Nuclear Power in India

[Lonewolf]

Many reasons;
1. EPR is a proven reactor design; hence it could get regulatory clearance with ease.
2. Nuclear grade Pressure vessel (RPV) fabrication is still a challenge for India; for a size of 2700 MW (th) or 900 MW electric reactor
3. Buying EPR will also entail regular fuel supply from France as in the case of VVERs from Russia as you know we have little resources of Uranium.
4. It's kind of diversifying your portfolio and making all the major stakeholders of NSG happy. (The US -- AP-1000 Westinghouse; France -- EPR Areva; Russia -- VVER Rosatom)
Unfortunately, Westinghouse is facing bankruptcy issues, so only other viable alternative to VVERs is EPR even though it's quite expensive.

Why making them happy , we are still not allowed in it

 

[IndianHawk]

Many reasons;
1. EPR is a proven reactor design; hence it could get regulatory clearance with ease.
2. Nuclear grade Pressure vessel (RPV) fabrication is still a challenge for India; for a size of 2700 MW (th) or 900 MW electric reactor
3. Buying EPR will also entail regular fuel supply from France as in the case of VVERs from Russia as you know we have little resources of Uranium.
4. It's kind of diversifying your portfolio and making all the major stakeholders of NSG happy. (The US -- AP-1000 Westinghouse; France -- EPR Areva; Russia -- VVER Rosatom)
Unfortunately, Westinghouse is facing bankruptcy issues, so only other viable alternative to VVERs is EPR even though it's quite expensive.

Little correction to it. We no longer have any shortage of Uranium after we found massive reserves in Andhra Pradesh. Infact our uranium reserves are now equal to that of America and among the largest in the world.
According to Wikipedia
India 129000 tons and usa 138000 tons.

Now import is still welcome as it will take time and money to mine actual uranium and process it.

But thankfully we have no shortage . We can ramp up our nuclear program whenever we want.

 

[piKacHHu]

Why making them happy , we are still not allowed in it

But we are still getting fuel from Kazakh and Russia; or even Australia (in-pipeline depending upon their Govt approval). Even though we are not part of it still we have got many waivers for accessing technologies/co-operation. As you know nuclear technologies are safeguarded against proliferation hence there is major control of these big 3s on sharing of technologies.
Not to deny the fact that we have achieved various milestones in nuclear technology still we are not Pro yet.

 

[Lonewolf]

But we are still getting fuel from Kazakh and Russia; or even Australia (in-pipeline depending upon their Govt approval). Even though we are not part of it still we have got many waivers for accessing technologies/co-operation. As you know nuclear technologies are safeguarded against proliferation hence there is major control of these big 3s on sharing of technologies.
Not to deny the fact that we have achieved various milestones in nuclear technology still we are not Pro yet.

Apwr and pfbr are nothing below one of best and we are in joint deveolpment with burger boys for best nuclear reactor Design

 

[piKacHHu]

Little correction to it. We no longer have any shortage of Uranium after we found massive reserves in Andhra Pradesh. Infact our uranium reserves are now equal to that of America and among the largest in the world.
According to Wikipedia
India 129000 tons and usa 138000 tons.

Now import is still welcome as it will take time and money to mine actual uranium and process it.

But thankfully we have no shortage . We can ramp up our nuclear program whenever we want.

Okay, getting a reserve in hand and its commercial utilisation are 2 different aspects. Many operating nuclear plants in India under IAEA umbrella ( Refer 123 Agreement/NSG waiver) are still operating on foreign fuel with IAEA inspectors sitting at those sites and monitoring intake & spent fuel.
Not denying whether India will be free from dependence on uranium import but as of now or even in this decade this is not going to happen IMO. As of now, I believe that majority of indigenous sources of Uranium is used for our own strategic usage.

 

[IndianHawk]

Okay, getting a reserve in hand and its commercial utilisation are 2 different aspects. Many operating nuclear plants in India under IAEA umbrella ( Refer 123 Agreement/NSG waiver) are still operating on foreign fuel with IAEA inspectors sitting at those sites and monitoring intake & spent fuel.
Not denying whether India will be free from dependence on uranium import but as of now or even in this decade this is not going to happen IMO. As of now, I believe that majority of indigenous sources of Uranium is used for our own strategic usage.

Yes they are different things . But previously we even lacked reserve and hence seeked security of international supply so that our own uranium can be used for strategic purpose.

Now we have more than enough for both commercial and strategic use. Ofcourse we will welcome more uranium from foreign if it's coming. No harm in that besides old contracts need to be honoured anyway.

 

[piKacHHu]

Apwr and pfbr are nothing below one of best and we are in joint deveolpment with burger boys for best nuclear reactor Design

PFBR is yet to be commissioned; APWR is still a concept. We achieved competency in development and enhancement of PHWRs, and that we should continue to do so as the Canadians did with similar CANDU reactors making it to generate even 1000-1200 MW (electric).

Problem with APWR in Indian context is 2 fold;
1. Manufacturing of critical components
2. Whether we have enough enriched fuel to power commercial as well as strategic reactors ?

 

[piKacHHu]

Yes they are different things . But previously we even lacked reserve and hence seeked security of international supply so that our own uranium can be used for strategic purpose.

Now we have more than enough for both commercial and strategic use. Ofcourse we will welcome more uranium from foreign if it's coming. No harm in that besides old contracts need to be honoured anyway.

Yeah, of course... The world is sticking to Uranium as of now; Thorium is still a pipe dream. India should take every effort to gather as much as Uranium resources it could to make sure its commercial as well as strategic interests will keep moving till the end of century.

 

[Lonewolf]

PFBR is yet to be commissioned; APWR is still a concept. We achieved competency in development and enhancement of PHWRs, and that we should continue to do so as the Canadians did with similar CANDU reactors making it to generate even 1000-1200 MW (electric).

Problem with APWR in Indian context is 2 fold;
1. Manufacturing of critical components
2. Whether we have enough enriched fuel to power commercial as well as strategic reactors ?

Pfbr have efficiency of 39 percent ,one of highest but it's main utilization is in apwr which is not a starter

 

[piKacHHu]

Pfbr have efficiency of 39 percent ,one of highest but it's main utilization is in apwr which is not a starter

Not getting your point. PFBR utilisation in APWR?

PFBR - Prototype Fast breeder
APWR - Advance Pressurised Water reactor.

PFBR will breed plutonium now and Uranium-233 later. As of now, didn't learn about U-233 utilisation in PWR, theoretically it could be done but in the indian context, U-233 was meant for thermal breeders not the PWRs.

APWR is commercial off-shoot of indian attempt for developing PWRs for strategic purpose. It will utilise enriched uranium.

 

[fire starter]

Not getting your point. PFBR utilisation in APWR?

PFBR - Prototype Fast breeder
APWR - Advance Pressurised Water reactor.

PFBR will breed plutonium now and Uranium-233 later. As of now, didn't learn about U-233 utilisation in PWR, theoretically it could be done but in the indian context, U-233 was meant for thermal breeders not the PWRs.

APWR is commercial off-shoot of indian attempt for developing PWRs for strategic purpose. It will utilise enriched uranium.

He is talking about PHWR.

 

[fire starter]

FBR-600 - India's Next-gen Commercial Fast Breeder Reactor [CFBR]

My personal blog. My corner on the Internet where I can write about the stuff I feel like.

www.aame.in

 

[piKacHHu]

View attachment 90039

FBR-600 - India's Next-gen Commercial Fast Breeder Reactor [CFBR]

My personal blog. My corner on the Internet where I can write about the stuff I feel like.

www.aame.in

Okay, but where is PHWR comes into this cycle ? Strange that they mentioned criticality at 2015; it's not yet critical AFAIK.
Fast reactor is still in operation in France; but not used widely.. Reason; economics, handling of sodium, complexity, material degradation etc. Let see how far it goes in India.

 

[fire starter]

Okay, but where is PHWR comes into this cycle ? Strange that they mentioned criticality at 2015; it's not yet critical AFAIK.
Fast reactor is still in operation in France; but not used widely.. Reason; economics, handling of sodium, complexity, material degradation etc. Let see how far it goes in India.

Well plutonium obtained from PHWR as a by product is used in FBR.

 

[piKacHHu]

Well plutonium obtained from PHWR as a by product is used in FBR.

Yes, plutonium from PHWR could be utilised in PFBR not the other way round. After initial loading, it will become self sustaining in plutonium generation hence the name 'breeder'.
I mentioned "PFBR utilisation in APWR " or even in PHWR which is not correct. As you said, PHWR could be utilised for PFBR but again it couldn't be done in reverse fashion.

 

[Jimih]

 

[sorcerer]

First Indigenous Alloy for Nuclear-Plants Ready
TNN / Updated: Jul 1, 2021, 11:37 IST

2 minutes



AHMEDABAD: ArcelorMittal Nippon Steel India has designed and manufactured the country’s first indigenously developed specialist-grade steel plates (16Mo3). They are meant for use in heavy water reactors for the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd , said a senior AM/NS official.
In line with Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’ vision, this has been developed in collaboration with Larsen & Toubro Ltd, the official said.

First indigenous alloy for nuclear-plants ready | Ahmedabad News - Times of India

ArcelorMittal Nippon Steel India has designed and manufactured the country’s first indigenously developed specialist-grade steel plates (16Mo3). They

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[sorcerer]

First Indigenous Alloy for Nuclear-Plants Ready
TNN / Updated: Jul 1, 2021, 11:37 IST

2 minutes



AHMEDABAD: ArcelorMittal Nippon Steel India has designed and manufactured the country’s first indigenously developed specialist-grade steel plates (16Mo3). They are meant for use in heavy water reactors for the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd , said a senior AM/NS official.
In line with Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’ vision, this has been developed in collaboration with Larsen & Toubro Ltd, the official said.

First indigenous alloy for nuclear-plants ready | Ahmedabad News - Times of India

ArcelorMittal Nippon Steel India has designed and manufactured the country’s first indigenously developed specialist-grade steel plates (16Mo3). They

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Middle finger to Europe..
noiiccc

 

[gearedcombustor]

BARC in it's August newsletter has confirmed forging of specimens of 350 mm to 750 mm thick reactor pressure vessel forgings for validation for the IPWR-900 program

http://www.barc.gov.in/barc_nl/2021/2021070808.pdf (Nice pic inside)

Wikipedia links to paper that says it is probably 20MnMoNi55 which they are now calling “APURVA” (Advanced Purified Reactor Vessel Alloy)

Based on comparing the BARC image in the newsletter and this video () from L&TSSHF so this is very likely to be from L&TSSHF Hazira (L&T NPCIL JV) that has a 9000 Ton forge press. They planned another 17000 Ton press but status is unknown.

Also see https://corpwebstorage.blob.core.windows.net/media/35198/ltsshf-brochure.pdf

Other potential future forging locations are Bharat Forge which has a 16000 Ton forge press (Not nuclear certified). HEC Ranchi and MIDHANI Hyderabad both have 6000 Ton forge press.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

BARC in it's August newsletter has confirmed forging of specimens of 350 mm to 750 mm thick reactor pressure vessel forgings for validation for the IPWR-900 program

http://www.barc.gov.in/barc_nl/2021/2021070808.pdf (Nice pic inside)

Wikipedia links to paper that says it is probably 20MnMoNi55 which they are now calling “APURVA” (Advanced Purified Reactor Vessel Alloy)

Based on comparing the BARC image in the newsletter and this video () from L&TSSHF so this is very likely to be from L&TSSHF Hazira (L&T NPCIL JV) that has a 9000 Ton forge press. They planned another 17000 Ton press but status is unknown.

Also see https://corpwebstorage.blob.core.windows.net/media/35198/ltsshf-brochure.pdf

Other potential future forging locations are Bharat Forge which has a 16000 Ton forge press (Not nuclear certified). HEC Ranchi and MIDHANI Hyderabad both have 6000 Ton forge press.

Apun ki office baju mai hi hai.