Mirage upgrade: To be completed within 10 years

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Should have done the M 2000 upgrade locally, it is very expensive from France

 

[p2prada]

It is local. I think 6 are to be upgraded in France and the rest will be done locally at the rate of one every two months.

 

[Twinblade]

Even for the ones upgraded in France would be partially upgraded locally under Phase 2.

Mirage Upgrade

"¢ Mirage 2000 Upgrade is proposed in two Phases:
Phase-1: Development for Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) & Supply of IOC Equipment by French OEMs (Thales & Dassault)
Phase-2: Development for Final Operational Clearance (FOC) and series upgrade of the fleet by HAL:
"¢ Integration of Buyer Furnished Equipment (BFE)
Six subsystems viz. Laser Designation Pod (LDP), Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation (ACMI) pod, Helmet Mounted Display System (HMDS), Crystal Maze missile (CM), BDL-CMDS and Operational Data Link (ODL- provision only).
"¢ Design and development of HAL Mission computer
"¢ Upgrade of two IOC standard aircraft to FOC standard.
"¢ Series Upgrade of aircraft.

Welcome to Aerospace Division of HAL

 

[hello_10]

i have favored to buy those Mirage2000-5mk2 which France would retire by 2020, specially Mirage2000N. IAF has very good experience on these aircrafts, no training required etc too with full infrastructure already, and France would happily sell it to India for less than $50million each, which they are replacing with Rafale by this decade......

also, India is paying closed to $2.1billion for upgrades of its hardly 50 Mirage2000H, + $1.0billion+ for infrastructure etc too, means this upgrade would well cross $60million each while its a 4.5 generation aircraft? while the Mirage2000-5mk2/ Mirage2000N of France would cost well less than $50million, with direct entry into IAF from now too, if IAF may negotiate it with France

I would favor to buy around 40 Mirage2000-5mk2, the front line ones of France, which would be arrived within 2-3 years from now, at a price less than $2.0billion :thumb:

 

[Armand2REP]

Should have done the M 2000 upgrade locally, it is very expensive from France

It would have been half the price if it was done in France and completed three times faster.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

My understanding is as follows: the exercise is being done in India to give the Indians some skills in integration of the many complex avionics and weapon systems, this will be of help while doing service and maintenance of the aircraft. Something like a PC Assembler also is able to do the Annual Maintenance Contract. But, personally, what i wanted to see was these guys in HAL selecting hardware and avionics from around the world - like an israeli radar, for example, and doing all the complex integration and interfacing themselves.This would have given them better skills, and kept the legacy Mirage 2000 airframes flying for some 8-15 years more. So, our people would have developed the skills, and saved cash. This is analogous to what our Navy has been doing on her ships. Please note: skills develop when we are forced to integrate different systems on our own, and no tailor made solutions are available, which is what we are getting from France. So, we lose both ways by paying high price of 55 million dollars per aircraft upgrade (new Mig-29 plane costs less), and our HAL smart and shrewd people receive tailor made solutions, like a coma patient on life support. Now, do you get the point i'm trying to make, Armand2REP?

It would have been half the price if it was done in France and completed three times faster.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

The Navy requirement of Sea Harrier was also critical, and when terms for an upgrade with British Aerospace (original maker and only source) and Ferranti (the much sought after Blue Vixen radar) could not be agreed upon, they did the upgrade in-house. New Radar, Derby missile integration, in-flight refueling and a better paint job,and new randome covers are apparent in the pics. Please note, navy had less aircraft and smaller budget (no economies of scale), and still got it done, hammering out solutions with HAL and others.

 

[p2prada]

My understanding is as follows: the exercise is being done in India to give the Indians some skills in integration of the many complex avionics and weapon systems, this will be of help while doing service and maintenance of the aircraft. Something like a PC Assembler also is able to do the Annual Maintenance Contract. But, personally, what i wanted to see was these guys in HAL selecting hardware and avionics from around the world - like an israeli radar, for example, and doing all the complex integration and interfacing themselves.This would have given them better skills, and kept the legacy Mirage 2000 airframes flying for some 8-15 years more. So, our people would have developed the skills, and saved cash. This is analogous to what our Navy has been doing on her ships. Please note: skills develop when we are forced to integrate different systems on our own, and no tailor made solutions are available, which is what we are getting from France. So, we lose both ways by paying high price of 55 million dollars per aircraft upgrade (new Mig-29 plane costs less), and our HAL smart and shrewd people receive tailor made solutions, like a coma patient on life support. Now, do you get the point i'm trying to make, Armand2REP?

It will be a mix of both, foreign and domestic systems. Twinblade has already posted on what we are adding to the kit.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

but at very high price, more expensive than a new plane.........

 

[p2prada]

but at very high price, more expensive than a new plane.........

It is not. PAF paid $80 Million per aircraft for the "cheaper-than-Mirage-2000" F-16 B52s and this was 5 years before Mirage-2000 price was decided and the F-16 is more or less obsolete compared to what's going on the Mirage-2000.

People here seem to be too spoilt by Russian prices. It seems high only because Russian stuff like MKI and Mig-29K are coming at much cheaper rates.

 

[Armand2REP]

My understanding is as follows: the exercise is being done in India to give the Indians some skills in integration of the many complex avionics and weapon systems, this will be of help while doing service and maintenance of the aircraft. Something like a PC Assembler also is able to do the Annual Maintenance Contract. But, personally, what i wanted to see was these guys in HAL selecting hardware and avionics from around the world - like an israeli radar, for example, and doing all the complex integration and interfacing themselves.This would have given them better skills, and kept the legacy Mirage 2000 airframes flying for some 8-15 years more. So, our people would have developed the skills, and saved cash. This is analogous to what our Navy has been doing on her ships. Please note: skills develop when we are forced to integrate different systems on our own, and no tailor made solutions are available, which is what we are getting from France. So, we lose both ways by paying high price of 55 million dollars per aircraft upgrade (new Mig-29 plane costs less), and our HAL smart and shrewd people receive tailor made solutions, like a coma patient on life support. Now, do you get the point i'm trying to make, Armand2REP?

Do you really think we are going to give a bunch of different countries our source codes? Not to mention it would cost you twice the money to integrate foreign hardware.

What makes you think the upgrade costs $55 million per aircraft? The final cost is 195 crore per aircraft which is $31.2 million.

Mirage planes upgraded at Rs 167 cr per aircraft in 2011: Govt | Business Line

That isn't a bad deal for getting a 4+ gen fighter for another 20 years.

As far as your guys gaining skills, it isn't worth the effort. Those guys will be gone in 5 years.

 

[drkrn]

It would have been half the price if it was done in France and completed three times faster.

but the infrastructure and experience stays here for long

 

[drkrn]

As far as your guys gaining skills, it isn't worth the effort. Those guys will be gone in 5 years.

not necessarily.if a pvt company starts its services in india their services are vital

 

[Armand2REP]

not necessarily.if a pvt company starts its services in india their services are vital

When does GoI ever let private defence companies thrive? In India that is a death sentence.

 

[drkrn]

When does GoI ever let private defence companies thrive? In India that is a death sentence.

may be modi will change this..

 

[Twinblade]

Saurabh Joshi "@SaurabhJoshi

First flight of upgraded IAF Mirage-2000 imminent, today or tomorrow, in France.
https://twitter.com/SaurabhJoshi/status/386051948480573440

 

[Ganesh2691]

1st Upgraded Indian Mirage 2000 Flies

The Indian Air Force's first upgraded Mirage 2000H fighter made its debut flight at the Istres-Le Tubé air base in France yesterday. The upgraded Mirage 2000 (effectively now the 'Dash-Five' standard), sporting a brand new avionics suite, self-protection suite, the Thales RDY-2 multimode radar and other systems, is the first of 49 aircraft (2 crashed last year in India in quick succession, forcing a fleet grounding of more than 50 days) that will be upgraded over the next seven years.

Livefist: 1st Upgraded Indian Mirage 2000 Flies

 

[Sridhar]

As part of the USD 2.4 billion, the upgrades of Mirage 2000 fighter jet would include-

1- New avionics, including an advanced navigation system, mission computers, Mil 1553 B data with Digibus, a pulse doppler radar that can find objects out to 70 nautical miles.

2-Two displays and an advanced head-down display in a glass cockpit.

3- Electronic warfare systems, including new radar warning receivers with instantaneous wide-bank receivers, an integrated missile warning receiver with continuous time-to-impact information, and new jammers and countermeasure systems.

4- Increased fuel capacity

5- Four Derby beyond-visual-range missiles

6- Two short-to-medium-range Python V missiles

7- Long-range smart munitions

8- Full mission simulators

Mirage 2000: The backbone of IAF to get a USD 2.4 bln makeover - daily.bhaskar.com

 

[SajeevJino]

.

The Upgraded Mirage 2000TI over France

First flight of the first modernized Indian Mirage 2000 H occured Saturday, October 5, 2013

Thanks to Olybrius

 

[p2prada]

Lol at Derby and Python.