Naval LCA Tejas

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

lol. Mk2 will be used mostly for carrier operations .only 6 N-Tejas are ordered.
.
@jackprince
.
I am not talking of visibility but who will detect first. Again, carriers decreases the pitfalls of aircraft like range and payload cause it can travel toward aircraft unlike air cases.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

Tejas naval prototype to undergo flight test this month - The Hindu

Tejas naval prototype to undergo flight test this month

The second naval prototype of Tejas, the indigenously developed light combat aircraft, will undergo flight test in Goa by September-end, P.S. Subramanyam, Project Director (Combat Aircraft), Aeronautical Development Agency, has said.

Mr. Subramanyam, who was here to attend an Engineers' Day function, told The Hindu that the prototype would demonstrate take-off and landing at a shore-based test facility which simulated an aircraft carrier. With that, India would become the third country to demonstrate this facility. He said the Indian Air Force version of Tejas was expected to get final operational clearance by March 2015.

 

[biswaranjanrath.sipu]

Re: N-LCA: Indian naval fighter could have first flight by November

When will it join Indian navy ?

 

[Kranthi]

Re: N-LCA: Indian naval fighter could have first flight by November

When will it join Indian navy ?

In about 4 to 5 years.. hopefully. However these fighters will not serve on the aircraft carriers, but only for ground roles and for training naval pilots on LCA.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Re: N-LCA: Indian naval fighter could have first flight by November

In about 4 to 5 years.. hopefully. However these fighters will not serve on the aircraft carriers, but only for ground roles and for training naval pilots on LCA.

are you sure? How can u say that, do u have some source or link to back this claim?

 

[biswaranjanrath.sipu]

Re: N-LCA: Indian naval fighter could have first flight by November

Let's wait till the test flight of LCA np2.then will see what it can do and what not.

 

[Kranthi]

Re: N-LCA: Indian naval fighter could have first flight by November

are you sure? How can u say that, do u have some source or link to back this claim?

About MK-I not to be used on carriers ?
Actually, i meant not the whole LCA thing, bot the version currently under prototyping and testing, will not be used on carriers. Only MK-II will be used on carriers. There are many sources to assert that..

This one being the latest

Chander said that the flight tests are being conducted with LCA Mark-I to prove certain technologies and to familiarise the naval pilots with them. One aircraft is operational, another is on the anvil and a third will son be available to complete the trials. After that, for full weaponised operations aboard carriers, will come the LCA Mark-II powered by GE 414 engines, according to India Strategic.

Broadsword: Navy, eager for Tejas, placing orders for 8 naval fighters

Naval aviators can train on the Tejas Mark I, which is powered by the General Electric F-404IN engine. But only Tejas Mark II fighters, powered by the more powerful F-414 engine, can take off from aircraft carriers. The F-414's additional power is essential for getting the fighters airborne in a runway length of just 200 metres, which is all that an aircraft carrier offers.

India's Naval LCA Flies but Needs More Power

Making of Super Tejas (MK-2) | idrw.org

Naval LCA to roll out on July 6 - The Hindu

The main aim of LCA (Navy) NP1 and its Fighter Counterpart (NP2) is to prove itself with its technologies incorporated as a formidable platform, and to be a suitable replacement to the aging fleet of Sea Harriers at a later date in a derivative MK2 configuration, with a higher thrust engine and optimised mass.

All these sources clearly hint that NLCA -I is not for carriers ops but only for acquaintance with the platform before the actual fighter rolls out, and for use as ground based fighter.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

About MK-I not to be used on carriers ?
Actually, i meant not the whole LCA thing, bot the version currently under prototyping and testing, will not be used on carriers. Only MK-II will be used on carriers. There are many sources to assert that..

This one being the latest


Broadsword: Navy, eager for Tejas, placing orders for 8 naval fighters


India's Naval LCA Flies but Needs More Power

Making of Super Tejas (MK-2) | idrw.org

Naval LCA to roll out on July 6 - The Hindu


All these sources clearly hint that NLCA -I is not for carriers ops but only for acquaintance with the platform before the actual fighter rolls out, and for use as ground based fighter.

So Tejas MK1 will be used as trainer only? actually there is nothing bad about it. Single engined planes are not suited for Aircraft carrier, let alone STOBAR.

 

[sgarg]

The naval LCAs can fly from Porbandar, Kochi etc if not from aircraft carriers. Even 8 LCAs will make a difference.

Navy has always been the service most friendly to local products. I am sure Navy will come out with flying colors in the next war.

 

[Punya Pratap]

My two penny's worth :

In the future IN should have a squadron each of LCA Mk 1 (to be upgraded to MK2 standard in MLU's as soon as the 1st engine change comes) based at INS Baaz and upcoming INS Dweeprakash as air defense. I would be happy if they go for one each at Karwar and Vishakapatnam in the same role.... Two major advantages will be that HAL will have an incentive to lay out a modernised and dedicated assembly line that produces at least 10 A/c per year minimum and second would be that IN aviation will get a stepping stone.. after all flying Mig 29 K's after eons of flying Harriers is like taking an elevator. Mk 1 will act like a bridging of capacities as well as a very capable interceptor for the 2 far flung but strategic IN Bases INS Baaz & INS Dweep Prakash.

Another advantage will be that any weapon system attains maturity over the production period and not development period... This is my major grouse with IAF who are doing their utmost to torpedo Tejas by not supporting the Mk1 ! IN has always supported the Tejas and other indigenous weapon system and shall need interceptors to protect INS Baaz & INS Dweep Prakash for the time being and in future they can have long range strikers such as Naval AMCA or FGFA. Tejas will be the interceptor and cheap in both life cycle and operating cost not to mention the procurement cost.

Operating NLCA Mk 1 will also help IN understand the characteristics and develop their own tactics as per the Mk1 capabilities also they can give more feed back for Navalising Mk2 to be made to order the same way Su 30 was MKIéd !

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

My two penny's worth :

In the future IN should have a squadron each of LCA Mk 1 (to be upgraded to MK2 standard in MLU's as soon as the 1st engine change comes) based at INS Baaz and upcoming INS Dweeprakash as air defense. I would be happy if they go for one each at Karwar and Vishakapatnam in the same role.... Two major advantages will be that HAL will have an incentive to lay out a modernised and dedicated assembly line that produces at least 10 A/c per year minimum and second would be that IN aviation will get a stepping stone.. after all flying Mig 29 K's after eons of flying Harriers is like taking an elevator. Mk 1 will act like a bridging of capacities as well as a very capable interceptor for the 2 far flung but strategic IN Bases INS Baaz & INS Dweep Prakash.

Another advantage will be that any weapon system attains maturity over the production period and not development period... This is my major grouse with IAF who are doing their utmost to torpedo Tejas by not supporting the Mk1 ! IN has always supported the Tejas and other indigenous weapon system and shall need interceptors to protect INS Baaz & INS Dweep Prakash for the time being and in future they can have long range strikers such as Naval AMCA or FGFA. Tejas will be the interceptor and cheap in both life cycle and operating cost not to mention the procurement cost.

Operating NLCA Mk 1 will also help IN understand the characteristics and develop their own tactics as per the Mk1 capabilities also they can give more feed back for Navalising Mk2 to be made to order the same way Su 30 was MKIéd !

If Navy continues to support tejas, it doesnt matter how small the number navy orderd, IAF's efforts to stop LCA program would have no effects. how they bad mouth tejas is unacceptable!

 

[sgarg]

If Navy continues to support tejas, it doesnt matter how small the number navy orderd, IAF's efforts to stop LCA program would have no effects. how they bad mouth tejas is unacceptable!

Air defence of naval bases is must. It is not only aircraft carriers that need fighters.

Mumbai has a major airbase nearby (Lohegaon).

However naval bases in Porbandar, Karwar, Kochi, Vizag, and Kolkota need naval fighters.

I think Mig-29K will be the carrier borne fighter and LCA will be used for air defence of naval bases. The N-LCA can also be used for attacking enemy ships while flying out of land bases.

India needs a lot of fighters.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

Air defence of naval bases is must. It is not only aircraft carriers that need fighters.

Mumbai has a major airbase nearby (Lohegaon).

However naval bases in Porbandar, Karwar, Kochi, Vizag, and Kolkota need naval fighters.

I think Mig-29K will be the carrier borne fighter and LCA will be used for air defence of naval bases. The N-LCA can also be used for attacking enemy ships while flying out of land bases.

India needs a lot of fighters.

i know that mate. I was just saying that EVEN if the orders are not great in numbers, Tejas would easily survive if IAF doesnt support it.

 

[sgarg]

i know that mate. I was just saying that EVEN if the orders are not great in numbers, Tejas would easily survive if IAF doesnt support it.

The IAF has NO option. IAF needs Tejas far more than Navy. IAF has to retire remaining Mig-21 and Mig-27. These have to be replaced with something. Even Jaguar cannot soldier on too long.

IAF requires at least 10 squadrons of single engine fighters, irrespective of numbers of Su-30 etc.

IN is currently getting Mig-29K. So its focus is to get its pilot proficient in Mig.

N_Tejas with uprated GE engines will be a formidable fighter. I expect it to be as good as Mig-29K, probably better. So once this version completes tests, IN would have the opportunity to place big order.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

The IAF has NO option. IAF needs Tejas far more than Navy. IAF has to retire remaining Mig-21 and Mig-27. These have to be replaced with something. Even Jaguar cannot soldier on too long.

IAF requires at least 10 squadrons of single engine fighters, irrespective of numbers of Su-30 etc.

IN is currently getting Mig-29K. So its focus is to get its pilot proficient in Mig.

N_Tejas with uprated GE engines will be a formidable fighter. I expect it to be as good as Mig-29K, probably better. So once this version completes tests, IN would have the opportunity to place big order.

yes,they need it badly. But they dont want it. IAF has already said mk1 will only be a lead in trainer. So , until mk2 arrives, IAF would be in a mess created by themselves.

 

[sgarg]

IAF has ordered 20 of LCA IOC-2 standard aircraft. I think this is fair. We have to remember HAL does not have sufficient capacity to produce these planes. HAL is struggling badly to ramp up.

It is a local product, so ordering is not an issue. I doubt that line will idle once these 20 LCA are made.

The LCAs delivered to IAF are full blown fighters. They can fire missiles and can be sent on bombing missions. So IAF is free to make use of them in all possible ways.

It is logical that the first units will be used for conversion, that is training pilots. That does not mean these planes cannot be used elsewhere.

 

[Pulkit]

So Tejas MK1 will be used as trainer only? actually there is nothing bad about it. Single engined planes are not suited for Aircraft carrier, let alone STOBAR.

Single Engined Planes are not suited for A/C carrier......
What are the basis of this statement of yours... WHich actually appears to be false and a lie....

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

Single Engined Planes are not suited for A/C carrier......
What are the basis of this statement of yours... WHich actually appears to be false and a lie....

its common sense. Go and read about the light weight fighter program of USAF, origins of hornet. Before calling something false, try researching . USN was sceptical about a single engined fighter as a carier borne aircraft. And that was in case of CATOBAR. How do you explain a single engined aircraft to handle on its own in STOBAR config? And dont raise F35, its a next breed of fighters. Its engines are powerful enough to raise a 737 in sky. But even it is not suited for STOBAR ops. The british , concerned about the F35B's costs, at one pt. Considered F35C for QE-class carriers which has STOBAR config. They rejected C in favour of B as they were not satisfied with F35C's performance in STOBAR. Tejas has GE F404 , one of the most reliable,longliving engine, but completely unexceptional in engine ratings. MK2's F414 is more powerful,but not that powerful.

 

[Pulkit]

its common sense. Go and read about the light weight fighter program of USAF, origins of hornet. Before calling something false, try researching . USN was sceptical about a single engined fighter as a carier borne aircraft. And that was in case of CATOBAR. How do you explain a single engined aircraft to handle on its own in STOBAR config? And dont raise F35, its a next breed of fighters. Its engines are powerful enough to raise a 737 in sky. Tejas has GE F404 , one of the most reliable,longliving engine, but completely unexceptional in engine ratings. MK2's F414 is more powerful,but not that powerful. In emergencies these fighters can operate from STOBAR, but in routine they will not be suited.

I was not calling you a liar....
and its not common sense when you generalize the statement.....
When it comes to single engine fighter aircrafts I am also not a fan ....
Double engine aircraft are always safer....

but when you say single engine aircraft is not fit or cannot be or should not be operated on aircraft carriers its not true....

Secondly CATOBAR or STOBAR and both arrested recovery based,,,, one is catapult and other is ski jump based.... in both the cases lighter the aircraft better it is...
Single Engine(Keeping latest tech engine tech in mind which has made engine quite safe) are being made due to decrease in weight and cost mainly....

GE 404 is one of the most reliable .... but the change asked was due to weight to power ratio IN wanted hence 414....
Tejas with GE 404 has been operational at test facility in Goa ....

Its different from when you are operating in sea, but it do give you confidence to operate it......

What do you mean when you say F414 is powerful but not that powerful what do you think was wanted?
What do you mean by these fighters can operate from STOBAR, but in routine they will not be suited.????

 

[Pulkit]

its common sense. Go and read about the light weight fighter program of USAF, origins of hornet. Before calling something false, try researching . USN was sceptical about a single engined fighter as a carier borne aircraft. And that was in case of CATOBAR. How do you explain a single engined aircraft to handle on its own in STOBAR config? And dont raise F35, its a next breed of fighters. Its engines are powerful enough to raise a 737 in sky. But even it is not suited for STOBAR ops. The british , concerned about the F35B's costs, at one pt. Considered F35C for QE-class carriers which has STOBAR config. They rejected C in favour of B as they were not satisfied with F35C's performance in STOBAR. Tejas has GE F404 , one of the most reliable,longliving engine, but completely unexceptional in engine ratings. MK2's F414 is more powerful,but not that powerful.

Just to add to the F35 point ... I Hate F35 concept and I cannot imagine it being used by India at any point of time along with Rafale......
F35 was disaster the day it was decided that it will be single platform for all the types of forces.....
that means I cannot imagine how many requirements ...... and how many issues and how many compromises....


but thats my thinking ... still many companies backing it ... and many experts claiming its the best....