Pakistan air force getting 36 J 10 fighters

[IndianHawk]

agreed but radar change is the most important

That will come too but current bars can't be underestimated . It's a hybrid PESA which can act as an aesa when used in single mode. Plus it's monstrous in size and can act as a mini awacs by itself.

Btw su30mki will get GaN aesa for upgrade which will make its radar far more powerful then current Rafale and F35 radars both of which lack GaN components at the moment.

 

[Super Flanker]

Be pratctickal kand kdiscuss on topic easier to bash pak for u and induia for me but fact jwont change

Be practical?
Bro see ,please understand here ,no offense here but you need to improve your spellings a lot, you make so many Spelling mistakes in so many of your posts.

No offence ,I am not bashing you here but kindly try to not make spelling error, at times I don't understand what words you are even Writing.

J 10 in its category very deadly aircraf

I do accept that it's a good Aircraft in it's category though.

This is first jet with superior manuverability with canards paf getting

You don't even know what is the Definition of Super Manouverability, J-10 is a pretty decent Aircraft with pretty Decent Manouverability. I will accept that but it's not Super Manouverable.

Supermaneuverability is the capability of fighter aircraft to execute tactical maneuvers that are not possible with purely aerodynamic mechanisms. Such maneuvers can use controlled side-slipping and angles of attack beyond maximum lift.

if J-10 is indeed super Manouverable than you have to prove it.

And no o e knows which aesa it is using but far better than su 30 for suret

There is no evidence of that, these Chinese radars are mostly unproven till date.

J-10 will be using AESA and SU-30 MKI will be using PESA though for your information.

 

[The Shrike]

I wonder if they are getting these also financed. Because this package includes short-range anti-ship missiles for their Harbin Z-8 helicopters for ASW role from the Type 054A frigates as well.

Amazing how they manage to scrounge for money even when they can't touch their own central bank funds due to IMF conditions.

Problem will only increase for us in the coming years the Chinese defence industry matures and its foreign policy expands to giving significant military aid (instead of just sales). Remember the US dishing out F-16s to it's allies for ~$20 million (or on aid), thankfully they dropped the pakis like a stone as soon as their utility was over (first after USSR left Afghanistan and then after they got Osama), else we might have been looking at a 150-200 F-16 PAF force by now, like the Turks have.

 

[IndianHawk]

Problem will only increase for us in the coming years the Chinese defence industry matures and its foreign policy expands to giving significant military aid (instead of just sales). Remember the US dishing out F-16s to it's allies for ~$20 million (or on aid), thankfully they dropped the pakis like a stone as soon as their utility was over (first after USSR left Afghanistan and then after they got Osama), else we might have been looking at a 150-200 F-16 PAF force by now, like the Turks have.

Chinese will prop up porkistan for sure.
But the real issue is our own low spending on defence which needs to be rectify asap.

Otherwise economically gap between India and porkistan is rising so fast that no amount of chinese aid can cover it.

For example this year indian economy will add almost 450-500 billion dollars in gdp while porkistan entire GDP will be about 300 -320 billion usd.

We are adding more than porkistans entire economy to our gdp per year. Soon we will start adding 2 porkistans worth in gdp per year and later even 3.

We need to convert that to military spending as well.

 

[MonaLazy]

Pak responds to India's Rafale with China-made 25 J-10C fighter jets

Isn't a squadron 16-18 jets inclusive of trainers? What's with this 25 number? Most probably first tranche to show off at their Shakarpadian prrade ground on 23 March- with remaining 11 following later. PAF pilots probably busy translating instruction manuals written in Chinese & training to fly these in China.

Surprisingly no panic buying to counter Tejas IOC/FOC and in future Mk1A. PAF, you disappoint me!

Also wonder how Jihadistanis will respond if we go for 114 MII Rafale as MRFA. They are already miserably bankrupted- wonder what else they can pledge to the Chinese to afford those many J10Cs.

 

[Tshering22]

Problem will only increase for us in the coming years the Chinese defence industry matures and its foreign policy expands to giving significant military aid (instead of just sales). Remember the US dishing out F-16s to it's allies for ~$20 million (or on aid), thankfully they dropped the pakis like a stone as soon as their utility was over (first after USSR left Afghanistan and then after they got Osama), else we might have been looking at a 150-200 F-16 PAF force by now, like the Turks have.

The Chinese concept of aid will be very different as they are more medieval in their thought, unlike the Western powers. CCP wants to implement a hardened old-China-style vassal system where their emperor is a god. This model of owner-vassal from the olden days will fall flat very soon.

All it takes is Chinese bullying of Pakistani jurnails - they are egomaniacs who will eventually resist CCP's diktat. One can never keep 2 snakes together.

The J-10 deal was conceptualized in 2008 during the last year of Pervez Musharraf. The J-10C has not been offered to anyone else; including the more capable Malaysian, Serbian, Azerbaijani, and Nigerian air forces who can actually pay commercial money to the Chinese. While Myanmar openly rejected the FC-1s and didn't even bother requesting for J-10s, Bangladesh instead is keen on getting jets that "No one in the neighborhood operates". Chances of them getting J-10 are next to none since Bangladeshis are now taking financing from India for importing other weapons.

*Note: Typhoons are at the fag end of their evolution and at this point, any sale is just a bonus. Don't be surprised if the British or Germans offer 10 Typhoons at throwaway prices to Bangladeshis, as these will not rattle anyone.

Think why. Even HAL that has just released the Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A is offering it to any country interested ranging from the American LIFT tender to Argentinians, to Malaysians, to the Philippines. This simply goes to show the trust they have in their own platforms.

_______

Turkey can't be compared to Pakistan because it is a NATO signatory. Their entire fighter fleet is American-made:

- F-16s (including the right to license manufacture them and make their spares with TAI)
- F-4 Phantoms
- F-5 Tiger IIs

These were outrightly purchased by the Turks during their more sensible days before they went full goat-humper mode under Erdogan. On the other hand, Pakistani F-16s were mostly jets acquired through aid or soft loans, except that one batch which was held due to the Pressler Amendment that the Pakistanis keep whining about. Pakistan would have never gotten 200 F-16s after the treatment they got during the War on Terror and USA's Afghanistan stay. Even the US does not dole out so much (Except for Israel which is a very different situation).

 

[Tshering22]

Isn't a squadron 16-18 jets inclusive of trainers? What's with this 25 number? Most probably first tranche to show off at their Shakarpadian prrade ground on 23 March- with remaining 11 following later. PAF pilots probably busy translating instruction manuals written in Chinese & training to fly these in China.

Surprisingly no panic buying to counter Tejas IOC/FOC and in future Mk1A. PAF, you disappoint me!

Also wonder how Jihadistanis will respond if we go for 114 MII Rafale as MRFA. They are already miserably bankrupted- wonder what else they can pledge to the Chinese to afford those many J10Cs.

J-10 is the only jet they can get at this point. Chinese financing = Chinese products only allowed. They are negotiating with the US to give them some F-16s for replacing the older platforms but the US has refused.

The MRFA tender (which itself is a cover for letting Tejas Mk2 develop) removes any other possibility. Not even Gripen NG since their engines are American-made.

 

[Poseidon]

I have strong doubts on this claim by drunkard Sheikh Rasheed.
I think PAF has indeed ordered 20-36 J-10C but they will arrive in batches of 4-6 with last of them arriving in 2023 instead of 25 arriving in just 2 months.

 

[Tshering22]

I have strong doubts on this claim by drunkard Sheikh Rasheed.
I think PAF has indeed ordered 20-36 J-10C but they will arrive in batches of 4-6 with last of them arriving in 2023 instead of 25 arriving in just 2 months.

You never know with the Chinese, man. They may have asked the Pakistani military to withhold information for some time until they make enough numbers and only disclose it 2-3 months before the induction. This has a psychological factor that "China is so fast in making jets that it only takes them a fraction of the time to assemble new fighter jets".

In any case, this deal is not new but something that Musharraf had planned way back in 2008. The J-10s were supposed to replace the oldest F-16s that are practically archaic without the latest weapons package that the Americans have been refusing to the Pakistanis.

I won't be surprised if the Pakistanis faked a couple of crashes and handed over the F-16s for China to study them some years ago when their request for a new weapons package was rejected.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Also wonder how Jihadistanis will respond if we go for 114 MII Rafale as MRFA. They are already miserably bankrupted- wonder what else they can pledge to the Chinese to afford those many J10Cs.

how many years would it take to obtain those? UAE is next in line for 80. Will gobble up production for years. edit Oh Egypt also has 30 on order.

 

[The Shrike]

I have strong doubts on this claim by drunkard Sheikh Rasheed.
I think PAF has indeed ordered 20-36 J-10C but they will arrive in batches of 4-6 with last of them arriving in 2023 instead of 25 arriving in just 2 months.

Yeah, they did a big song and dance about inducting HQ-9 SAM recently, but AFAIK conspicuously showed only a command centre and missile transporter vehicle (no actual launcher or radars) - don't know if these have turned up yet or not.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Since Pakistan is almost bankrupt, wonder what the odds are the Chinese gave the jets to Pakistan as military aid. The US MIC loves to have the US gov't "buy" stuff and then give it away to others. Pretty certain the Russian Communists provided large amounts of military aid. Certain people don't believe in money, ie the Fascist and Communist socialists. We can see how their economies always fail.

 

[Cheepek]

Problem will only increase for us in the coming years the Chinese defence industry matures and its foreign policy expands to giving significant military aid (instead of just sales). Remember the US dishing out F-16s to it's allies for ~$20 million (or on aid), thankfully they dropped the pakis like a stone as soon as their utility was over (first after USSR left Afghanistan and then after they got Osama), else we might have been looking at a 150-200 F-16 PAF force by now, like the Turks have.

No, I think it's very simplistic. Infact we would strike gold if Paki gets fully reliant on China and Chinese tech. Don't discount that we are going to grow also and our defense ecosystem will also keep getting better. The way China can arm Pakis, we can arm China's neighbours in future too! (Like Brahmos to PH, I suspect we've dealt with Vietnam too). China has no dearth of adversaries!

Only thing is Pakistan should always be kept simmering and should not be allowed to grow. It should become a proper vassal state surviving only on breadcrumbs thrown by China. Unlike US, China is VERY VERY stingy with money. A potential rival to US does not come cheap, just imagine what will dependence of a state with 300M jihadis cost to China! (Juicy thought )
All this while we ourselves are focusing on our own systems! Do you think China can match our defense expenditure on behalf of Pakistan every dollar to dollar?!

So I don't it think it as a detrimental move at all. Infact best move. Pakis getting any other fighter from the west or any other country would have been a headache for us. Their cooperation with the west needs to be cut down more, just slowly let them put their eggs in one basket.
We need to persevere and fix our own shit. We'll be okay.

 

[indiazain]

No, I think it's very simplistic. Infact we would strike gold if Paki gets fully reliant on China and Chinese tech. Don't discount that we are going to grow also and our defense ecosystem will also keep getting better. The way China can arm Pakis, we can arm China's neighbours in future too! (Like Brahmos to PH, I suspect we've dealt with Vietnam too). China has no dearth of adversaries!

Only thing is Pakistan should always be kept simmering and should not be allowed to grow. It should become a proper vassal state surviving only on breadcrumbs thrown by China. Unlike US, China is VERY VERY stingy with money. A potential rival to US does not come cheap, just imagine what will dependence of a state with 300M jihadis cost to China! (Juicy thought )
All this while we ourselves are focusing on our own systems! Do you think China can match our defense expenditure on behalf of Pakistan every dollar to dollar?!

So I don't it think it as a detrimental move at all. Infact best move. Pakis getting any other fighter from the west or any other country would have been a headache for us. Their cooperation with the west needs to be cut down more, just slowly let them put their eggs in one basket.
We need to persevere and fix our own shit. We'll be okay.

We should tell the Chinese Pakistan is our territory and if they are involved in Paki land then we will also aggressively get involved with Taiwan. We should tell the silly Chinese if they supply Pakis or any of our immediate neighbours with weapons without our permission we will arm the Tiwanies a few nuclear armed Agni 5 and a few nuclear subs. One China policy will be respected if akhand Bharat is respected. As usual our problem is we have stupid politicians and babus who either dont think or only think but dont execute.

 

[Cheepek]

We should tell the Chinese Pakistan is our territory and if they are involved in Paki land then we will also aggressively get involved with Taiwan. We should tell the silly Chinese if they supply Pakis or any of our immediate neighbours with weapons without our permission we will arm the Tiwanies a few nuclear armed Agni 5 and a few nuclear subs. One China policy will be respected if akhand Bharat is respected. As usual our problem is we have stupid politicians and babus who either dont think or only think but dont execute.

No point in telling them anything. China is our enemy. It is and has been arming Pakistan against us from a long time. It will continue to do so! I think it's pretty clear.
I am 100% sure we are going to arm China's neighbours, just a matter of when and the quanta of our own capabilities.

 

[Tshering22]

how many years would it take to obtain those? UAE is next in line for 80. Will gobble up production for years. edit Oh Egypt also has 30 on order.

Relax. We won't be buying any of the Rafales. That 114 is going to give us the limelight enough to finish the Tejas Mk2s in time. If we didn't do MRFA drama, then the arms lobby will pay off the MoD babus & top air marshals to declare Tejas a failure and re-start a new tender from scratch.

Trust the current government. They are not as foolish as we think of them.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Relax. We won't be buying any of the Rafales. That 114 is going to give us the limelight enough to finish the Tejas Mk2s in time. If we didn't do MRFA drama, then the arms lobby will pay off the MoD babus & top air marshals to declare Tejas a failure and re-start a new tender from scratch.

okay, probably good that India doesn't want more. I kind of made the comment for another reason. Me being suspicious, of the belief that certain countries and groups work together under the table and having seen how many Indians are treated in Arab nations wondered if all those Rafales were suddenly purchased as a way to disrupt future Indian purchases. Buying so others cannot have...it is more commonly done with land and real estate but why not with weapons also?
Those who treat your people like trash might not like your people having better weapons and technology. It was just a thought.
I will stop now since it is quite off topic.

 

[ladder]

I have strong doubts on this claim by drunkard Sheikh Rasheed.
I think PAF has indeed ordered 20-36 J-10C but they will arrive in batches of 4-6 with last of them arriving in 2023 instead of 25 arriving in just 2 months.

China might be sending Chinese J10 for fly past on 23rd March. Separately Pakistan might have ordered 24-25 jets.
And this 'ghonchu' (idiot) probably added them together.

 

[Lonewolf]

okay, probably good that India doesn't want more. I kind of made the comment for another reason. Me being suspicious, of the belief that certain countries and groups work together under the table and having seen how many Indians are treated in Arab nations wondered if all those Rafales were suddenly purchased as a way to disrupt future Indian purchases. Buying so others cannot have...it is more commonly done with land and real estate but why not with weapons also?
Those who treat your people like trash might not like your people having better weapons and technology. It was just a thought.
I will stop now since it is quite off topic.

Most probably another tranche of 36 rafale with faster delivery timeline

 

[fire starter]

China will fight India till last pakistani lol.