Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Killbot]

That doesn't happen in India.

What do you mean? That is definitely not standard issue.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Nope, the AR-15 platform is the best design for a standard modern combat rifle. Or something on the lines of the AR-15.

On the contrary ACR and SCAR / Bren 2 are the future...

AR aren't going anywhere though but 10+ years down the line... Things will be different.

If His rifle is a good ripoff ACR and perform well must be further refined and inducted. Same with SSS AK derivative or Carmel/ Galil for AK replacement.

 

[Killbot]

On the contrary ACR and SCAR / Bren 2 are the future...

Nope. Not nearly as modular. And bulkier. Guns like Sig MCX are the way forward.

 

[Flying Dagger]

What do you mean? That is definitely not standard issue.

Not standard but you will find many variation within a team due to ongoing modernization. A few are provided with new gears , it is slowly trickling down and will become standard over a period of time.

And individual buying off doesn't happen in India, you will need permission from your officer to do even minor changes which aren't appreciated.

 

[FalconSlayers]

How about Direct Impingement guns? They are more accurate, lightweight and cheaper. But are not reliable that much while gas operated short stroke piston droven rifles are expensive, heavier and a bit less accurate.

 

[Killbot]

Not standard but you will find many variation within a team due to ongoing modernization. A few are provided with new gears , it is slowly trickling down and will become standard over a period of time.

And individual buying off doesn't happen in India, you will need permission from your officer to do even minor changes which aren't appreciated.

Then why is that guy the only one with such a vest. I've never seen anything like that in the army.. I stand by what I said: he bought it on his own budget.

 

[Killbot]

How about Direct Impingement guns? They are more accurate, lightweight and cheaper. But are not reliable that much while gas operated short stroke piston droven rifles are expensive, heavier and a bit less accurate.

You said it yourself: they aren't as reliable as SSP guns. The weight and accuracy advantages provided aren't as significant. Unless they're really well made, they won't be reliable enough for military needs.

 

[Flying Dagger]

How about Direct Impingement guns? They are more accurate, lightweight and cheaper. But are not reliable that much while gas operated short stroke piston droven rifles are expensive, heavier and a bit less accurate.

They are cheap to operate that's the main advantage. Modern DIs are quite reliable and we will need to wait for the feedback from infantry how they actually perform in terms of reliability for them. Definitely not something which can work reliably in all terrain we operate.

 

[FalconSlayers]

You said it yourself: they aren't as reliable as SSP guns. The weight and accuracy advantages provided aren't as significant. Unless they're really well made, they won't be reliable enough for military needs.

Accuracy issues in CAR-816 being a Gas Operated Short Stroke Piston Driven get a bit compensated because CAR-816 does have a free floating barrel + free floating handguard (for less cost compared to other rifles of similar capabilities like HK416 or SiG-516). CAR-816 is a sweet deal. Its just a bit heavy like 300 grams extra.

 

[FalconSlayers]

They are cheap to operate that's the main advantage. Modern DIs are quite reliable and we will need to wait for the feedback from infantry how they actually perform in terms of reliability for them. Definitely not something which can work reliably in all terrain we operate.

If modern DIs are good then CAR-814 16” can be considered as the standard assault rifle.

Your thoughts?

 

[Flying Dagger]

Accuracy issues in CAR-816 being a Gas Operated Short Stroke Piston Driven get a bit compensated because CAR-816 does have a free floating barrel + free floating handguard (for less cost compared to other rifles of similar capabilities like HK416 or SiG-516). CAR-816 is a sweet deal. Its just a bit heavy like 300 grams extra.

CAR 816/817 cost was a shock in comparison to all other rifles and carbine fielded. May be they are too keen to establish themselves as a supplier to Indian armed forces and consolidate their standing in world Arms market.

At the same time their product quality isn't something we can be sure abt when we compare them to likes of seasoned manufacturers Sig or HK. That's the only concern from grabbing their offer.

 

[FalconSlayers]

CAR 816/817 cost was a shock in comparison to all other rifles and carbine fielded. May be they are too keen to establish themselves as a supplier to Indian armed forces and consolidate their standing in world Arms market.

At the same time their product quality isn't something we can be sure abt when we compare them to likes of seasoned manufacturers Sig or HK. That's the only concern from grabbing their offer.

Ya Quality can be a concern but still Caracal’s subsidiary Haenel’s Haenel 556 (licensed variant of CAR-816) was selected as standard issue of German army before it was sued by H&K for Copyright infringement for some reason. Quality may not be the concern as it is tried and tested by Indian Army plus once made in India will have full quality control.

 

[Killbot]

If modern DIs are good then CAR-814 16” can be considered as the standard assault rifle.
View attachment 72610

Your thoughts?

816 is better imo. Between the piston operation, free floated barrel, railed handguard, etc, it offers too many advantages over the CAR-814. And the cost for the 816 is quite reasonable as well.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

 

[Unknownwarrior]

What do you mean? That is definitely not standard issue.

These plate carriers were ordered in 2016 as per some reports... They are currently used by para guys... And SG.... Indian soldiers don't buy BPJs from their own funds

 

[Killbot]

View attachment 72854

View attachment 72855

These plate carriers were ordered in 2016 as per some reports... They are currently used by para guys... And SG.... Indian soldiers don't buy BPJs from their own funds

Let's see your reports then. Plus, all the plate carriers in the pics are Crye Precision ones or copies. And had SOF in them.

That dude was infantry. And that wasn't a Crye Precision Plate Carrier. It was a different model. Definitely not army issue. He definitely bought it on his on money.

And why can't Indian soldiers buy PCs on their own funds?

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

APDL Telescopic Sight

 

[Harbinger]

2 PARA SF weapons' display during Parakram Parv at Pune, 2018
I was present at this event & the commando did tell me that the gun is Indian made & the UBGL is Bulgarian.
View attachment 69996
I have been calling it an Arsenal AR for so long. I was wrong this whole time.
View attachment 69997
There are many with the Infantry too

Did they produce it's under folding version too ?
View attachment 69998View attachment 69999

The reason why I am asking is this, Arsenal SAM7UF-85 (Semi Auto Civilian Firearm)

But what we use also has a full auto mode.

Meanwhile Arsenal AR

Arsenal AR-F

With 45Deg gas block unlike above all with 90deg
But I can't see any gas regulator anywhere

Damn, this is so confusing.
@Harbinger

Sorry for late reply mate.
There are some variants of AR-M1 with the egg beater flash hiders in service with iraqi forces with a 45° gas blocks. They're the modernised variant of ar-M rifles. What we use in india is only ar-m1 and its variants. Coming to the infantry army men aren't issued the Bulgarian rifles. What they do in army is, they used polymer furniture (the standard black furniture) on existing AK rifles. So they look identical to the arsenal ARs but Infact they're Indian made rifles. Hope it clears out

 

[Harbinger]

Sorry for late reply mate.
There are some variants of AR-M1 with the egg beater flash hiders in service with iraqi forces with a 45° gas blocks. They're the modernised variant of ar-M rifles. What we use in india is only ar-m1 and its variants. Coming to the infantry army men aren't issued the Bulgarian rifles. What they do in army is, they used polymer furniture (the standard black furniture) on existing AK rifles. So they look identical to the arsenal ARs but Infact they're Indian made rifles. Hope it clears out

@Unknowncommando 2 also look at the dust cover of the AK being held by the girl in that picture, it is a "ribbed" dust cover, which is used on typical AKs.