Pakistan air force getting 36 J 10 fighters

[The Shrike]

Relax. We won't be buying any of the Rafales. That 114 is going to give us the limelight enough to finish the Tejas Mk2s in time. If we didn't do MRFA drama, then the arms lobby will pay off the MoD babus & top air marshals to declare Tejas a failure and re-start a new tender from scratch.

Trust the current government. They are not as foolish as we think of them.

We need more Rafales fast. And we need to upgrade our MKIs ASAP. And need to induct as many Tejas as we can build. All at the same time.

 

[Lonewolf]

We need more Rafales fast. And we need to upgrade our MKIs ASAP. And need to induct as many Tejas as we can build. All at the same time.

Well , that's our requirement with or without paf getting j10c .

J10c have a payload of 5600 kg , while our tejas have already shown 4000 kg+ payload already .
And mk2 will give 6.5 ton of payload , so no need to panic , and 25 jet isn't something that will change dynamic completely

 

[JBH22]

Well , that's our requirement with or without paf getting j10c .

J10c have a payload of 5600 kg , while our tejas have already shown 4000 kg+ payload already .
And mk2 will give 6.5 ton of payload , so no need to panic , and 25 jet isn't something that will change dynamic completely

The J10C is a reality and will be transferred any time. Our MK2 still on drawing boards and IAF setting incredible standard to kill that project.
Mk1a well less said about it the better it is. Only when the first production unit out of 83orders then only I will believe.

 

[Lonewolf]

The J10C is a reality and will be transferred any time. Our MK2 still on drawing boards and IAF setting incredible standard to kill that project.
Mk1a well less said about it the better it is. Only when the first production unit out of 83orders then only I will believe.

Show me proof of mk2 being killed ??

 

[shiphone]

the 12.5 tons wet thrust (AL31FN serial1) powered J10/10A achieved an useful external payload 6600kg.
Normal take off Weight 12.4ton(including 2 PL-8 missile), MTOW: around 18.8 tons...the meaningful Normal takeoff T/W is little over 1.

the J10C has 1 ton more thrust with (Al31FN serial3 and WS-10B3)...so?

----------------------
BTW, FC-1/JF-17 is powered by a 8.7 ton(wet, combat mode) class engine, the Normal take off Weight : 9.1 ton (including 2 PL-5 missiles)...the MTOW is around 13.5 tons with the useful external payload 4600kg... Normal takeoff T/W : 0.956...

I think you can do your own maths on the incredible Tajas(especially the so called MK2) here.

a fighter is not a transporter...LOL

 

[indiatester]

J10 is not even as good as F-16's that pakis have.
I wonder why they are wasting their money in buying something inferior.

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...nse-to-india-s-rafale-jets-1893852-2021-12-29

Pakistan confirms raising squadron of Chinese J-10C in response to India's Rafale jets
The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale.


Ankit Kumar New DelhiDecember 29, 2021UPDATED: December 30, 2021 00:33 IST

File photo of J-10C fighter jets | Getty Images

Putting the speculations to rest, the government of Pakistan has confirmed the acquisition of at least 25 Chinese J-10C fighter jets for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Pakistan's interior minister Sheikh Rashid told reporters in Rawalpindi on Wednesday that a squadron of 25 China-made jets would participate in a fly-past on 23 March. The minister touted the Chinese jets as "an answer to India's Rafale jets".



However, the minister misarticulated the name of the jets repeatedly during his interaction, referring to the jets as "Chinese JS-10". While rumours of Pakistan acquiring Chinese jets have been doing rounds for a long time, a big question mark remains over the claims of the Chinese jets competence against the advanced French Rafale.

Although China has been using the J-10C multirole fighter aircraft to replace its much older J-7E fighters at the People's Liberation Army Air Force's (PLAAF's) brigades, it relied on its much-advanced J-20 stealth jets when it came to monitoring of the crucial Taiwan Strait and East China Sea.






The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale. Commentary in Chinese state media often looks to place the mid-sized fighter jet closer to the Rafale but Rafale's integrated architecture, superior sensors and overall combat capabilities set it apart.

With a distinct advantage in thrust and superior short-range missile, Rafale scores over the J-10C with better kill probability during Within Visual Range (WVR) combat. The combination of RBE2 AESA radar with the Meteor missile in Rafale provides a distinct advantage in the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat as well. Rafale's electronic warfare suite is also believed to be the most capable in its class.


The J-10C jets have been sighted during the China-Pakistan joint air exercises recently. Weeks before the formal announcements, the J-10C model was spotted in the pictures of the Pakistan Air Force Chief's office.

The Imran Khan Government's intentions to acquire the Chinese jets have already been questioned by the opposition. "I don't think the J-10C is as good as the Rafale also. We should have invested this money in building Project Azm and enhancing JF-17 capabilities," Dr Afnan Ullah Khan had posted on Twitter, earlier this month.

 

[Jimih]

 

[India Super Power]

the 12.5 tons wet thrust (AL31FN serial1) powered J10/10A achieved a useful external payload 6600kg.
Normal take off Weight 12.4ton(including 2 PL-8 missile), MTOW: around 18.8 tons...the meaningful Normal takeoff T/W is little over 1.

the J10C has 1 ton more thrust with (Al31FN serial3 and WS-10B3)...so?

----------------------
BTW, FC-1/JF-17 is powered by a 8.7 ton(wet, combat mode) class engine, the Normal take off Weight : 9.1 ton (including 2 PL-5 missiles)...the MTOW is around 13.5 tons with useful external payload 4600kg (the internal fuel would be a little reduced)... Normal takeoff T/W : 0.956...

I think you can do your own maths on the incredible Tajas(especially the so called MK2) here.

a fighter is not a transporter...LOL

Tejas mk1 and mk1a
Max takeoff weight: 13,500 kg (29,762 lb)
Fuel capacity: 2,458 kg (5,419 lb) internal; 2 × 1,200 l (260 imp gal; 320 US gal), 800 l (180 imp gal; 210 US gal) drop tank inboard, 725 l (159 imp gal; 192 US gal) drop tank under fuselage
Payload: 5,300 kg (11,700 lb) external stores
--------------‐‐-----
Tejas mk2
Max takeoff weight: 17,500 kg (38,581 lb)
Fuel capacity: more than 3,400 kg (7,500 lb)
Payload: 6,500 kg (14,300 lb) external stores
----------------------
Rafale
Max takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (54,013 lb)
Fuel capacity: 4,700 kg (10,362 lb) internal for single-seater (C); 4,400 kg (9,700 lb) for two-seater (B)
Maximum fuel: (C): 16,550 l (4,370 US gal; 3,640 imp gal) (5,750 l (1,520 US gal; 1,260 imp gal) internal + 2,300 l (610 US gal; 510 imp gal) in 2x conformal tanks + 8,500 l (2,200 US gal; 1,900 imp gal) in 5 drop tanks)



Now u see whether j-10c is comparable to mk2 or not
Engine power in mk2 might be less but western engines provide continuous power low serviceability and better efficiency than Russian or Chinese

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

The J10C is a reality and will be transferred any time. Our MK2 still on drawing boards and IAF setting incredible standard to kill that project.
Mk1a well less said about it the better it is. Only when the first production unit out of 83orders then only I will believe.

It is surprising that you believe that IAF is trying to kill MK2. Didnt IAF chief accept CDR of Tejas MK2 just a few days back?

 

[fire starter]

J10 is not even as good as F-16's that pakis have.
I wonder why they are wasting their money in buying something inferior.

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...nse-to-india-s-rafale-jets-1893852-2021-12-29

Pakistan confirms raising squadron of Chinese J-10C in response to India's Rafale jets
The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale.


Ankit Kumar New DelhiDecember 29, 2021UPDATED: December 30, 2021 00:33 IST

View attachment 128625
File photo of J-10C fighter jets | Getty Images

Putting the speculations to rest, the government of Pakistan has confirmed the acquisition of at least 25 Chinese J-10C fighter jets for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Pakistan's interior minister Sheikh Rashid told reporters in Rawalpindi on Wednesday that a squadron of 25 China-made jets would participate in a fly-past on 23 March. The minister touted the Chinese jets as "an answer to India's Rafale jets".



However, the minister misarticulated the name of the jets repeatedly during his interaction, referring to the jets as "Chinese JS-10". While rumours of Pakistan acquiring Chinese jets have been doing rounds for a long time, a big question mark remains over the claims of the Chinese jets competence against the advanced French Rafale.

Although China has been using the J-10C multirole fighter aircraft to replace its much older J-7E fighters at the People's Liberation Army Air Force's (PLAAF's) brigades, it relied on its much-advanced J-20 stealth jets when it came to monitoring of the crucial Taiwan Strait and East China Sea.






The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale. Commentary in Chinese state media often looks to place the mid-sized fighter jet closer to the Rafale but Rafale's integrated architecture, superior sensors and overall combat capabilities set it apart.

With a distinct advantage in thrust and superior short-range missile, Rafale scores over the J-10C with better kill probability during Within Visual Range (WVR) combat. The combination of RBE2 AESA radar with the Meteor missile in Rafale provides a distinct advantage in the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat as well. Rafale's electronic warfare suite is also believed to be the most capable in its class.


The J-10C jets have been sighted during the China-Pakistan joint air exercises recently. Weeks before the formal announcements, the J-10C model was spotted in the pictures of the Pakistan Air Force Chief's office.

The Imran Khan Government's intentions to acquire the Chinese jets have already been questioned by the opposition. "I don't think the J-10C is as good as the Rafale also. We should have invested this money in building Project Azm and enhancing JF-17 capabilities," Dr Afnan Ullah Khan had posted on Twitter, earlier this month.

View attachment 128626

Poor porkis now they have to hide j10 shoot down in future as well.

 

[Vayuputra]

Are there any other sources than the clown Sheikh Rasheed that have corroborated this?

someone on this forum rightly said, pakistan is a very stable unstabale country.India is their bargain chip with china,

 

[Concard]

The Chinese concept of aid will be very different as they are more medieval in their thought, unlike the Western powers. CCP wants to implement a hardened old-China-style vassal system where their emperor is a god. This model of owner-vassal from the olden days will fall flat very soon.

All it takes is Chinese bullying of Pakistani jurnails - they are egomaniacs who will eventually resist CCP's diktat. One can never keep 2 snakes together.

The J-10 deal was conceptualized in 2008 during the last year of Pervez Musharraf. The J-10C has not been offered to anyone else; including the more capable Malaysian, Serbian, Azerbaijani, and Nigerian air forces who can actually pay commercial money to the Chinese. While Myanmar openly rejected the FC-1s and didn't even bother requesting for J-10s, Bangladesh instead is keen on getting jets that "No one in the neighborhood operates". Chances of them getting J-10 are next to none since Bangladeshis are now taking financing from India for importing other weapons.

*Note: Typhoons are at the fag end of their evolution and at this point, any sale is just a bonus. Don't be surprised if the British or Germans offer 10 Typhoons at throwaway prices to Bangladeshis, as these will not rattle anyone.

Think why. Even HAL that has just released the Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A is offering it to any country interested ranging from the American LIFT tender to Argentinians, to Malaysians, to the Philippines. This simply goes to show the trust they have in their own platforms.

_______

Turkey can't be compared to Pakistan because it is a NATO signatory. Their entire fighter fleet is American-made:

- F-16s (including the right to license manufacture them and make their spares with TAI)
- F-4 Phantoms
- F-5 Tiger IIs

These were outrightly purchased by the Turks during their more sensible days before they went full goat-humper mode under Erdogan. On the other hand, Pakistani F-16s were mostly jets acquired through aid or soft loans, except that one batch which was held due to the Pressler Amendment that the Pakistanis keep whining about. Pakistan would have never gotten 200 F-16s after the treatment they got during the War on Terror and USA's Afghanistan stay. Even the US does not dole out so much (Except for Israel which is a very different situation).

They don't have 200 F-16's. They have around 75 F-16's as of now at the end of 2021. Some of them are second handle purchased from Jordan. If my guess is right nearly 1/3rd of them are 30 years and older since they were given by USA in 1980's and 1990's. It is highly likely these jets cannot operate beyond 2035. The airframe can only last so long. Since only American missiles work on F-16's it will be a significant drain on their coffers. Each AAMRAM missile costs something like 30 crore INR and more for advanced versions.

In another thread I said before given their economic situation they can't rise their military budget above $15 billion until 2030 with 100% certainty. If their present situation persists for another 5 years then until 2035 they can't rise their budget above $15 billion. By 2035 if things go well for us we will have AMCA, MK2 and hopefully also ORCA. Then Pakistan will be forced to eat grass and increase their budget to procure new jets. This J-10C acquisition is also good for us. If there is any skirmish we will be able to determine it's RCS, it's vulnerabilities and it's performance. Since the Chinese have J-10 in good numbers we will be able to come up with better strategy and tactics against their high number of Jets.

 

[WolfPack86]

Pakistan buys Chengdu J-10 fighter jets from China
The rumor that has been going around for a couple of years has just been confirmed. Pakistan is acquiring more than 25 Chengdu J-10 «Vigorous Dragon» multirole fighters, to face India’s purchase of the Dassault Rafale.

The news was made public by Sheikh Rasheed Ahmad, Pakistan’s Interior Minister, during a public event. According to the Minister, the induction into service of the Chinese-origin fighter would begin as early as March 2022. In fact, according to the Minister, 25 J-10s are expected to flypast on March 23, as part of Pakistan’s celebration of that national festivity.

There is still no official confirmation of the number of units purchased, but reliable sources in Pakistan claim that 36 aircraft are involved, enough to equip two squadrons of 18 fighters each.

There are also no details yet on the model of the Vigorous Dragon purchased for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), but Minister Sheikh Rasheed also commented that the addition of the J-10s are a direct response to the purchase of the Rafale by the Indian Air Force (IAF), and that these aircraft are far superior to the French fighters. It can therefore be assumed that the squadron of aircraft purchased are the J-10C model, the latest and most modern version of this fighter currently in production.

The J-10C (or a derivative version of it adapted to the needs of the PAF) is a modern, agile and powerful 4.5 generation fighter. Equipped with an AESA active electronically scanning radar, powerful ECM, low RCS and a wide range of smart munitions at its disposal, it is in the same league as the Rafale acquired by India.

If the minister’s predictions come true the J-10C (or CE or CP)would be the first fighter aircraft in active service in the Pakistan Air Force to incorporate AESA radar technology, even before the JF-17 Block III, a domestic product. Or will we hear news of the new version of the Thunder soon?

Probably, as more funds become available, it should be followed by the purchase of a second J-10 squadron, and even a third, as the PAF’s re-equipment needs are great because it still has a large number of F-7 and Mirage ROSE fighters to replace. They could even end up replacing the 40+ of Lockheed Martin F-16s in service, if they are not upgraded in the short/medium term to the Viper variant.



Erratum: The first information I handled was of 1 squadron and 25 units acquired. But the minister’s correct quote would have been «»25 J-10 will participate in the parade. The first squadron will be in Pakistan (by then).» I thank the kindness of AEROSINT Division PSF who contacted me to bring me more precise data.

Pakistan buys Chengdu J-10 fighter jets from China

The rumor that has been going around for a couple of years has just been confirmed. Pakistan is acquiring more than 25 Chengdu J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" multirol

www.aviacionline.com

 

[Super Flanker]

I have strong doubts on this claim by drunkard Sheikh Rasheed.
I think PAF has indeed ordered 20-36 J-10C but they will arrive in batches of 4-6 with last of them arriving in 2023 instead of 25 arriving in just 2 months.

You never know exactly what these Chinese and Pakistanis are upto. 25 J-10 seems to be a low number. I guess these will be Ex-PLAAF J-10 which They will hand over from their Fleet. We don't know till date about the exact number of each type of Aircraft in service with Pakistan Airforce. They don't disclose the exact number of assets in their Inventory. I Feel like Pakistan will be buying more than 25 J-10 from china but for now they are saying only 25 will be bought. It's a Confusing Matter for me.

This is probably how Pakistan is explaining that its F-16 fighter jet inventory is intact

Pakistan had said it purchased 12 F-16As and 1 F-16B from Jordan, but in a 2014 image released by its military’s publicity wing ISPR, 2 F-16Bs can be seen.

theprint.in

 

[THESIS THORON]

You never know exactly what these Chinese and Pakistanis are upto. 25 J-10 seems to be a low number. I guess these will be Ex-PLAAF J-10 which They will hand over from their Fleet. We don't know till date about the exact number of each type of Aircraft in service with Pakistan Airforce. They don't disclose the exact number of assets in their Inventory. I Feel like Pakistan will be buying more than 25 J-10 from china but for now they are saying only 25 will be bought. It's a Confusing Matter for me.

This is probably how Pakistan is explaining that its F-16 fighter jet inventory is intact

Pakistan had said it purchased 12 F-16As and 1 F-16B from Jordan, but in a 2014 image released by its military’s publicity wing ISPR, 2 F-16Bs can be seen.

theprint.in

not buying, china can place more j10s and allow pakis to operate.

 

[Super Flanker]

not buying, china can place more j10s and allow pakis to operate.

Who knows bro. There is always a possibility that infact Pakistan has not bought these Aircrafts with actual Money(paisa dene ki aukhaad baaki bhi hai nahi) but China actually sending their own J-10s so that they can be used by Pakistan on their behalf. China can do many things to counter india. This is one such Possibility as such. Because Anyways Pakistan is a pet dog of China.

 

[Foxbat]

Pakistan Purchases Chinese Jets Based on Scrapped Israeli Lavi Fighter
Islamabad announces deal to buy 25 Chinese J-10 fighters, thought to be based on a plane whose production Israel canceled over 30 years ago

A Chinese J-10 fighter aircraft performs a flight during the International Army Games, last year.Credit: REUTERS/Maxim Shemetov

Haaretz

Jan. 5, 2022

More than three decades after Jerusalem scrapped plans to field its own domestically produced combat aircraft, Pakistan announced last week that it was purchasing a squadron of 25 Chinese J-10 jets widely believed to be based on the canceled Israeli Lavi fighter.


Source is an Israeli Newspaper: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/...d-on-scrapped-israeli-lavi-fighter-1.10510613

 

[space marine]

Pretty good fighter J10C will provide PAF good coverage in A2A.
Commonality with PLAAF has lots of advantages which will surely keep this fighter up to date.

 

[Super Flanker]

Pretty good fighter J10C will provide PAF good coverage in A2A.
Commonality with PLAAF has lots of advantages which will surely keep this fighter up to date.

It will be a good logistical choice for PAF as well. Whatever Weopons JF 17 will be able to use(Like SD-10/PL-12 Missile, PL-15 ,PL-10 ,PL-5E)the PAF will be able to use with the J-10.
-
Hence this Weopon commonality will be a Advantage in terms of Logistics. Overall a good platform choice for Pakistan Airforce.

 

[pankaj nema]

We should buy 36 more Rafales or else 50 more SU 30 mki and upgrade them
With the Best possible EW suites and Long range BVRAAMs