Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[abingdonboy]

J&K SOG ?

An indigenous weapon? We know it can’t be the IA at least

 

[GigaChadBharatiya]

An indigenous weapon? We know it can’t be the IA at least

This is JVPC right?

 

[Flying Dagger]

This is JVPC right?

Yes it is...

 

[Spadex]

Does anyone knows the weight of SMPP jacket with all its components. Thanks

 

[Love Charger]

View attachment 196750
Doob Maro jo procurements krte hai Infantry Jawan ka bhi dhyan rakh lo

Are wo kisi ka dhyan nai rakhte, jawan to door ki baat hai

 

[Tactical Doge]

Does anyone knows the weight of SMPP jacket with all its components. ThanksView attachment 197099

18KG iirc

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

18KG iirc

Including plates I hope?

 

[Love Charger]

Sadly the problem is much more than simply procurement; procurement is a very capital intensive process. Even a simple combat knife can cost 10k.

But do you known what's cheap? Training; you just need few hundred rounds.

Just see how our guy's shouldering a full power battle rifle and compare how that French soldier is shouldering a whimpy assault rifle.
View attachment 196751
What's the problem? This same soldier is later going to complaint about high recoil on SIG. And ya; the classic folded sight shooting technique, how can I miss that.

EDIT : Just noticed the muzzle of SIG 716i is closed by using a cloth

This image is killing me.

Read Wellington experience book, it's by a American officer.
He mentions, cadets and instructors literally thought that they can win against USA.
That indian army equipment wise was equal to USA.
This revelation ends all debates and doubts, haha
Indian militray was equivalent of USA in 80 and 90 and rivalled them equipment.
The author goes on to say that indians were dumbfounded by iraqis losses in gulf wars.
Ask why, huge number of iraqi officers were trained in india, their pilots were trained by TACDE.
Indians were literally in shock when the realistion of our inferiority hit them hard very hard below the belt.

 

[DumbPilot]

Read Wellington experience book, it's by a American officer.
He mentions, cadets and instructors literally thought that they can win against USA.
That indian army equipment wise was equal to USA.
This revelation ends all debates and doubts, haha
Indian militray was equivalent of USA in 80 and 90 and rivalled them equipment.
The author goes on to say that indians were dumbfounded by iraqis losses in gulf wars.
Ask why, huge number of iraqi officers were trained in india, their pilots were trained by TACDE.
Indians were literally in shock when the realistion of our inferiority hit them hard very hard below the belt.

Thanks for the great reading recommendation

 

[Love Charger]

Thanks for the great reading recommendation

You will cringe buddy, while PMA experience book seemed better.
Other than their gravitaion towards more fundamental idea, and banning of alcohol in PA officers mess.
Pakis were never so delusional

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Read Wellington experience book, it's by a American officer.
He mentions, cadets and instructors literally thought that they can win against USA.
That indian army equipment wise was equal to USA.
This revelation ends all debates and doubts, haha
Indian militray was equivalent of USA in 80 and 90 and rivalled them equipment.
The author goes on to say that indians were dumbfounded by iraqis losses in gulf wars.
Ask why, huge number of iraqi officers were trained in india, their pilots were trained by TACDE.
Indians were literally in shock when the realistion of our inferiority hit them hard very hard below the belt.

That paper was an eye opener. I think/hope things have changed since then, and the old IA delusions have gone. But it was quite a shocker to know that IA officers used to have such irrational biases and not cool headedly analyze tactics and equipment from the west.

It also explains why paki infantry equipment took a lead over India from 2005-2015 despite their smaller budget. If you read the PMA Kakul paper, the author describes the pakis wanting to copy the Americans when it came to infantry tactics and gear. They did their best with the limited budget they had in trying to match their troops to US infantrymen.

 

[Love Charger]

That paper was an eye opener. I think/hope things have changed since then, and the old IA delusions have gone. But it was quite a shocker to know that IA officers used to have such irrational biases and not cool headedly analyze tactics and equipment from the west.

It also explains why paki infantry equipment took a lead over India from 2005-2015 despite their smaller budget. If you read the PMA Kakul paper, the author describes the pakis wanting to copy the Americans when it came to infantry tactics and gear. They did their best with the limited budget they had in trying to match their troops to US infantrymen.

While they didnt conduct as many as military exercises with foreign forces like us.
Still, things didn't bother us

 

[Love Charger]

That paper was an eye opener. I think/hope things have changed since then, and the old IA delusions have gone. But it was quite a shocker to know that IA officers used to have such irrational biases and not cool headedly analyze tactics and equipment from the west.

It also explains why paki infantry equipment took a lead over India from 2005-2015 despite their smaller budget. If you read the PMA Kakul paper, the author describes the pakis wanting to copy the Americans when it came to infantry tactics and gear. They did their best with the limited budget they had in trying to match their troops to US infantrymen.

Agreed sir, we now taunt them about edited BPJ on their ded guys.
But they were actually first army in this whole khitta who got pasgt style helmets and good BPJ.
While we are getting them only after mudi jee rise to power
Heck they even changed their uniform to a suitable pattern way before us, 10 years or more.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Agreed sir, we now taunt them about edited BPJ on their ded guys.
But they were actually first army in this whole khitta who got pasgt style helmets and good BPJ.
While we are getting them only after mudi jee rise to power
Heck they even changed their uniform to a suitable pattern way before us, 10 years or more.

The 2010s were an embarrassing time, when we used to see paki infantry universally have Kevlar helmets and basic BPJ's and Tactical vests, while our guys were running around with the same old tin helmets and 1970s webbings. Things have started changing only 2017 onwards.

People refused to even notice or acknowledge this here back then. Excuses used to come that these were just "photo ops" from the pakis, and secretly the bulk of their infantry was somehow behind ours. Made no sense considering every single video from their Ops showed all their infantry up to that standard, while all our exercises and Ops (except RR) showed otherwise.

 

[DumbPilot]

The 2010s were an embarrassing time, when we used to see paki infantry universally have Kevlar helmets and basic BPJ's and Tactical vests, while our guys were running around with the same old tin helmets and 1970s webbings. Things have started changing only 2017 onwards.

People refused to even notice or acknowledge this here back then. Excuses used to come that these were just "photo ops" from the pakis, and secretly the bulk of their infantry was somehow behind ours. Made no sense considering every single video from their Ops showed all their infantry up to that standard, while all our exercises and Ops (except RR) showed otherwise.

well, admitting there's a problem is the first step to fixing it. Hopefully down the road, sooner than later

 

[Blademaster]

Read Wellington experience book, it's by a American officer.
He mentions, cadets and instructors literally thought that they can win against USA.
That indian army equipment wise was equal to USA.
This revelation ends all debates and doubts, haha
Indian militray was equivalent of USA in 80 and 90 and rivalled them equipment.
The author goes on to say that indians were dumbfounded by iraqis losses in gulf wars.
Ask why, huge number of iraqi officers were trained in india, their pilots were trained by TACDE.
Indians were literally in shock when the realistion of our inferiority hit them hard very hard below the belt.

To be fair, the Iraqis hadn't exactly practiced or applied the lessons they learned in India due to the structure and environment they had set up back in that time. It was very much a soviet model which IA is not. I don't think you can honestly compare the IA to the Iraqi Army or the IAF to the Iraqi Air Force. Sure USA had a tech lead over India but I would daresay that IA and IAF would have fared far much better than the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Air Force and give US a very bloody nose and mouth and some heavy bruises.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

While they didnt conduct as many as military exercises with foreign forces like us.
Still, things didn't bother us

When taking into account the current and previous orders for BPJ's, helmets and NVGs, it will cover maximum 150k troops. NVG's are not even that many. There is not even a slight indication that they are trying to standardize modern equipment for 800k infantry, which would be proportionate to the IA's size.

Sig 716, which would have been an excellent service rifle has been stopped after 140k orders. The explanation being that SIG's are for "frontline" troops while the rest get AK 203 (Without the adjustable buttstock, and picatinny removed from the front handguard, so a downgrade of even the standard AK 203).

Once you take these facts together, a very troubling conclusion is apparent:

The IA considers only around 150k of its soldiers as "frontline" fighting infantry, while they think rest of the infantry is supposed to be some sort of auxiliary force. This begs the question why we need 1.2 million men in the first place, if only 150k will be modern infantry (that too semi modern by global standards). You can have a 500k army if that's the case, with 350k in armoured forces, Arty, logistics, communication etc while 150k are infantry.

In reality, this 150k "frontline" troops delusion will burst very quickly in case of a real war with either neighbour.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

When taking into account the current and previous orders for BPJ's, helmets and NVGs, it will cover maximum 150k troops. NVG's are not even that many. There is not even a slight indication that they are trying to standardize modern equipment for 800k infantry, which would be proportionate to the IA's size.

Sig 716, which would have been an excellent service rifle has been stopped after 140k orders. The explanation being that SIG's are for "frontline" troops while the rest get AK 203 (Without the adjustable buttstock, and picatinny removed from the front handguard).

Once you take these facts together, a very troubling conclusion is apparent:

The IA considers only around 150k of its soldiers as "frontline" fighting infantry, while they think rest of the infantry is supposed to be some sort of auxiliary force. This begs the question why we need 1.2 million men in the first place, if only 150k will be modern infantry (that too semi modern by global standards). You can have a 500k army if that's the case, with 350k in armoured forces, Arty, logistics, communication etc while 150k are infantry.

In reality, this 150k "frontline" troops delusion will burst very quickly in case of a real war with either neighbour.

Also important point. Every year IA is consistently returning money for CAPEX to GOI.

 

[Mangal]

When taking into account the current and previous orders for BPJ's, helmets and NVGs, it will cover maximum 150k troops. NVG's are not even that many. There is not even a slight indication that they are trying to standardize modern equipment for 800k infantry, which would be proportionate to the IA's size.

Sig 716, which would have been an excellent service rifle has been stopped after 140k orders. The explanation being that SIG's are for "frontline" troops while the rest get AK 203 (Without the adjustable buttstock, and picatinny removed from the front handguard, so a downgrade of even the standard AK 203).

Once you take these facts together, a very troubling conclusion is apparent:

The IA considers only around 150k of its soldiers as "frontline" fighting infantry, while they think rest of the infantry is supposed to be some sort of auxiliary force. This begs the question why we need 1.2 million men in the first place, if only 150k will be modern infantry (that too semi modern by global standards). You can have a 500k army if that's the case, with 350k in armoured forces, Arty, logistics, communication etc while 150k are infantry.

In reality, this 150k "frontline" troops delusion will burst very quickly in case of a real war with either neighbour.

Also important point. Every year IA is consistently returning money for CAPEX to GOI.

All this is a security threat in itself. People should be held accountable for the decisions made by them that has jeopardized the security of the country.

 

[jai jaganath]

Also important point. Every year IA is consistently returning money for CAPEX to GOI.

See this is the power of import lobby in armed forces
Let us import or we won't buy let men die and u take responsibility as military can't be questioned