Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
4,394
Likes
11,839
Country flag
IA requirement is for CT ops which mostly involves close in fire fights without any external fire power support. Eg CASO cordon and search ops.

While the pics involving foreign forces you posted are geared for ops which involves medium range engagement while being supported by heavy calibre firepower. They don't involve CASO , they raze the location with heavy fire power before moving in.

So one cannot compare the requirements of IA and foreign forces with regard to body armour because the fighting tactics are different .

The foreign forces are fighting in foreign lands they don't give a damn about collateral damage.

While IA is fighting in own country so have to close in to avoid collateral damage and also catch any pigs alive if necessary for intelligence.
This doesn't excuse the sheer lack of utility and functionality in this product, could have a heavy level of protection AND MOLLE etc.
 

porky_kicker

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
5,564
Likes
39,650
Country flag
This doesn't excuse the sheer lack of utility and functionality in this product, could have a heavy level of protection AND MOLLE etc.
Welcome to Indian way of things

Ever wonder why for thousands of years we are fucked inspite of all the achievements rated among the best in the world at every point of history.
 

Kshithij

DharmaYoddha
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
2,242
Likes
1,945
This doesn't excuse the sheer lack of utility and functionality in this product, could have a heavy level of protection AND MOLLE etc.
I would not blame heavy level of protection as that is essential. Also, the plates are removable. Lack of MOLLE is the only problem I see. But MOLLE also has its own disadvantage in carrying small devices like matches/lighter, compass etc. Also, MOLLE need not offer a significant advantage if the width of the magazines and other equipment is standardised. Also, the BPJ has backpack carrying ability or the ability to store water bottles at the backside.
 

sthf

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
2,271
Likes
5,303
Country flag
IA requirement is for CT ops
These are for regular infantry. The ones for COIN are already in service.

@abingdonboy Dude you are being too nit picky.

Information is too scarce to make an educated guess about the modularity of the system. The Western designs you showed have been critisized too, be it for their weight or for protection. In IA only officers and few others carry sidearms, practically a non issue.

Unlike US, jawans in India wear the body armour only if they want to. There is quite a leeway here.
 

jik60

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
104
Likes
358
Country flag
look at this comparison table presented before parliamentary standing committee. The product seems plausible to me. When it comes to personal protection, sometimes it becomes personal choice too, soldier can choose between 4 - 10 kilo bpjs according to his needs.
 

Ronish Baxter

New Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
4
Likes
4
What message are you trying to convey?
Every one in this forum knows that metal armor needs anti spall coating to protect soldiers from splinters.
He..he, he is trying to convey the message that he is the ultimate warrior...lol.
 

ALBY

Section Moderator
Mod
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
2,708
Likes
3,328
Country flag
1) AK-103 doesn't costs $2000-3000. It not a new rifle but a semi upgraded AK-47. Tavor goes for ~$1800 in retail.

2) Comparision between AK-103 and TAR is an exercise in futility. Differences lie in the calibre (7.62 vs 5.56), type ( conventional vs bullpup) and role (COIN in India).

===================

This is nothing but a Russian lollypop for Indians to suck. There are far better options out there than a failed attempt to modernize AK. Newer and much better rifles like Galil Ace and CZ 807 comes to mind. Former is waiting for orders to go into production at Punj Lloyd, Gwalior and latter can do the same if needed.

Morons at OFB are attempting to secure their jobs after PMO threatened them. If IA selects this, I swear to god I am going to file a bloody PIL in Supreme Court.
Price of an Ak103 is almost 1/3rd of CZ805 or Galil Ace.At the price of a CZ805 or Ace you could upgrade an Ak103 or Beryl to SOCOM levels including Holographic sights,telescopic stocks,forgeries,quad rails,etc etc...Just go through Youtube channels of Russian Spetsnaz to see the level of modernization they ha done to their Aks.
Also the spares are too dirt cheap,even though you may not need them in their lifetime for an Ak.
 

Anikastha

DEEP STATE
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
4,972
Likes
8,708
Country flag
This may not be right place place to post.
Why don't mount gatling gun on top of Army jeep's and Casper vehicles ?
These guns are accurate and have less recoil. Even IAF chopper's door gunner could use these guns.
 

ALBY

Section Moderator
Mod
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
2,708
Likes
3,328
Country flag
This may not be right place place to post.
Why don't mount gatling gun on top of Army jeep's and Casper vehicles ?
These guns are accurate and have less recoil. Even IAF chopper's door gunner could use these guns.
Galing guns and 12.7 mm HMGs are over kill,plus lots of extra ammo required.Cost is also another factor.Plus the type of threats we face is different from what NATO forces face in Iraq or Afghanistan.Mag-58s with better rate of fire,accuracy could deal with the type of ambushes we face.
 

Kshithij

DharmaYoddha
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
2,242
Likes
1,945
This may not be right place place to post.
Why don't mount gatling gun on top of Army jeep's and Casper vehicles ?
These guns are accurate and have less recoil. Even IAF chopper's door gunner could use these guns.
Gatling guns waste too much ammunition and provides limited accuracy. In war time, ammunition supply logistics is not simple. USA has advanced logistics and is fighting an inferior enemy. Hence they can use such guns.
 

cobra commando

Tharki regiment
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2009
Messages
11,099
Likes
14,394
Country flag
Govt goes Full-Throttle to make Kalashnikov Rifles in India




The government has firmed up plans with Russia to manufacture the famous Kalashnikov rifles in India for the Army, which now has changed specifications that allow AK-103 rifles to fit the bill.

ET has reliably learnt that a high level team headed by the Director General (Acquisitions) in the defence ministry and two representatives from the Ordnance Factory Board will be in Russia later this month to visit and assess the Kalashnikov facility.

The decision to send a team this month was taken following detailed discussions during defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman just-concluded visit to Russia.

India expressed urgency in taking this project forward, asking Russia to fast-track processes so that production can begin in India at the earliest. While Russia had extended the proposal last year, India could not take it forward because it did not fulfil the Army’s requirements.


AK101.jpg
AK102.jpg
AK103.jpg


India's MoD Delegation Visited Kalashnikov Group
 

sthf

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2016
Messages
2,271
Likes
5,303
Country flag
Price of an Ak103 is almost 1/3rd of CZ805 or Galil Ace.
1) There is no way of knowing that unless you have retail price of AK-103.

2) Cheap and good quality usually don't go hand in hand. If you are too broke, even AK-103 is expensive. Bulgarian AKs will come a lot cheaper than AK-103. This isn't the case for India.

At the price of a CZ805 or Ace you could upgrade an Ak103 or Beryl to SOCOM levels including Holographic sights,telescopic stocks,forgeries,quad rails,etc etc...
Bad argument. A budget is allotted for these things. I don't have information about that budget. You don't buy 10 Mig-21s for the budget of 1 Rafale. Not how defence procurement works.
 

Kshithij

DharmaYoddha
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
2,242
Likes
1,945
What I love about this that these jokers will have a lovely trip on public dime, inspect every innovation that Kalashnikov has come up in the past two decades and still choose AK-103 over its far better cousins.
Do you understand that India is not buying Ak103 but only getting the license? India already makes Ak47 and this license is to make AK103. a few years back, a person from Kalashnikov company of Russia had come to India and expressed disappointment at India manufacturing Ak47 without license! So, this license is not for capability of manufacturing but only to show respect to Russian IPR. Ak103 will be made in India, not bought from Russia after licensing
 

Prashant12

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
3,015
Likes
14,826
Country flag
Army to finally get better sports shoes after several delays


NEW DELHI: Having faced almost a decade of delays in meeting a crying need of its soldiers, the Indian Army is finally moving towards acquiring more reliable and better quality sports footwear to replace its vintage PT shoes, defence ministry officials said today.

The defence ministry’s Directorate General of Quality Assurance (DGQA) has given Bulk Production Clearance to Liberty Shoes Limited in March this year for providing 80,000 pairs of its sports footwear for extensive field trials.

“These trials are planned to be progressed with 80,000 pairs and is scheduled to be undertaken from August this year in four army commands,” said an official.

These four commands- Southern, South Western, Western and Central- will receive 20,000 pairs each as part of the trials. Based on the outcome of the trials, the procurement of the new sports footwear will be undertaken by the army.

But, the progress to reaching this point has been very slow, despite the fact that army troops are using thin-soled canvas shoes that would often cause or risk injuries. Physical training is a very important aspect of military training and the shoes being worn by the soldiers would cause undue stress on the body, explained officials.

A case for replacing canvas shoes with improved sports footwear was first taken up by the army in 2009, said officials privy to the matter. “Five companies had responded to our request, but animal rights activists had objected to our demand of a wanting a shoe with a leather upper and instead asked us to have it synthetic. The order was nevertheless retracted,” said another official.

In 2011, the army again took up its case for better shoes with a fresh Request for Proposal. As part of the procurement process in such cases, the army asks companies for their products, does sample trials and sends it to its field formations. After the formations give the green signal, then sanction is taken from the MOD for more extensive field trials. But the approval from the MOD for the shoes came after five years.

“The approval was accorded by the MOD in 2015 for procurement of 1.7 lakh pairs of improved sports footwear for wider user trials, before procuring it for the complete Indian Army,” said an official.

In January last year, two firms- Standard Gram Udyog Sansthan and Liberty Shoes Limited- were selected for the wider user trials. Before these trials, the firms send their samples to the DGQA, which puts it through a battery of tests to determine whether the samples meet quality parameters. If they meet the parameters, the DGQA gives its clearance for a bulk order and based on this the wider field trials are held.

But there were delays here as well. “The supply of any product is preceded by clearance of the advance sample by the DGQA, based on which bulk production clearance (BPC) is accorded. The BPC in the instant case took considerable time on account of repeated quality failure of advance samples provided by the firms. The BPC has now been accorded to Liberty Shoes for 80,000 pairs. The second firm is yet to obtain the BPC,” explained an official.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...after-several-delays/articleshow/64113735.cms
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top