New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[lemontree]

Why there is an obsession with army to quip its forces with tar21 which costs approx 2 lakh rupees where as we could get any nice weapon at a value less than 1 lakh and with the rest of the money we could buy better body,aromur,commn systems ,thermal imagers,navigation system etc.

Why the Tavor was choosen? - One cannot answer that query. But you are quoting absurd costs per rifle. Most assaut rifles cost between INR 5000 to INR 15,000. Where did you get the figures of 2 lacs and 1 lac?

The ideal system is the Aug Styr - one weapon can be switched from rifle to carbine to sniper to LMG. All one has to do is change the barrel.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/at/steyr-aug-e.html

As far i know sig552,ak103,hk416 all are best suited for commandos, plus most of the specops raids are cqb and ct like ones so why a 5.56 rifle in place of a 7.62mm rifle

No one knows their weapon better that the user. BTW the first 400 TAR-21 that were delivered to the SFF in 2005 for testing were rejected as "operationally unsuitable". The required changes were made and the current systems are being inducted.

 

[AprilLyrics]

QBZ-95 have deign problems don`t know abt quality..

INSAS is for regulars and will be untill F-INSAS`s Rifle see production, These Rifles are for PARA units which are using AKM and VZ-58..

well,should be talking about INSAS.since u mentioned 95.thats right.i have said,a rifle cannot be perfect when it came to birth.

95 does have problems.some fans said when using 95,the aim system is too high that user may expose more parts to enemy.but there is some article written by a retired soldier,he said 95 performanced good.95 is not designed for Positional warfare.so when using it,mostly user r moving,or in narrow area like some place of city.so aimsystem is high doesnt make sense.

there is also another problem about 95.left-hand people cannot use it well.and when it throws shell case ,the direction is not stable.this is modifed in 95-1.

also another problem,about the ammo.since my english is not good.i cannot explain it.

since 95 has been equiped by large quantity,we cannot expect a rifle is as good as HK416,or scar.china needs a rifle can be 1.cheap,2.easy to produce,3.work well,4.can be produced by large quantity.

so,95 is not that good.but we didnt stopping improving 95 rifle.

recently,a modify version of 95 comes out.that is 95-1.here is a link of an article about 95-1.whats more,the ammo of 95 series is improved too(DBP95 to DBP10).

95-1ǹ�������¸Ľ�������QBQ��־��| ½�ؿ��� - �������� ���ճ������������ڷ��� - powered by phpwind.net

this means 95 has a potential.(besides,in COD8MW3,95 also showed up in multi-game.3 round burst version.very interesting.)

back to INSAS. if INDIA army doesnt abondon INSAS,it will also have a future.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Dont think it will hit targets at 400 mts unless it has a very long barell.If the regular para wants a lighter rifle firing m43 runds why dont they ask the makers of vz58s to provide vz58s with all the upgrades like railings,grey colour,optical sights and frnt hand guards.

Even though the production was stopped in 1980s they could provide us rifles if we put a huge order. AK103 could also be better choice compared to ace and bulgarian akm.

I had look at the rifle, It does have a longer barrel compare to AKM and iron sight of Insas..

TAR-21 is mainly chosen coz of its range and its length so does accuracy and balance when firing..



I would recommend the tactical AKM and VZ-58 for RRs, These guys love M43 and they needed that solution..

AK-103 is lighter and a good rifle same for others, Only army trial will conclude the results..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

since u mentioned 95.thats right.i have said,a rifle cannot be perfect when it came to birth.

95 does have problems.some fans said when using 95,the aim system is too high

but there is some article written by a retired soldier,he said 95 performanced good.95 is not designed for Positional warfare.so when using it,mostly user r moving,or in narrow area like some place of city.so aimsystem is high doesnt make sense.

there is also another problem about 95.left-hand people cannot use it well.and when it throws shell case ,the direction is not stable.this is modifed in 95-1.

also another problem,about the ammo.since my english is not good.i cannot explain it.

since 95 has been equiped by large quantity,we cannot expect a rifle is as good as HK416,or scar.china needs a rifle can be 1.cheap,2.easy to produce,3.work well,4.can be produced by large quantity.

so,95 is not that good.but we didnt stopping improving 95 rifle.

recently,a modify version of 95 comes out.that is 95-1.here is a link of an article about 95-1.whats more,the ammo of 95 series is improved too(DBP95 to DBP10).

this means 95 has a potential.(besides,in COD8MW3,95 also showed up in multi-game.3 round burst version.very interesting.)

back to INSAS. if INDIA army doesnt abondon INSAS,it will also have a future.

QBZ-95 is deign based on Famas mainly, Famas itself was not a good rifle in terms of deign same things in famas occurred in QBZ-95..

The retired Solider is right, Its depend on the person skills, QBZ-95 is a bull-pup and good both CQB and Longer ranges, though it deign let it down unlike other bull-pup not..


IA is purchasing foreign rifles of SF and Elite forces, Though Present variant of Insas is good and issued to all Infantry units..

 

[AprilLyrics]

QBZ-95 is deign based on Famas mainly, Famas itself was not a good rifle in terms of deign same things in famas occurred in QBZ-95..

The retired Solider is right, Its depend on the person skills, QBZ-95 is a bull-pup and good both CQB and Longer ranges, though it deign let it down unlike other bull-pup not..


IA is purchasing foreign rifles of SF and Elite forces, Though Present variant of Insas is good and issued to all Infantry units..

FAMAS?err...isnt it based on 81,which is base on 56,which is based on AK-47? just look at 95's clip.

can u give me some information about 95 based on FAMAS?

 

[AprilLyrics]

double clicked

 

[Kunal Biswas]

FAMAS?err...isnt it based on 81,which is base on 56,which is based on AK-47? just look at 95's clip.

can u give me some information about 95 based on FAMAS?

famas

QBZ-95

1. Butt..
2. Handle
3. Rear peep Sight Over the handle..
3. Cocking handle


The internal said to be resemble to AK-74..

 

[AprilLyrics]

1. Butt..
2. Handle
3. Rear peep Sight Over the handle..
3. Cocking handle


The internal said to be resemble to AK-74..

er....simply google QBZ95 and FAMAS,u can find some pic about the two rifle being taken apart.
and that would be more accurite to see whether 95 is like FAMAS....

OK,comes back to india's rifle.what's the defference between AKM and AK103?when i come to wiki,i saw AK from AK101 to AK107,i just feel 囧(looks like a face?and thats my feeling....).so whats the difference except the caliber?

and,for a large quantity army,AK series should be better than HK416,or other expensive guns.they r stable,cheap,and easy to produce.but for some special forces,HK416 seems to be a better choice.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

er....simply google QBZ95 and FAMAS,u can find some pic about the two rifle being taken apart.
and that would be more accurite to see whether 95 is like FAMAS....

The deign aspect i mention are related with sights, The sights are major drawback of QBZ-95 which came from FAMAS..

Its not i am talking abt its reliability..

OK,comes back to india's rifle.what's the defference between AKM and AK103?when i come to wiki,i saw AK from AK101 to AK107,i just feel 囧(looks like a face?and thats my feeling....).so whats the difference except the caliber?

Weight and Barrel length..

and,for a large quantity army,AK series should be better than HK416,or other expensive guns.they r stable,cheap,and easy to produce.but for some special forces,HK416 seems to be a better choice.

Indeed..

 

[hitesh]

i know its irrelevant but i like it

 

[hitesh]

i dont know why USA never went for bullpup design like British ,french ,Israel & Chinese

 

[W.G.Ewald]

i dont know why USA never went for bullpup design like British ,french ,Israel & Chinese

I will guess that because the M16 was unpopular for a long time, the US Army did not want to go throught the process of again introducing a new weapon.

We may yet have a bullpup.

Replacing the M16: Five lethal candidates Pictures - CBS News

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

this is a grenade launcher not a rifle.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

US SOF use M14 bullpups..

 

[W.G.Ewald]

this is a grenade launcher not a rifle.

You are right, my mistake.

 

[ALBY]

i dont know why USA never went for bullpup design like British ,french ,Israel & Chinese

Due to the same reason british chose m4s and hks for SAS and chinese chose to produce type 03 even after indegeniously producing bullpups.Why take a risk to produce a bullpup when thy could produce a high quality AR by which they could do the same job with out much risk of complexity.
Producing a high quality bullpup is many times harder than a conventional rifle and considering the difficulties in developing such a system it didn't gave back much advantage worth developing.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Due to the same reason british chose m4s and hks for SAS and chinese chose to produce type 03 even after indegeniously producing bullpups.Why take a risk to produce a bullpup when thy could produce a high quality AR by which they could do the same job with out much risk of complexity.
Producing a high quality bullpup is many times harder than a conventional rifle and considering the difficulties in developing such a system it didn't gave back much advantage worth developing.

The trigger linkage should be electronic in a bullpup.

 

[Shaitan]

NEW DELHI: Seeking to arm its infantry soldier with a lethal and sophisticated assault rifle from a foreign vendor, the Army has started the field trials for procuring over 60,000 assault rifles in a deal worth Rs 13,000 crore.
Of the 40 overseas vendors, whom the Ministry of Defence sent a request for proposal, only four have applied for the tender and the winner will replace the 1990's vintage indigenous 5.56 mm INSAS assault rifle inducted by the Army in its inventory reluctantly.
The four vendors had submitted their bids by mid-February. The Army wants its latest rifles to be equipped with detachable under-barrel grenade launchers, night-vision devices, laser designators and so on. The other requirement is that the rifles should be able to fire locally-produced ammunition. Sources said, "The trials have begun and considering the requirements of the force, the guns will be tested in deserts, extreme cold weathers, high-altitude regions and so on. At all the places earmarked, the guns for testing will be fired to check its accuracy, stoppages if any and any other technical requirements."
The tender for 66,000 rifles was dispatched to over 40 overseas vendors in December last year. According to Army officials, the size of the deal is set to increase as the force would equip all its infantry soldiers. The Central Paramilitary Force and state police undergoing modernisation programme would soon follow suit. According to the Indian Procurement Policy, the selected vendor will have to transfer of the technology to the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) which will then manufacture the guns under licence within the country.
The present INSAS rifles were inducted into the Army in 1997-98 and has been employed extensively in the counter-insurgency in the area. However, the Army has always felt the rifle inadequate in meeting its operational requirement. On many a occasions in cold regions, the firing mechanism of the guns used to get jammed. The gun was designed by the military research body Defence Research and Development Organisation over a period of 10 years and manufactured by the OFB in another four years.
Seeing its track record, the Army decided to import one lakh Kalashnikov-designed AK-47 rifles from Bulgaria in 1995 for counter-insurgency operations. Its special counter-insurgency force Rashtriya Rifles continues to use AK-47. The INSAS Assault Rifles malfunctioning became an issue of contention between India and Nepal in 2005, when Nepalese Army complained that the rifles supplied by India to fight Maoist guerillas malfunctioned repeatedly, resulting in heavy casualties.

Army begins trials for new assault rifles

 

[Killswitch]

Its about damn time. The infantry have been neglected to no end.

I wonder if the ARDE 2 caliber weapon will join the trials.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Just Putting Some Info On RFI:

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION : ASSAULT RIFLE FOR INFANTRY

Integrated Sighting System

(i) Does the weapon have luminous tipped Flip-up iron sights?
(ii) Does the weapon have a Holographic Sight / Reflex Sight? What is the weight of the sight?
(iii) Does the weapon have a Telescopic Sight? What is its weight, magnification and field of view?
(iv) Does the weapon also have Visible Laser Target Pointer and Laser Illuminator? What is its range and weight? Are they integrated with Holographic/Reflex Sight?



UBGL.
Can a Under Barrel Grenade Launcher (UBGL) be attached to the weapon?. If yes then

(i) What is the caliber of the UBGL?
(ii) Is UBGL breech loaded or muzzle loaded?
(iii) What is the maximum range of the UBGL?
(iv) What is the weight of the UBGL?
(v) What types of grenades can be fired from the UBGL?
(vi) Can the UBGL be fired in a standalone mode? If yes, then what are the modifications required?
(vii) Does the UBGL have a multipurpose fire control system? If yes, then please provide specifications and features. What types of grenades are supported by the
programmable ballistic computer? Is integration of Laser Range Finder possible with the Fire Control System?


Modularity.
Is the weapon modular and facilitates replacement of subassemblies without the use of any specialist tools?
If the weapon is modular then :-
(i) Is it possible to have multi caliber barrel change capability for the following calibers.
(aa) 5.56 X 45mm.
(ab) 7.62 X 39mm.
(ac) 7.62 X 51mm.
(ad) 6.8 X 43mm.
(ae) 6.5 Grendel.


Reliability.
What is the reliability of the Assault Rifle, specify in terms of various stoppages during a firing cycle of 1000 rounds?


Picatinny Rails.
Does the Assault Rifle have full length Picatinny Rails at 12 O'clock position with additional rails at 3 O'clock, 6 O'clock and 9 O'clock position?



More here: http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/193/rfipmo_03dec10.pdf