Naxals/Maoists Watch

[Sridhar]

No decision yet on use of air power in anti-naxal ops: PM

HT Correspondents, Hindustan Times
Email Author
New Delhi/Jagdalpur/Ahmedabad, April 07, 2010
First Published: 12:16 IST(7/4/2010)
Last Updated: 01:18 IST(8/4/2010)

A day after Maoists killed 75 CRPF personnel and a policeman in Chattisgarh's Dantewada district, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said on Wednesday the government had not taken a decision on deploying the armed forces against the ultras yet but the option was open.
"As of now, we have not taken any view in this direction. All these options are kept open and continuously reviewed," Singh said in response to a mediaperson's query on the sidelines of a function in New Delhi.

Indian Air Force chief P V Naik, who is also the chairman of the chiefs of staff committee, said in Gandhinagar near Ahme-dabad that he did not favour the option of using the armed forces to tackle the Maoist problem.
"The military — air force, army and navy — are trained to inflict maximum lethality. They are not trained for limited lethality. The weapons that we have are meant for the enemy across the border," he said.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/speci...wer-in-anti-naxal-ops-PM/Article1-528184.aspx

 

[mehwish92]

I am strongly against the use of air power here. We do not want to inflict large number of casualties among the tribals. Cannot afford to alienate them. We already have so many people fighting against "police excesses" and "army excesses" in other parts of the country. We must make sure we do not make the same mistake here.

 

[Yusuf]

I can safely tell that a single symbolic air strike on a maoist den will be enough to scare the tribals into giving up the maoists. Right now they are playing on govt inaction. Once an air strike is called in, they will get a measure of the intent and then intel will flow from the tribals to the govt. Also we need to put in drones in those areas. Wonder if we can quickly get armed drones. They would help big time.

 

[Soham]

Rise of the Reds

We have some very basic problems here. Primary of which is the fact that the Govt. doesn't know what they are trying to do. Unlike the flush-out in Andhra, which had been intricately planned to the last bit not only in terms of how the military operations would function, but also what must be done once the Maoists are flushed out to keep them from returning and establishing influence.
Military operations will only provide us with a bridge of possibility. The Govt. MUST simultaneously engage in negative propaganda against the Maoists and counter-intelligence by using Red informers against the Naxals.
This has been done with success in Andhra.

Right now, the Govt. is suffering from "We must do something quickly !" syndrome in which they are hastily sending in a rush of thousands of troops without any planning whatsoever about other factors governing their efficiency. Unless the security forces are backed by the people, such incidents will not be the first of their kind. Our policy makers must realize that those tribals are the very source of effective Maoist functioning. Cut off that support, and the Maoists are dead ducks.

Secondly, there's an evident lack of leadership. Why is it that PC has to keep coming up and give the statements ? Where are the IGs and DIGs of the police ? Why are they hiding in a corner ? Why are they not ensuring proper adherence of the Jungle Warfare code ?
Thirdly, from what the newspapers suggest, there's a conflict between ideas of police and CRPF. They are not mutually agreed on many operational elements, and there have been many angry exchanges and open disagreements between the leadership of both. Such lack of co-operation cannot be afforded. If both forces venture off to separate tactics, the trouble can only mount further.

I have my doubts about the effectiveness of armour in such terrain. Unless entire tracts of forests are cleared, any tanks, heavy vehicles will fall prey to a clear lack of mobility and densely concentrated AT mines. Air operations will be successful as long as they work on precise intel about Maoist movements.

For a successful flush out, concentrated infantry operations along with simultaneous counterintelligence with tribal help must be practiced.

On a civil level, this issue is almost un-acknowledged. Just because those terrorists are not striking at the heart of India in a bustling city, the city folks choose to remain unaffected. Just because the victims are soldiers and remote tribes, the elite seem to be living in an air of security due lack of present threat. Such a school of thought is dangerous for society. If we start following Arundhati Roy's "Gandhian's with Guns" philosophy, we are in for a whooping. They are following Mao's replica. They won't strike the city until they infiltrate the labour unions, and win influence in the rural community. Once that is done, they begin to surround cities with influenced villages. This is being done around Kolkata at the moment. And they won't stop till they surround the Parliament.

The Reds are much worse than perpetrators of 26/11. They don't seek to terrorize India. They seek to rule India.

 

[Soham]

I am strongly against the use of air power here. We do not want to inflict large number of casualties among the tribals. Cannot afford to alienate them. We already have so many people fighting against "police excesses" and "army excesses" in other parts of the country. We must make sure we do not make the same mistake here.

No one is getting alienated by air strikes.
The Air Force will only function upon specific intelligence. So there isn't a question about massive collateral damage.

I can safely tell that a single symbolic air strike on a maoist den will be enough to scare the tribals into giving up the maoists. Right now they are playing on govt inaction. Once an air strike is called in, they will get a measure of the intent and then intel will flow from the tribals to the govt. Also we need to put in drones in those areas. Wonder if we can quickly get armed drones. They would help big time.

Totally agree. Tribal support can be regulated massively by 'shock and awe'.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Yusuf
A mao minion may be a gond but every gond need not be a maoist.You are giving a very black and white picture where as it is not the case.There are infinite shades of grey in the middle and we need to know atleast some of them.AP started fighting the maoists from 1983 onwards precisely the time NTR came to power.By the way Maoism was never a menace which is in the proportions that we see in Jharkhand and Chattisgarh today

 

[johnee]

I can safely tell that a single symbolic air strike on a maoist den will be enough to scare the tribals into giving up the maoists. Right now they are playing on govt inaction. Once an air strike is called in, they will get a measure of the intent and then intel will flow from the tribals to the govt. Also we need to put in drones in those areas. Wonder if we can quickly get armed drones. They would help big time.

Thats my man. A war is as much physcological as it is on ground. Infact, even many maoists may be disheartened and their may be rebellion with their ranks. They have been trained and prepared mentally to expect attacks from CRPF and police. Using an air force or army would have a physcological effect on the maoist lower and mid level cadres.

Further, air power does not mean simply bombing a place, it could be as simple thing as air surviellence.

 

[Rage]

Air power or not, the fact remains that the paramilitaries have an inadequately small fleet of choppers, and if helicopter gunships are going to be used for close-air-support, the scale of operation Scumblood Scour will demand that the Air Force or the Army Aviation Corps be roped in. Both have complicated matters by postulating that they will not be involved. Involvement of either also means a political conundrum for Chidambaram and the other g@@ns, who've been asserting all along that 'Green Hunt' doesn't exist. Unless they do it secretly, which is all the more difficult to do when Triservices personnel are involved.

Air strikes in jungle warfare have limited utility by any means. Army drones, particularly loitering attack weapons like the Harpy, and Searcher II would be more useful.

 

[Iamanidiot]

RAGE IAF resources are scarce and they are more useful at the border.Give a fleet of transport choppers to the para-military thats a better option

 

[Iamanidiot]

by there is no thing such as a Maoist den.They are a dynamic lot

 

[Rage]

RAGE IAF resources are scarce and they are more useful at the border.Give a fleet of transport choppers to the para-military thats a better option

JP, are you aware of the shortage of pilots with the paramilitaries? It ain't don't just come easy by 'givin' a fleet of transport choppers to the paramilitaries, honey.

Besides, this is about CAS to ground troops, not about logistics and transport.

As of early 2008, a fleet of six MI-6 choppers, procured especially for the paramilitaries two years before, were lying rotting at the Safdarjung Airport because there were no pilots.

 

[Rage]

by there is no thing such as a Maoist den.They are a dynamic lot

We are going to win this war. Make no mistake about it. Whether the Maoists hole up in dens or not.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Rage seriously the problem is going out of hand fast.We acted foolishly until now and are acting foolhardy now.The AP IPS cadre are volunteering to tackle the problem
a)provided the police forces in the maoist areas of Dantewada,Bastar and Dandakaranya report to Hyd(including some border areas of orissa)
b)The development of these areas in done by the GOI not the states

IG Durga prasad and Retired DGP Peravaram Ramullu are saying the operation planning and combing operations are stupid and execution is stupid itself

6 helis are insufficient rage

 

[Rage]

Rage seriously the problem is going out of hand fast.We acted foolishly until now and are acting foolhardy now.The AP IPS cadre are volunteering to tackle the problem
a)provided the police forces in the maoist areas of Dantewada,Bastar and Dandakaranya report to Hyd(including some border areas of orissa)
b)The development of these areas in done by the GOI not the states

IG Durga prasad and Retired DGP Peravaram Ramullu are saying the operation planning and combing operations are stupid and execution is stupid itself

The problem is not all with the Centre. Different states are vacillating to different extents on the issue. Chattisgarh, for example, has a clear-cut policy on the matter, giving its troops a carte-blanche mandate to engage maoist 'wood wogs' where it sees them, provided there are no excessive human rights violations. West Bengal, on the other hand, is still dithering on a clear focus, bound as it is by political compulsions. As is Madhya Pradesh, and Orissa to a lesser extent.

There is only so much the 'Centre' can do, primarily because this operation involves such a large part of state forces and draws a good degree of its intel from state intelligence.

If Hyderabad is willing to go ahead and ream these anal motherf^ckers a new one, then by all means. They've set the trend in efficient maoist dispersal anyway.

6 helis are insufficient rage

Ain't that what I just made clear to you.

 

[Rage]

If you needed more evidence of what they're up to:


Maoists open new front to rope in farmers

Sumanta Ray Chadhuri / DNA
Thursday, April 8, 2010 0:37 IST

Kolkata: After establishing base in the tribal belts, Maoists are trying to persuade farmers to join them as armed guerrillas.

To achieve this, CPM has floated a farmers’ wing, Agra-gami Krishak Samiti, whose members will scatter in different farm belts of the country and organise peasants.

An underground Maoist spokesman in West Bengal told the media on Tuesday that the decision to form the peasants’ wing was taken at a secret meeting in the jungles of Jharkhand’s Singhbhum district last month.

“Initially, the peasants’ wing will operate in Bengal, Bihar, Chhattishgarh, Andhra, Orissa and Jharkhand. Slowly, we will try to make inroads in other states,” he said...

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_maoists-open-new-front-to-rope-in-farmers_1368679


Spread the word: The 'Agra-gami Krishak Samiti' is a new front for the Maoists.

 

[Sabir]

Few days back Mr Anjani Kumar (Not sure whether I have spelled it right) , present Chief of Grey Hound Force visited Kolkata. I read his interview in news paper. He is very against of setting camps or doing combing operation with large force. Rather he said his men scout the villages and jungles in disguise of civilians.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

The problem is not all with the Centre. Different states are vacillating to different extents on the issue. Chattisgarh, for example, has a clear-cut policy on the matter, giving its troops a carte-blanche mandate to engage maoist 'wood wogs' where it sees them, provided there are no excessive human rights violations. West Bengal, on the other hand, is still dithering on a clear focus, bound as it is by political compulsions. As is Madhya Pradesh, and Orissa to a lesser extent.

There is only so much the 'Centre' can do, primarily because this operation involves such a large part of state forces and draws a good degree of its intel from state intelligence.

If Hyderabad is willing to go ahead and ream these anal motherf^ckers a new one, then by all means. They've set the trend in efficient maoist dispersal anyway.



Ain't that what I just made clear to you.

Couldn’t have put it better, seriously!

At the end of the day it all boils down to the political will on part of the political parties. One day these parties make use of the naxals to push their poll prospects and the other day when the same comes to bite them they try and fight them.

BJP, congress and the left are shouting that this a war forced on us, at least bjp says we should fight till the finish, now if these guys are so sincere then let them say that no matter what the central government wont fall for the next 4 years provided the results are there for everyone to see, come lets form a national government, and what better than when all the 3 extreme political ideologies come together for a national cause, but then other than lip service nation was never bigger than politics. If they were to join hands all the state governments would fall in line and if not then president’s rule shouldn’t be far off, but are we as people sincere as Indians? At least the politicians are not.

Let the security forces have a free hand, let them wield the power, yes excesses will happen, but you cant fight the barbarians with a smile on the face, one hand tied and with a white cloth, when the other is ready to suck you up.

I strongly believe it is all about politics at the end of the day, nothing more, once that part is taken care of, then as chidu says, its all a matter of 3-4 years, and it bloody well is!

 

[notinlove]

I did not expect anything different , because it is a defence forum .

To start of, lets take a look at a couple of maps.

Naxal affected areas in india.

A map of india according to poverty.

A stark similarity greets us , To say that naxalism has nothing to do with Poverty would be belying ourselves.The question that remains is "Why would someone who has a full stomach and a a fair non oppressed life , Take up arms against the very government which ensures these attributes"?
The Answer is no rocket science, The truth remains that these people have been neglected and neglected for such a long time that their belief in any form of governance which can improve the standard of living has eroded, to them government is nothing more than a Neo-zamindaar which appoints police force and Administrative officers to harass and exploit them. These are the conditions that Are being exploited by naxal leaders for futhering their own nefarious agenda.
its very easy to mislead someone into taking up guns , who has nothing much to live for anyways.

What needs to be understood is , what would the use of excessive and unabated force would do in such an area?
The results might be strangely different than one might expect,instead of curtailing the naxalite nonsense , the extensive use of force would in my personal opinion exacerbate the problem . The reason lies in the Psyche of the people of the area , They live in some of the most inhuman conditions imaginable , and every death of an innocent would just make matters worst , it would give them one more reason to hate the system and the baxalites one more excuse to lure more people into their cadres. we might end up with a situation like Sri lanka, or i daresay somewhat like Afghanistan during the 80's and 90's , i know the analogy is not correct but the central idea remains the same , You have an oppressor(in this case indian government if it uses excessive force) and you have a group of radicals who can mislead innocents into taking up guns and fighting the oppressor.

So what do we do ?

First and foremost , we have to give the people something to live for , something to be happy about and something to look forward to, The eradication of naxalism in AP was not all about police operations , it also had a lot to do with the reformist and development policies of successive governments, we need to act on Land reforms and providing basic amenities and support to agrarians and tribals of the area.but it is not as easy as it sounds , the already existing naxalites would not allow government to take on development work even if it wanted to, because such a thing would undermine their authority and erode their support base.

So what do we really need to do ?
We need to embed force and development , we need to strike a balance , but most of all we need to start from the OUTSIDE IN. we need to start development work right away in the least naxal affected areas, so that people in the highly infested area have an example to look upto. to see what the government has on offer. we have to start from the outside and then move inwards. at the same time we also have to ensure that the areas that have seen development work are not hit by naxals , we have to ensure proper security.It does not mean we do not have to comb and weed out the existing naxals , it is a high priority task , but not letting their cadres grow is a higher priority task.

As for existing naxals , we need to cut their supply chains , nobody can fire a gun if he does not have a bullet, we have to identify the routes from which they get their ammunition and support and we need to block them swiftly and efficiently, at the same time providing our paramilitary forces with state of the art equipment so that their authority is not undermined and people have a sense of security when they are around.

 

[Yusuf]

Who has neglected the tribals of those areas? The center or the state govt? The states get their share of money from the center but if they don't utilize it efficiently then who is to be blamed? Why don't we see that those states infested with Naxals are the very poor ones like bihar and chattisgarh where for years the entire state was neglected not only the tribals. Andhra improved on the basis of both development and good policing. West bengal is a case of political opportunism.

Some one has to come up with a detailed report as to in what manner have the tribals of those areas been neglected and also is there any kind of restriction on them to prosper economically. Just by saying they are neglected doesn't mean much. That way the entire Indian nation was neglected by self serving politicians and still we managed to reach where we are. Only now are we developing some kind of a political will to take care of all issues including infrastructure and health care and education and employment.

 

[shankar]

now tamasha going in the media chidamaram asking 2 uavs and ak antony resisting it , his reply is we cant use weaponry against our own people