to represent the muslim people in the populace. If that is so, then we have to divide constituencies on the basis of religion, which is stupid and impractical. If a politician/candidate works for his constituency, it does not matter what his religion is.

 

[tharikiran]

With 30~40% population, they can easily eliminate all social disparity, and live peacefully.

Tarun, assuming this will solve is wrong.That's all I have to say.Try to understand Pakistani psychi. Pakistan is not what it was 50 years ago. You can't compare Germany with India and Pakistan. They are worlds apart.I don't think it would be appropriate to get into a debate on muslim representation in this thread.Hope you will understand. There are n number of reasons for that.

 

[tarunraju]

Tarun it is hard to imagine Pakistanis sharing this utopian concept.

It is Utopian, but perhaps an internet forum is the only place where you can share seemingly-Utopian ideas. For Pakistan, a vision of a 'peaceful, powerful, and progressive Pakistan' in 1947 was Utopian enough. The sh*t did hit the fan in 2009, didn't it? They certainly don't stand to lose anything with reunification. We don't either, and that's the point. Chaos, mass-migration, economic depletion are just short-term fear, and it did exist in Germany. When we do overcome that, we're on track for the fruition of the reunification, we end up being part of a bigger country, with larger workforce, greater resources, and the advantage of democracy. We can certainly take a shot at dominating this part of the continent, and make the most out of African development.