Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[another_armchair]

Afair, the requirement floated was for 41,000 LMG's in the 7.62 NATO category with Negev emerging as front runner.

The order will most likely get scaled up to 41,000 unless we go back to our SOP of placing piecemeal orders and making a khichdi of our inventory.

More details here.

Many Bumps in Defence Ministry's Attempts to Buy the Right Light Machine Guns

Now, Israel Weapon Industries Negev NG-7 LMG is the frontrunner for the supply contract to the Indian Army.

thewire.in

The 16k NG-7's were from an outright purchase by IA under MoD's FTP. Apologies for mixing up the two.

 

[Tactical Doge]

10 years is a reasonable time span for a reality check.

what improved for IA infantry in terms of equipment since 2013 to 2023?

keep it to infantry wide changes, part of the standard kit all over the country, not theatre specific improvements and acquisitions, .
leave out equipment in trails or small/partial quantities or yet to be delivered.

some i could think of :
- uniform (in progress)
- MRE rations

I'd say 20 years is a reasonable time for a reality check

 

[ezsasa]

I'd say 20 years is a reasonable time for a reality check

if we take 2003 to 2023.

- general service vehicles and their engines have improved a lot.
- transition from 7.62x51 to 5.56 , SLRs have reduced quite a bit.
- comms equipment
- availability of spares
- road network in operational areas
- indigenisation of ammunition like RCL rounds.
- grenades, transition from 36M to shivalik.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

yes, MP9s are showing up more what they used to be 10 years ago.
16000 NGEV LMG would suffice for entire infantry?

As far as I remember drdo had plans to make lmg with sss and 2 more private companies sss was seen having an lmg blueprint in one of there vids on yt but no update ever after that

 

[Marliii]

Never change boys never change

 

[ezsasa]

As far as I remember drdo had plans to make lmg with sss and 2 more private companies sss was seen having an lmg blueprint in one of there vids on yt but no update ever after that

in this discussion, we are using equipment that have already reached infantry as smell test. at best we can stretch it to, equipment already ordered infantry-wide and deliveries are scheduled.

not taking developmental and small quantity procurement pipelines for this one.

 

[NotASussyBoi]

Never change boys never change

good enough for standarization across the country i'd say

 

[Tactical Doge]

in this discussion, we are using equipment that have already reached infantry as smell test. at best we can stretch it to, equipment already ordered infantry-wide and deliveries are scheduled.

not taking developmental and small quantity procurement pipelines for this one.

In that case
Average infantryman in Kargil war has remained unchanged throughout the years, M1974 helmet, just a load bearing vest and an Insas
All the newer shiiet gets to RR guys in the valley

 

[abingdonboy]

10 years is a reasonable time span for a reality check.

what improved for IA infantry in terms of equipment since 2013 to 2023?

keep it to infantry wide changes, part of the standard kit all over the country, not theatre specific improvements and acquisitions, .
leave out equipment in trails or small/partial quantities or yet to be delivered.

some i could think of :
- uniform (in progress)
- MRE rations

Sad reality that those posting pics of soldiers in their MKU helmets with fingerless gloves don’t want to admit-the vast vast majority of Indian infantry has seen 0 updates in the last ~20-30 years. They still run around with bare rifles, bayonets attached, cr@ppy boots, cr@ppy helmets with twigs sticking out, bare chest rigs (often empty)

on an individual battalion level there has been some improvement for specific deployments (RR mostly, plenty of units on the LAC/LOC are still WW1 spec)

all the modernisation deals signed since 2014 have been for limited numbers with the follow on larger deals never materialising (helmets, PCs, LMG, rifles etc)

Don’t even get me started on the FINSAS farce

i don’t think there will be meaningful force-wide upgrades this side of 2030. The IA simply doesn’t have the resources, >90% of their entire budget until ~2021 was spent on salaries/pensions, the agniveer policy can be b!tched about all day long but it’s the only way this pathetic situation can be unscrewed anytime in the next 35 years without increasing IA’s budget 10x (which can’t be done given the IN/IAF’s CAPEX intensive nature). Within 5-10 years the scaling down of the manpower footprint will translate but it’s a hugely uphill task and one shouldn’t expect drastic changes especially considering how hard the IA finds it to translate requirements into orders or even identify the basics that they need (not freaking jet packs)

Long story short, wake me up in 2040

 

[abingdonboy]

As far as I remember drdo had plans to make lmg with sss and 2 more private companies sss was seen having an lmg blueprint in one of there vids on yt but no update ever after that

From Sandeep Unnithan’s most recent ‘guns of India’ episode on the LMG saga it seems pretty clear that the idea is that the 40K LMG will be the FN MAG LMG conversion that ARDE-OFB has developed

not the most cutting edge of products but it’ll do the job

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

More specifically... The question is what is the transition of Southern command Infantry soldier from 2013-2023?

This is the latest pic of a Southern command soldier

 

[abingdonboy]

More specifically... The question is what is the transition of Southern command Infantry soldier from 2013-2023?

This is the latest pic of a Southern command soldier

Forget 2013, what’s changed since 1983?

 

[Twinblade]

From Sandeep Unnithan’s most recent ‘guns of India’ episode on the LMG saga it seems pretty clear that the idea is that the 40K LMG will be the FN MAG LMG conversion that ARDE-OFB has developed

not the most cutting edge of products but it’ll do the job

It is one of the competitors. Another being Negev 7 by Adani PLR and K12 LMG by Reliance.

 

[abingdonboy]

It is one of the competitors. Another being Negev 7 by Adani PLR and K12 LMG by Reliance.

Another long road to nowhere where they’ll be forced to order the Indian product after all other options become unviable

IA can’t even get basics like this into the hands of combat units but they’ll be dreaming of jet packs and exoskeletons, no wonder you don’t see many ex IA generals in the private sector post retirement

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

From Sandeep Unnithan’s most recent ‘guns of India’ episode on the LMG saga it seems pretty clear that the idea is that the 40K LMG will be the FN MAG LMG conversion that ARDE-OFB has developed

not the most cutting edge of products but it’ll do the job

Thank you was looking for this update can finally give rest to my copium

 

[Twinblade]

Thank you was looking for this update can finally give rest to my copium

Not happening anytime soon. MoD has extended bid many times for Reliance. The trials haven't happened. Both Adani-PLR and OFB have production lines as well as a proven product. Negev NG 7 should be an obvious choice as it is lighter by kilo and half than the modified MaG-58 by OFB and possibly cheaper due to more efficient production line and lesser amount of material used.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Not happening anytime soon. MoD has extended bid many times for Reliance. The trials haven't happened. Both Adani-PLR and OFB have production lines as well as a proven product. Negev NG 7 should be an obvious choice as it is lighter by kilo and half than the modified MaG-58 by OFB and possibly cheaper due to more efficient production line and lesser amount of material used.

We will forever be stuck at the pace we are going

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Forget 2013, what’s changed since 1983?

All thats required are:

Modern helmet
Modern BPJ+ Molle
Modern rifle

As a bonus for the sake of our dignity, they can make the camouflage match between all of them to avoid, you know, the African militia look.

FFS this is ALL thats required to bring them to the 21st century, and they refuse to do it. This isn't some rocket science jet pack or AI Augmented underwear that we're expecting. Every random military with more than a 10 billion dollar budget has already done it. I don't think there's a single army in the list of top 20 defence budgets that has soldiers that are equipped like 80% of our troops.

 

[Twinblade]

We will forever be stuck at the pace we are going

5.56x45 Carbine procurement
7.62x51 rifle
7.62x51 mmg
7.62x51 sniper / DMR
0.338 Sniper
9 mm pistols
Second tranche of helmets
Second tranche of BPJ
SDRs and ComTacs
BNVD/QNVD
Thermal sights
Optical sights
Combat boots
0.50 CAL HMG
Backpacks
Nothing is getting procured. Our industry can make all of them.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

5.56x45 Carbine procurement
7.62x51 rifle
7.62x51 mmg
7.62x51 sniper / DMR
0.338 Sniper
9 mm pistols
Second tranche of helmets
Second tranche of BPJ
SDRs and ComTacs
BNVD/QNVD
Thermal sights
Optical sights
Combat boots
0.50 CAL HMG
Backpacks
Nothing is getting procured. Our industry can make all of them.

The carbine drama has been going on forever God knows when will they even be purchased