Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Angel of War]

I have said one sentence many times I have been bashed for it and certainly I deserve it
But our army is not gonna learn until they are beaten in mordern warfare
I am saying it with too much of pain and sadness no ill feelings on forces but just feeling bad for lower level soldiers
Deeply saddened I will delete this in next 15-20 minutes bcoz some bin baap ke porkis lurking along with their new dad melechas
I am sorry for my statement

they can be bruised and battered to a certain extent but they can't be beaten decisively by either of the adversaries . I bet ya .
You need to clearly define what modern warfare is and look at our existing capabilities . How do you percieve modern warfare ?

 

[Angel of War]

Only God can improve the pathetic state of IA infantry modernisation, more like zoo emergency purchases. Only gun artillery arm seems to have a bright future, i wouldn't bet on any other arm.

You'll be better off to bet on corps of engineers and signals . We are the leading arms in the modernisation process , ahead of arty ofcourse

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I have said one sentence many times I have been bashed for it and certainly I deserve it
But our army is not gonna learn until they are beaten in mordern warfare
I am saying it with too much of pain and sadness no ill feelings on forces but just feeling bad for lower level soldiers
Deeply saddened I will delete this in next 15-20 minutes bcoz some bin baap ke porkis lurking along with their new dad melechas
I am sorry for my statement

Only God can improve the pathetic state of IA infantry modernisation, more like zoo emergency purchases. Only gun artillery arm seems to have a bright future, i wouldn't bet on any other arm.
But seriously, respective persons in IA should be made accountable to the state for the repeated dozens failure of procurement and should be made criminal offence of this decades of inaction in this front.
Just see the state of Russian infantry before and after, their modernization for the budget similiarly to ours largely bore some fruits and in our case we are at the same level as in 2010, the basic infantry that is, still strap based magzines pockets and guns seems to be issued largely along with some basic equipments like binos(old design as hell) and compass. Just look at the infantry coming out of chinook in pic ezasha posted, that is the situation of majority of infantry guys. So much for modernisation i guess.
Atleast IAF and NAVY seems to be going in the right direction and upgrading wherever possible in constraints of budget. On the other hand IA is cool with WW2 looking Guys on our side, DON'T they know WW2 like casualties won't be a good result in this modern war period, It would be interesting to know how IA would perform against a capable adversary like PLA.
Say anything but the equipment of PLA is atleast in very capable class.

Man, you two are blackpilled af.

BTW, most of the issues you stated are fixed or already in process to get fixed. Things cant happen overnight, I've seen a genuine effort to mordernise since the 2020 clashes with china.

We invested in MINSAS rounds for decades and now we are back to square one demanding NATO rounds.

Does is it possible to re work the JVPC to fire NATO round? Since I don't think we will get any carbine soon. a

Nah. The architecture doesnt allow that. 5.56x45 cant fit through grip by any stretch.

If we want a carbine, we can go for krinkov variant of Ak-203, will help standardise (like Ak-100 series krinkovs and ak-103). And since we will get production line and tech from russkies anyway, no need to pay hafta either.

 

[Angel of War]

Only God can improve the pathetic state of IA infantry modernisation, more like zoo emergency purchases. Only gun artillery arm seems to have a bright future, i wouldn't bet on any other arm.
But seriously, respective persons in IA should be made accountable to the state for the repeated dozens failure of procurement and should be made criminal offence of this decades of inaction in this front.
Just see the state of Russian infantry before and after, their modernization for the budget similiarly to ours largely bore some fruits and in our case we are at the same level as in 2010, the basic infantry that is, still strap based magzines pockets and guns seems to be issued largely along with some basic equipments like binos(old design as hell) and compass. Just look at the infantry coming out of chinook in pic ezasha posted, that is the situation of majority of infantry guys. So much for modernisation i guess.
Atleast IAF and NAVY seems to be going in the right direction and upgrading wherever possible in constraints of budget. On the other hand IA is cool with WW2 looking Guys on our side, DON'T they know WW2 like casualties won't be a good result in this modern war period, It would be interesting to know how IA would perform against a capable adversary like PLA.
Say anything but the equipment of PLA is atleast in very capable class.

You know the real problem in the modernisation process ? Instead of focusing on the individual infantryman we are focusing on building up communication , logistics , mobility and situational awareness capabilities for our infantry battalions but little efforts are being made to equip the infantryman on the same level. Imagine having advanced stuff like BFSRs and LROS along with SDRs but not having a standard infantry rifle . That's the issue

 

[India Super Power]

Man, you two are blackpilled af.

BTW, most of the issues you stated are fixed or already in process to get fixed. Things cant happen overnight, I've seen a genuine effort to mordernise since the 2020 clashes with china.



Nah. The architecture doesnt allow that. 5.56x45 cant fit through grip by any stretch.

If we want a carbine, we can go for krinkov variant of Ak-203, will help standardise (like Ak-100 series krinkovs and ak-103). And since we will get production line and tech from russkies anyway, no need to pay hafta either.

Many things exists bro if we see logistical issue wrt rounds in present scenario infantry modernization like good quality bpj helmets and communication device
Insas unreliability ofb plates, etc.
Most important training and methodology
Basically I am not qualified to speak but still by seeing videos in past and how other countries operate and train we definitely lag but but but actually do we know properly about their training we all have old videos or few clips on present day training but no concrete evidence to speak about it so I think must refrain

 

[India Super Power]

Deleted my post

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Many things exists bro if we see logistical issue wrt rounds in present scenario infantry modernization like good quality bpj helmets and communication device
Insas unreliability ofb plates, etc.
Most important training and methodology
Basically I am not qualified to speak but still by seeing videos in past and how other countries operate and train we definitely lag but but but actually do we know properly about their training we all have old videos or few clips on present day training but no concrete evidence to speak about it so I think must refrain

Do we lag behind US? Yes

Do we lag behind leading European nations? Yes

Do we lag behind our competitors? No.

And thats all that matters.

Insas - Army has also noticed, you are not the first. Ak - 203, an upgraded Ak-103 which is proven.

Helmets, Plates and BPJs - Being ordered. Older helmets, 9 mil ones being upgraded with patka style jugaad to make them 7.62 proof, seen in encounters.

Training and methodology - Here I agree. Though innovation in officers is encouraged, teaching is still mostly linear and solutions textbook based. Though this is from US army report, not Indian sources, so cant speak with authority.

Rounds - I see no issue if they standardise between 7.62 Nato and 7.62 x 54. Rest all is sorted in personal gear.

Arty can be a bit simplified IG, but rest seems fine.

 

[Johny_Baba]

We invested in MINSAS rounds for decades and now we are back to square one demanding NATO rounds.

Does is it possible to re work the JVPC to fire NATO round? Since I don't think we will get any carbine soon. a

ah well, if we go strict by JVPC design then maybe yeah but then it'll look something like this...

Interdynamics MKS in 5.56 NATO

or

AO-46 compact assault rifle in 5.45x39mm
...
...
rather going ahead with such ridiculous development from JVPC better just induct already available bullpup carbines like X-95 or so,imho...
or better, use that ARDE 5.56x45mm carbine to make a bullpup variant (sorry i didn't like that INSAS bullpup one that came out recently)

 

[The Shrike]

You know the real problem in the modernisation process ? Instead of focusing on the individual infantryman we are focusing on building up communication , logistics , mobility and situational awareness capabilities for our infantry battalions but little efforts are being made to equip the infantryman on the same level. Imagine having advanced stuff like BFSRs and LROS along with SDRs but not having a standard infantry rifle . That's the issue

How many of these "advanced" stuff do we actually have in our inventory, i.e. what is our holdings vs say a typical NATO/first world on a per unit basis? Im a little sceptical, when gear costing in the order of $1k is seen to be available, then what are the chances the gear that costs in the order of $10k or $100k is widely available?

 

[samsaptaka]

We invested in MINSAS rounds for decades and now we are back to square one demanding NATO rounds.

Does is it possible to re work the JVPC to fire NATO round? Since I don't think we will get any carbine soon. a

Why is IA asking for NATO round compatibility ? Are we a NATO country ?

 

[Marliii]

Why is IA asking for NATO round compatibility ? Are we a NATO country ?

Because we got a shit ton of 5.56 that can do same job as minsas so it doesnt make sense for going to a new round just for a carbine

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Because we got a shit ton of 5.56 that can do same job as minsas so it doesnt make sense for going to a new round just for a carbine

both are diff rounds. 5.56x45 is a rifle round, while 5.56x30 is a pistol round. However, like 5.7 nato, it is a very high velocity pistol round, so has good armour penetrating capacity vis a vis calibers like 9 mill ( but still much less than proper rifle rounds).

different purpose.

IMO for carbine, go for PLR system's X 95

 

[Angel of War]

How many of these "advanced" stuff do we actually have in our inventory, i.e. what is our holdings vs say a typical NATO/first world on a per unit basis? Im a little sceptical, when gear costing in the order of $1k is seen to be available, then what are the chances the gear that costs in the order of $10k or $100k is widely available?

in terms of surveillance capabilties and communications we have got a lot especially in the past 6 or 7 years . Each infantry unit has BFSR and LROS and now they gave drones too . They are getting SFDRs as well and signals detatchment with each infantry battalion is capable of doing EW as well. Mobility is being enhanced via induction of ASLV .

 

[Angel of War]

How many of these "advanced" stuff do we actually have in our inventory, i.e. what is our holdings vs say a typical NATO/first world on a per unit basis? Im a little sceptical, when gear costing in the order of $1k is seen to be available, then what are the chances the gear that costs in the order of $10k or $100k is widely available?

and please give up this comparision with NATO militaries . First ask the government to give us a large budget like them . Germany with an army of 53000 has budget of 100 billion Euros and here we are with a 1.2 million army having a budget of 72 billion dollars out of which a huge chunk goes into pensions . Try to get a hold of the situation . With the current budget it's impossible to equip them to NATO standards .

 

[SGOperative]

How many of these "advanced" stuff do we actually have in our inventory, i.e. what is our holdings vs say a typical NATO/first world on a per unit basis? Im a little sceptical, when gear costing in the order of $1k is seen to be available, then what are the chances the gear that costs in the order of $10k or $100k is widely available?

Compare with NATO when you are spending 700 Billion or even half of that, till that time look if we are full-filling our needs or not instead of dick measuring, Also PPE gear is subject to delays and allocation more than the other stuff. Good PPE is given always first to the Active Units then there is some hierarchy i am not aware of (The Unit in Seychelles for Exercise had better gear compared to one that went somewhere else) so i am gonna assume same goes for support gear like SDRs etc.

 

[The Shrike]

Benchmarking against NATO etc. is definitely required, it tells us whats the current standard/state of the art is and the cost of equipping to that level. From what I can see the Army does not actually have a coherent program to actually modernise the the infantry (something like the Russian Ratnik), all we have is a bunch of emergency or ad-hoc procurement that is sufficient for only a small section of the infantry forces. Does the Army even know what equipment it wants to or will be able to standardise - does every combat solider get PPE, do they all get nIght vision, do they all get scopes etc. They need to decide that first and come up with a $ value cost - and it wont be a small number even if we have relatively modest aims - and get the buy in from stakeholders to fund it (with-in the Army and outside in GoI). Else IMO we are not going to see substantive modernisation.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Someone on 4chin was saying Indian army looked aesthetic as fuck for some reason now I understand why.

 

[Love Charger]

Someone on 4chin was saying Indian army looked aesthetic as fuck for some reason now I understand why.

Sirji. Even if they just replace helmets with modern ones .
Aadha look to wahi ajata hai

 

[SGOperative]

Someone on 4chin was saying Indian army looked aesthetic as fuck for some reason now I understand why.

Sauce

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]